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Kleptomancy is (in my opinion) not healthy for the game

Joneze··47 votes·5,188 views

Hey all, now I’m not going to pretend I don’t love kleptomancy. I love spamming gangplank whenever I can, and with the removal of t-lords this Is by far the best possible thing to take on him. I am bronze 2 not gonna beat around the bush here, I do not know everything about the game, being bronze II I can’t cs very well, I usually have around 60-70 at 10 minutes the most I’ve ever had was 87 least was 34. So can someone explain why I consistanty reach my triforce powerspike AT ELVEN TO TWELVE MINUTES!!! That’s fucking nuts for me, Kleptomancy gives far to much gold. This is only from my experience on gp keep in mind, I haven’t played any of the other champs that abuse it. GP is an extremely gold reliant champion, he needs his triforce and he needs his Crit/lethality (depending) so getting 5 free gold per q on a champion and up to 110 free gold FOR PRESSING Q is too much. Not even counting the utility of items dropped, you can sell them for even more gold, or you can just use them for free stats (temporarily) free base stats for pressing Q, a damaging ability. People have begun to complain about gp for a reason, people have been complaining about ez for a month FOR A REASON, kleptomancy breaks the game, if you cs well, you get near infinite gold thanks to consistent cs+ kleptomancy, if you cs poorly, whatever gold you miss is made up twofold by kleptomancy gold, I routinely make upwards of 700 extra gold off of q presses alone, the counter doesn’t even register item sales or gold pouches which I would say amounts up to another 400ish gold. All of this forgets the fact that GANGPLANK ALREADY HAS FREE GOLD BUILT INTO HIS KIT! And I normally take futures market reducing my TTT (time till triforce) even further. So, the only reason I bring this up, is that soon the GP witchhunts will begin, and if I know Rito they will nerf gangplank to the point that he dies. They fact that he’s relaxant in this 20 minute snowball meta is astounding in the first place. Gp is being kept relevant in a meta that goes against the entire design of his champion, and all because of one rune. Rito you have no obligation to listen to me, but I’m reaching out to say please. Please do not destroy my favorite champ like you did with Zac (rip zac by the way) but don’t leave him alone earlier like you have with Ezreal (reverting scaling back to when he was normal is next to nothing, he became op when klepto was released, not when you buffed his q scaling). I hope you will take action soon to regulate the abuse of kleptomancy, so that gangplank can live. He may be crippled but he will be alive. Just take the amount of gold per proc to like 3 and take the max gold from a bag to 60 or 70, if you can reduce gold generated for gp back to a point where he gets triforce only a little earlier he’ll be okay again. Please Rito get my GP off the streets, bring GP home.

55 Comments

Shahamut24 votes

Kleptomancy is not healthy for the game because it is a free gold/RNG mechanic that cannot be read or played around by the opponent. This rune is being taken by Nasus to give him better early game survivability and faster item spikes. Illaoi is already oppressive by design, but she can proc klepto off your spirit if she lands E.

Klepto needs a more clear purpose, and some kind of readability for opponents to play around. Right now, it just gives too much: free gold, free stats, free vision, free sustain, random skill point (?) XD You can even get Oracle's elixir.

The concept is fun, for sure, but it just isn't a fair rune in terms of how much it gives.

Dani El Pezglobo1 votes

Is not rng, items u get are related with lv, it justo need more clarity. Ex Lv 1--> Lv2->

Shahamut1 votes

Do you get the items/gold in a certain order? Can you "choose" what item you get when you proc it? Is there a set up to procing it? Or do you just auto attack and see what ya get? Heck, it isn't even gated by a cooldown. It's RNG because you have no control over which items or gold bags it gives you. It needs more than just a little clarity.

Dani El Pezglobo1 votes

its not rng, its pseudo-rng, lv 1 to x u get mana-heal potion or gold bag, u cannot get elixir of ability, i like this kind of rng, and i dont think the problem is that, the main problem with klepto is that u should use an ability and then aa to proc it, but champs like ez, fiora o gp can proc it with just 1 ability without aa, so they can spam it.

Shahamut1 votes

it's not RNG, it's pseudo-rng...

Aaaaaaand we are done. Not addressing this anymore.

