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Riot: Talon and other AD Assassins that cannot Jungle or have a hard time "fitting" into the "meta"?

Altereph··3 votes·1,156 views

Talon doesn't work anymore, and I don't want to argue with the experts about the lack of counter play to a 1 second silence when the champion wielding that silence has no escape and little chance for survival if his single target happens to live. Talon is one of those underdog crowd favorites; meaning that everybody loves the idea of the character and the idea of his kit and flat out the way that he looks but people have had a hell of a time and have tried really hard to making him work or fit into the meta without ending up "just another body for the gutter" top lane and useless everywhere else as well Assassins have always struggled to prevail anywhere in the meta because people prefer mobile ranged damage dealers and tanks/fighters. Assassins are an awkward in between. They don't have as much range and when they get up close they relay on ability buffed autos and other abilities for damage and even still the got out maneuvered and out brawled by beefy fighters and mobile casters. But even still people fought like lions to create a place for the AD assassins in league and "Sometimes the underdogs rise and the mighty fall".... a couple squishy AD assassins found place in the mid lane and ruled there for a season by out playing mages who didnt know how to play against them.

This The recent nerfs to AD assassins like Talon have to stop by virtue of Riots word alone that they would focus on buffing weaker champions rather than nerfing the powerful ones. Aside from that fact and more specifically related to removing Talons Silence...You have just created a ridiculously unbalanced champion to which the following phrase has been coined " high risk, no reward." Removing the only defensive measure Talon had to mitigate any damage at all during his fight coming out in the form of a 1 second silence when there are abilities like 3 second taunts and charms and fears that silence and disrupt and forcibly move/root champions or otherwise make them completely and utterly helpless FOR WAY MORE THAN 1 SECOND is in no way, shape, form, disguise or pretty dress up, a balance. Especially when you give him a slow in return that only lasts as long as it takes for a human finger to react and try to move their champion away anyway....what about Nasus' slow that lasts for a decade?

Talon never worked, players worked their ass off ever since Talon was just a concept to find him a place in the game and you just crushed all that effort in a so called "balance change". Silences still allow the enemy movement. that is more counterplay than they get with a taunt. Even when Talon would E onto an enemy and pull off his full combo:

  1. The enemy better be squishy
  2. Alone
  3. Not survive the combo

If they survived and Talon had to hack it out for a few seconds after it became extremely unlikely that he would survive. Even if he did end up with the kill after all that time he is too low on mana and, is waiting on cooldowns and is far too screwed on escape options to react to other incoming enemy players.

Many Many Many Many Many Many players have suggested genius fixes to Talons kit but none of it seems to reach you. So on behalf of AD Assassins who are not playable in the jungle or top lane or bot lane and rarely see valuable gameplay as a mid laner I am posting this as a official inquiry as to your plans for the future of this long time struggling aspect of the game as well as if there is anything in the works currently for Talon specifically.

Awaiting your reply and Best Regards, Altereph

7 Comments

naql3 votes

I primarily play ARAM because I like it better. So, my comments pertain to that game type.

WIth that in mind, Talon's job used to be to get in and out, do some damage in the back line. Rake through the enemy like… well, a Talon.
With the removal of silence, that's a lot tougher. I used to chop fiddlesticks, now I often can't hit the vanish button quickly enough before I'm feared and dead. I can see where a 1 second silence 1 on 1 with a Talon in the middle of the Jungle in the other game modes might seem a trifle long, but to take it completely out?

Broken Talon.

Hayaishi2 votes

Good riddance.

Altereph3 votes

somebody is bitter

NovemberrRose1 votes

sounds like that somebody is you

Altereph2 votes

Not bitter just anxious about where the identity of the AD assassin role outside of the jungle is going and if it will ever exist in a meaningful way. Its the season of Tanks and CC. People want a Tanky top and a Tanky jungler IE Maokai, Jarvan IV, Wukong all tanky with good CC. They want high damage mids with good mobility and high CC IE Syndra, Fizz, Ahri. Then you want top tier ADC: Lucian, Caitlyn, Corki and supports: Leona, Blitzcrank, Nami, Lulu, Thresh, and Sona. These are champs with high output and high survivability kits....compared to this standard (being favored and having evolved for good reason) AD assassins have a hard time fitting in without being more of a team liability than an asset who can pick off a champ from the backline and maybe survive 4/10 team fight engagements because they lack the CC and escape tools that should come with the territory in order to get in do a job and get out. Ideas thought?

Xaneph1 votes

well put, I agree with what you are saying in general right here In fact as much as I agree with your Talon specific comments I believe this should have been the original thread post.

Not bitter just anxious about where the identity of the AD assassin role outside of the jungle is going and if it will ever exist in a meaningful way. Its the season of Tanks and CC. People want a Tanky top and a Tanky jungler IE Maokai, Jarvan IV, Wukong all tanky with good CC. They want high damage mids with good mobility and high CC IE Syndra, Fizz, Ahri. Then you want top tier ADC: Lucian, Caitlyn, Corki and supports: Leona, Blitzcrank, Nami, Lulu, Thresh, and Sona. These are champs with high output and high survivability kits....compared to this standard (being favored and having evolved for good reason) AD assassins have a hard time fitting in without being more of a team liability than an asset who can pick off a champ from the backline and maybe survive 4/10 team fight engagements because they lack the CC and escape tools that should come with the territory in order to get in do a job and get out. Ideas thought?

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Given how often a Talon will easily destroy people in ARAM, your idea that his opponent needs to be alone, squishy, or needs to not survive the combo is ridiculous. And the thing is, I'm someone that didn't really care about the silence removal one way or the other because I never saw his silence as being long enough to be the real issue when fighting him. If Riot wanted to break Talon's legs, it's not the silence that would cause it (And I still don't think it has) it's the stealth on his ult, that has always been the consistent way to kill a Talon, when he ults, use a vision granting tool and you got him.

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