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Spelltheif's Edge: Why / When to upgrade?

RuGu·3/24/2015, 4:18:18 PM·5 votes·1,702 views

I'm just not sure if it is ever really cost effective to upgrade this item. I'm not even talking about going to the Frostqueen's Claim, but the level 1 item doesn't seem worth upgrading to level 2.

The stats you get for the extra 500 Gold hardly seem worth it. If the primary function of this item is to help offset your gold generation then realistically there isn't a solid reason to upgrade (Unless you are Morgana). I feel like once I've made my 350 - 400 Gold back off of it then I'm just waiting to sell it for slot space for something more desirable.

Not only that, but it doesn't feel like a 'high risk; high reward item', it feels like 'This is the best gold generation early and i'm not planning on keeping it so I guess it will do"

Honestly I think it needs either a stat change or the items passive needs to be reworked to be higher risk at early levels.

Maybe it should start with 10-15 gold for the harass with 0-2GP per 10 and once Upgraded you get 5 Gold for harassing but better ap / mana regen and 4GP 10.

Anyone else feel like the item is just a bit off?

23 Comments

Deep Terror Nami3/24/2015, 4:31:24 PM2 votes

The longer the game, the more effective your upgrade will be the sooner you get it. It's usually a decent idea to upgrade to your tier 2 gold item early, as long as it doesn't delay your Sightstone or something you really need (like boots, if you need the mobility to survive).

AbiwonKenabi3/24/2015, 4:44:29 PM1 votes

I hate that I feel like I HAVE to buy spell thief's when on most support champions I would much rather have the active on Talisman of Ascension. Spell thief in general gives me more gold as support, but if I play someone like Annie, I end up getting Ancient Coin anyways: the active on Talisman is just too good on Annie for the speed boost/Tibbers and if you roam a lot as the support (again, Annie, or even Blitz) it will give you a lot more passive gold generation since you aren't just sitting in a lane poking people. I also like to get Coin over Spellthief's on sustain supports like Sona or Soraka since it gives health and mana every time a minion dies, not to be under-estimated when you burn through mana as Sona, or health in Soraka's case. And again, I just find the active so much more appealing and versatile.

Sailor Mint3/24/2015, 4:45:32 PM1 votes

It's a cheap gold gen + damage item for the laning phase. Sit on the Spellthief's until you upgrade it into a Talisman when needed.

You get combat stats during lane and the extra gold gen makes up for the fact that you're paying 219g extra gold for your Talisman.

Lwnt3/24/2015, 4:49:00 PM1 votes

I only go to tier 2. Then i just keep it until the end where i sell it to get my last item. I play lulu a lot so the active is pretty much my Q skill so I feel like their no point.

IcyPepper3/24/2015, 6:10:23 PM1 votes

Eh, I never upgrade it. In my opinion, the upgrades to coin are more worth it than spellthief's.

DrNova3/24/2015, 6:22:12 PM1 votes

I usually at some point sell it for a more usefull item late mid-late game. Rare is it that i upgrade it

Skia Asteri3/24/2015, 6:24:20 PM1 votes

Only when you will upgrade to the tier 3.

The sell back of item 3098 value is 200 greater than the tier 1 item. That means you need to generate at least 300 gold above what you would have to not come out behind after selling it relative to having not upgraded it. That is 5 gold each time you proc the passive, which recharges at a rate of once per 10 seconds. So you would need to expend 60 charges to get 300 gold, which would take a bit less than 10 minutes to generate in the best case scenario.

Until you sell it back, it takes roughly 100 charges or a little under 16 minutes and 20 seconds in the best case to come out ahead of where you would be for picking up other items.

It seems very unlikely anyone would come close to these best cases.

Laughing Fish3/24/2015, 6:31:51 PM1 votes

When using Sona: I usually start with item 3303, then rush item 2049, then upgrade to item 3098, then get boots, then upgrade to item 3092.

Kitten of Evil3/24/2015, 10:21:22 PM1 votes

I basically never upgrade unless we really REALLY need the Frost Queen active. There are better CDR items for a support -- item 3222 item 3023 item 3174 item 3165 item 3158 item 3504 item 3190

If I buy Spellthief's, I sell it when I need the extra slot. Unfortunately, Frostfang is terrible. At least Spellthief's and Frost Queen's Claim are both 80% gold efficient, while Frostfang is 66% efficient... what does that 500g buy you? 5 AP and 25% base mana regen, with a slightly stronger passive.

Ghiefelstein3/24/2015, 10:30:08 PM1 votes

Good point. I decide whether I should upgrade from game to game. I only upgrade Spellthief's if I need the stats for laning. In many games I feel like the 500 gold for the upgrade is not worth delaying my other items.

Poptart Evelynn3/25/2015, 3:03:33 PM1 votes

It's garbage upgrade. The only reason to upgrade it is for cheesing people with like Slow > Nami Bubble or Slow > Mogana Q. It's really not worth the cost otherwise.