Your solution to klepto is make it harder for everyone who doesn't abuse it to use it...

Klepto gives too much gold/stats through pots and isn't gated by anything like a cooldown. It has next to Zero predictability, so your opponent can't play around it. "Just don't fight them in lane" for melee or "don't get point and click harassed from range" are not points of counterplay, but that is the only way to counter klepto, is to be as non interactive as possible, so they get as few procs as possible. Hardly an interesting gameplay decision, and impossible to do vs ranged harass (GP) and the dumbest idea ever vs certain melee (Just let Nasus farm Q, what could possibly go wrong?)

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Funny how you fail to mention what it does NOT give: no combat stats, singlehandedly loses you the game if you DONT get "free everything" like you claim it doing. Skill point is very very rare. The best it gives are gold bags and the potions. If you don't get them klepto is garbage. A health, mana potion and a ward might be neat but not justifying taking klepto over grasp or an actual combat keystone. People heavily overrate klepto. It's not bad because it's "free" gold because it isn't. RNG makes this keystone too strong or useless THAT is bad.

Z3Sleeper17 votes

Combat stats? You mean these don’t give combat stats? item 2061 item 2004 item 2062 item 2011 item 2058 item 2059 item 2060

Shahamut11 votes

Thank you, saved me some time.

Shahamut2 votes

Also, the amount of gold you gain gets you your items a heck of a lot sooner, especially in combination with futures market. If that's not combat stats I don't know what it is.

ROX Prime1 votes

Agreed, i played jax into gp one game, i solo kiled him three time in lane even 2v1 when the jungler came. id say it was about 9 min dude walks into lane and kills me and im like WTF, press tab and he has a trinity force while im still on sheen, phage. i legit wanted to uninstall right then and there. gold is the ultimate combat stat.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Klepto Nasus is pretty bad actually lol. There are much better options.

Shahamut1 votes

Statistics seem to say otherwise.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Do they? I was moreso speaking from experience cuz usually a Nasus doesn’t want to hit his opponent at all cuz that makes he wave push.

If it works it works i guess. But it could also just be that Nasus is just generally good at what he does regardless of Keystone since he is basically just “Trinity Force, the champion”.

Edit: just looked it up. He basically uses literally everything. Grasp, Aery, Comet, SS and Klepto. Must be matchup dependant.

Shahamut1 votes

It's the free sustain from potions and the extra 100 HP from celestial body, in combination with taking futures market and a gold income item level 1. His early game survivability is insanely better, when you are supposed to be bullying him. Takes Resolve second and bam, more HP/sustain.

I'm not saying it makes Nasus OP. He is still killable in a coordinated effort, but soloqueue is anything but coordinated XD

Elycian1 votes

{quoted}

Do they? I was moreso speaking from experience cuz usually a Nasus doesn’t want to hit his opponent at all cuz that makes he wave push.

If it works it works i guess. But it could also just be that Nasus is just generally good at what he does regardless of Keystone since he is basically just “Trinity Force, the champion”.

Edit: just looked it up. He basically uses literally everything. Grasp, Aery, Comet, SS and Klepto. Must be matchup dependant.

I play nasus with grasp and klepto and i have found that hitting them with grasp and an occasional Q early game is quite good, even if you lose the trade you have life steal (or extra pots and stuff from klepto) and having them low on hp makes it really easy for you jungler to gank or avoid getting tower dived. If the enemy is also htiting you they pull minion aggro so wave management is not that hard.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Yeah it’s good when you aren’t sacrificing wave management for it. But if the opponent chooses to use non-minion aggro type harass or ranged bush aggro-droppig harass then attacking them just puts you at a disadvantage.

But yeah, it doesn’t matter if the opponent doesn’t know how to play against Nasus and tries to harass you in the wave to “deny stacks” lol. What is it, 7 years now? And most people still don’t know how to lane vs Nasus.

Shahamut1 votes

I notoriously destroy Nasus at my Elo with wave management and bully tactics as Renekton. But can't do it when he runs Klepto. The extra 100 HP and potions he gets from trades just kill my advantage.

I'm still good till first back though. Then the extra gold and futures market get him that sheen plus armor item and he slowly starts winning the trades.

1Maza3 votes

k l e p t o g p i s a n o o b t r a p

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Depends on the matchup. If you are trying to bully someone Aery is leagues better. But if you know you can’t bully them out you just take klepto to outscale.

I’ve also found Glacial to be extremely effective since it grants the melee version of the slow.

1Maza1 votes

{quoted}

Depends on the matchup. If you are trying to bully someone Aery is leagues better. But if you know you can’t bully them out you just take klepto to outscale.

I’ve also found Glacial to be extremely effective since it grants the melee version of the slow.

I don't play gp myself, but almost every pro/high-elo player i've heard talk about him says Aery if you win the lane, Grasp if you don't. And if you're in a losing lane trying to scale, shouldn't you be using your Q to farm faster instead of walking close enough to the enemy that beats you 1v1 to get a Klepto proc? His Q gives extra gold anyway on minions, why put yourself at risk for a consumable that may or may not drop, and may or may not be worth it even if it does?

Edit: Realized by "can't bully them out" you probably meant tanks, not champs that beat you all in. Klepto does make sense here, though I still think I'd prefer Grasp for the sustain, especially after laning phase because it scales and pots don't, and considering the absurd amount of damage tanks are doing rn. But I see a little more of where you're coming from in that case.

SithesisLord1 votes

Hardly. It´s just better taken into tank matchups. Against people that can actually retaliate, Aery or Grasp are better. Heck, if you can hit most of your barrels, even Meteor is better.

UnknownTerritory2 votes

You basically earn gold for every hit on the enemy. And its not healthy for the game because - The game gives you gold per second,minions also give you gold,kills and assist too - Thats so much gold + the rune. You get ahead by just poking the enemy

Z3Sleeper1 votes

The 5g is hardly the issue. You’re lucky if you manage to proc it enough to get over 150g from that alone.

UnknownTerritory1 votes

Thanks for the minus :)

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Wasn’t me, I don't do petty downvotes.

LordForrest2 votes

I have said this before, but the best way to solve the Ezreal and GP abuse of Klepto would be to give it the tiamat treatment.

By that I mean put a small internal timer on the proc so they have to do a separate attack to get the proc. It would remove the safety that they have and bring the risk the rune is suppose to have back.

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

Ha i already started the witch hunt for klepto gp already. Its not kleptomancys either though, its because of how gp q applies on hit effects that makes this keystone obnoxious on him. I say nerf GP's range or limit what on hit effects he can apply aka not kleptomancy.

Also nasus players are not running kleptomancy. That sounds awful on him.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

I can 100% guarantee you that 11-12 minutes has ALWAYS been the time a GP would get trinity if the game went let's say decent. Meaning strong farm and maybe a kill or several assists with ult. This oh how overpowered GP is with klepto is so blown out of proportion. This meta heavily suits him and he can spam Q all day on tanks and the very weak fighters right now when you would immediately get jumped on for doing that. Problem with klepto is the HEAVY rng that can give you several hundred gold in bags early in the laning phase or throw 20 useless mana potions at you singlehandedly winning you the game by RNGesus or in the other case losing you the game because it literally has no benefit otherwise. With old TLD i could atleast duel top and midlane and get kills and get fed. Klepto makes your laning completely non existent and literally turns you into a Q bot. The moment fighters actually get good again GP vanishs back to only mains playing him but knowing this stupid community and riot GP will get nerfed, klepto will get nerfed and he is left in the dust. Grasp btw is the better keystone on him statwise. Maybe grasp should get nerfed first but no it's klepto because the community has no brain and just repeats what is popular. in that regard klepto is actually balanced since it's a heavy gamble to pick it. Either you are lucky and do well with it or RNGesus is not on your side and you have no combat keystone and get no value out of it. Grasp is always grasp. Bruiserplank is fairly popular and grasp helps with that.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

There’s actually not a single klepto proc (besides wards to some extent) that GP does not utilize.

Sorc gives +25 true damage each Q plus increased healing from W and insane mana regen. Iron gives health and who doesn’t use that. Mana potions let him spam Q even more.

Getting 20 mana pots is a godsend for GP. Removes the intended counterplay to his Q poke which is supposed to be his mana pool.

D357R0Y3R1 votes

{quoted}

There’s actually not a single klepto proc (besides wards to some extent) that GP does not utilize.

gp totally wants his hitbox as a squishy melee champion to be increased by iron elixir

said no one ever

{quoted}

Getting 20 mana pots is a godsend for GP. Removes the intended counterplay to his Q poke which is supposed to be his mana pool.

the intended counterplay to gp isn't his mana pool, it's the fact that he's shit against mobile bruisers and int everytime he tries to Q them

unlike pantheon

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Uh, GP actually beats a ton of Bruisers in a melee scrap due to his passive and W.

His counterplay and pantheons have always been to outlast their mana pools. Which is why people would take defensive items against then to outlive the harass. They don’t take damage items and all-in him because not only is he still strong at melee range, he can also just kite away with passive and W.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

{quoted}

Uh, GP actually beats a ton of Bruisers in a melee scrap due to his passive and W.

he doesn't There isn't a single bruiser that gp beats in 1v1

his passive has like 20 sec cd you can reset it with barrels but it doesn't matter because they take too much time to detonate

and speaking of W it also has like 20 sec cd, or even more

{quoted}

His counterplay and pantheons have always been to outlast their mana pools.

that's not a counterplay

a counterplay is something the enemy does to avoid damage from an enemy in order to beat him

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Counterstrat*. There’s no real counterplay to click target harass, which is why the strat was to mitigate enough to where they’d run out of mana if they spammed it while you’d still be healthy.

And don’t underestimate GP’s melee retaliation. It’s quite nasty and the passive and W help him disengage or get into a position to punish his now dashless opponent with more Q’s as they retreat.

SithesisLord1 votes

he doesn't There isn't a single bruiser that gp beats in 1v1

GraspPlank would like a word.

XDDD1 votes

Don't ever put counterplay and Pantheon in the same sentence unless you're stating he has none.

SithesisLord1 votes

gp totally wants his hitbox as a squishy melee champion to be increased by iron elixir squishy melee champion squishy melee squishy

said no one ever

BruiserPlank would like a word.

Joneze1 votes

Just sell the mana potions... I mention that above, 20 mana potions you say? For 30 gold each that’s... 600 gold!!! that’s still far too much free gold. Let’s say you get a more reasonable number of 10 mana pots, that’s still 200 gold l, and if you use 2 for free sustain ( W gives health, mana pots give mana to cast W) you still get 160 free gold. And you can stay in lane longer, resulting in more cs, so more gold, and increasing the possibility that your lane opponent will stay too long and get low enough for you to kill them for more gold. The items are incredible in that you can sell them or use them.

Andrey03451 votes

20 mana potions you say? For 30 gold each that’s... 600 gold!!!

10 mana pots, that’s still 200 gold

Elycian1 votes

Wait till bruisers get a real keystone and he can't even walk to lane. Or wait till they bring a slower meta where everyone gets to late game 6 ítems and klepto gives nothing damage wise like electrocute or grasp does

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Klepto is actually great late game. When you have 6 items you just randomly have elixirs pop up granting you random effects.

The best one is when you have no hp but are saved by a clutch elixir of iron.

Every elixir is extremely strong and lategame you have a much higher chance of having all 3 up permanently PLUS whatever elixir you buy.

I don’t think anyone can say having +15% lifesteal, 25 true damage on-hit, massive mana regen, bonus health, 25% tenacity and a bunch of bonus AD+AP is bad late game even compared to other keystones.

50Shades0fTrynda1 votes

quite opposite, it is.

good post

Joneze1 votes

Now, I understand the argument that usually gp would get triforce around 11-12 minutes if he did well. But I am an incredibly mediocre gp, you saw my cs numbers listed above, I almost never get early kills, and I only ever get a few assists. By all rights I should not get my core item on my second back. For a player such as I that seems wrong, maybe on a better player that is normal. The only difference between me with klepto and a good go without klepto is klepto itself, as such I am fairly certain this is the deciding factor.

MetalGearTeemo1 votes

I for one enjoy losing all momentum in top lane because the guy backs and comes back with his bramble, or dirk way early, how did he get that... oh, right. He's gotten 3 items with klepto and earned 225 extra gold because RNG.

Pæan1 votes

Perhaps if we make it like the Coins that drop from minions when you have item 3301 . So the Klepto user has to commit to grabbing that item and it gives the opponent time to either punish the person walking out to get the item or to maybe crush it like a Zac passive blob.

Piper111 votes

I think that maybe it needs to be toned down a little regarding the actual hp/mp buffs it can give because that can completely change the laning phase for specific characters, which could alter the entire game.

I feel that only a few characters actually make a good use of this, and it really only works well if you're in a ranged v melee match. If you're both playing ranged or melee I feel like this rune is less effective, and gets outranked by the other runes around the mid game.

I know to a lot of people it seems like it's OP because players can obviously see exactly what rewards they get from taking the rune, but I feel that other runes are much more powerful.

IE: the relentless hunter rune, imo, is one of the most powerful runes in the game. Getting to a counter gank a few seconds before or after a key event can completely swing a game. I've won games based completely on this run getting me into position quickly, and I feel that it's due for a nerf.

DeusVult1 votes

Klepto in theory is a decent rune. In practice it is terrible for the health of the game though. RNG item drops that can give you huge momentary power spikes that the enemy cannot anticipate or play around, the champs that are strong with it (ez, GP) break it, whereas everyone else is just ok with it.

If klepto is to remain in this game, it needs the RNG removed for one, and to be balanced around ez and GP, as if it gets nerfed because of them, no one else will use it, but nerfing Ez or GP BECAUSE OF kelpto is wrong as they can run other runes.

Start off by removing the items that klepto "sometimes" gives. Too much RNG. If they want to keep it, then limit it to solely the gold bags. Increase the gold per hit to compensate. About 1-2 gold. Not much. Then change how the top 2 champs who use this rune use it. Code in that ez cannot proc klepto on his Q. He can still Q-auto for the proc, he can still proc on hits with Q, but not klepto. It breaks him too much. Then you go to GP. Increase his Q mana cost to 70-80. If GP kills a target or barrel with Q, his mana cost is refunded so that he only spent 30 mana. This is because atm he runsitem 3303 or item 1056 for mana regen, spams Q on opponent and wins lane because of damage/gold generation. Plus he scales more than most top laners. With his first purchase almost always being sheen, he continues to win lane due to having more mana, CDR and Q hitting harder from a 1050g item. Make GP choose between using Q to farm and scale or to trade.

Thats just my 2 cents on klepto as if you take away its RNG it could be fine.

SithesisLord1 votes

Then you go to GP. Increase his Q mana cost to 70-80. If GP kills a target or barrel with Q, his mana cost is refunded so that he only spent 30 mana.

And result in GP having to buy Tear of the Goddess as a first back while cancers like Jayce get to run around without having mana issues. Or making people stack unconnected barrels just for the refund because they don´t cost mana. Good suggestion. His mana isn´t the issue. Kleptomancy alone is the issue.

This is because atm he runs item 3303 or item 1056 for mana regen, spams Q on opponent and wins lane because of damage/gold generation.

Actually, running Mana Crystal as start item is objectively better because his adaptive bonus still becomes AD. Then rush enough gold for Sheen and Ancient Coin.

Besides, a GP that is spamming Q on an enemy champion is a GP that is having to farm minions with AAs, thus not getting bonus gold from Plunder and Silver Serpents for ult upgrades.

Kleptomancy GP is good only on certain matchups. But on the majority of them, it is very overrated because Aery and Grasp exist, which is why Kleptomancy is taken on tank matchups, where GP can spam Q without retaliation or with minimum retaliation.

Into matchups that can fight back and punish him for his rune choice alone, Aery or Grasp are better because it strengths his poke.

Basically Klepto is for earlier powerspikes and into tank matchups.

Aery/Comet or Grasp for safer laning and into matchups he would lose lane to had he not picked either one of those three.

warmcorntortilla1 votes

I started wheezing at TTT (time till triforce)

Plastic 5 ADC1 votes

I like it, because Riot is trying out completely new things, and analyze how it works.

In my opinion it's a cool mechanic and it's not too unpopular on too much champs.

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