Zed counter - convince me against this

Flygunn··1 votes·1,203 views

Alright, I am going to start this out with a bang... Galio Galio. I consider him to be the greatest Zed zed counter for many reasons. The general consensus is divided on Galio being trash or highly situational, however I think hes great as a first pick.

First off his passive, many people complain that if the enemy team is heavy ad, galio cannot do anything, however they forget that a heavy ad team makes it much easier for your team. On Galio, you will build item 3001 Abyssal Scepter for the 60 mr, 90 ap (60 + 30 from passive), 10% cdr, and a 10% magic dmg bonus to all enemies within about the range of your ult, and item 3065 spirit visage for 500 health, 55 mr (27.5 ap from passive), 10% cdr, 200% regen, and a 25% boost to all incoming heals (extremely good combo with his passive, ult, and w). This is extremely good use of your passive for items that you would build even if there was no ap on the enemy team. 117.5 ap, 115 mr, 500 hp, 20% cdr, 200% regen, and an extra 10% dmg enemies take from ap.

I am putting his e before his q because it is easier to explain this way. Most peoples issue with the e is that it is meant for increased speed, but cancels movement. This can be annoying when trying to escape, however this isnt how you should use it in the first place. Get item 3116 Rylai's crystal scepter (400 hp, 100 ap, slow on spell hit) and e an enemy, the enemy is slowed and you use the speed boost to get a little closer to be able to q them. q is difficult to miss at close range, and your opponent will be slowed. then you q to slow them more, and easily escape because both your q and rylai's slows them. another reason for e first is that sometimes people will use a skill to evade, meaning you can punish them with q which does more damage. if you miss your e, don't worry, its a poke, not an all in, you most likely will not be punished, especially if you still have q up. This makes for a safe poke with a decent sum of damage, an easy way to set up a trade, or a way to ult without flashing, but your ult will probably will be saved for something else, I will get to that.

His q is annoying to land at long range, and doesn't have the cheapest mana cost. Most people look at the damage on this and assume you have to poke with this. That would be a mistake, as I mentioned before, it is better to poke with e unless you are confident with your aim and their inability to evade, and since your first item will usually be item 3070 Tear of the goddess, mana will not be an issue. Q is best at close quarters because of its decent AoE, and better aim. This is your prime damage. when escaping, use q on your chaser, they will either have to sidestep to evade, thus making distance between you , or be hit by its massive slow coupled with rylai's, use e to either slow them further, or give yourself a speed boost, based on the situation. Most of q has already been discussed with e's section because Galio actually combos well.

Next is Galio's w, a buff to mr and Armour to whomever he wishes, while adding an effect that heals Galio each time damage is taken. This move is the bread and butter of his ult, building item 3075 thornmail along with the boost to defenses makes hitting galio with an auto unfavourable enough without the fact it that it will probably heal him. Galio can pop this on whoever is being targeted to give them extra sustain, while healing galio. All in all, its a skill most supports or tanks would kill for (especially galio and rammus).

And finally for the ult. His r after a small amount of time will channel a Nunu nunu absolute zero that taunts all enemies and gains damage for damage taken. this is extremely useful for teamfights and 1v1ing. I usually use this to stop people from escaping to their tower when all-in-ing because it pulls them away from their turret towards you and your rylais will slow them afterwards. Popping w on you before hand with both thornmail and spirit visage, you will probably be healing profitably while your opponent is taking decent damage before they take massive damage from your ult's activation. your ult under a turret is devastating, the opponent will be dealing either little damage or healing you while a turret focuses them. Galio is best mid because you rarely see auto attack based champs there, thus it will hurt them when auto-attacks are all they can do. Galio's ult gives your opponents a small fraction of a second to apply cc to end it. Blitzcrank Blitzcrank might charge e to end it with an auto, Braum braum could begin his stacks, etc. this is one of the few counter plays, and even those have their own counter plays. if you force them to use cc early, wait for them to use cc, have a Morgana morgana spell shield you, do it before they react, (or if you are feeling a bit experimentive, try item 3814Edge of Night for the mr, move speed, and spell shield) you can get around this.

Summs: ALWAYS take flash. take either tp or ignite. tp will let you tp and ult another lane, help you get back to lane early, and other uses for tp. Ignite can be used while you ult, this hurts lifesteal based characters and allows for extra damage (if going against lifesteal based champs, sometimes its a good idea to have something with grievous wounds on you).

On to why Galio counters zed now that i have hopefully de-stigmatized you about galio's worth. Galio is able to hit zed pretty well, because of the e q poke combo mentioned earlier, galio will easily be able to burn zed's shadow and a decent amount of his energy. Galio's ult IS THE COUNTER to zed ult. the prime issue with galio is that the ult can be countered by any hard cc, however zed cant do that. Zed has no cc whatsoever, so his only hope of escaping a galio ult is to flash or shadow out. however, thats not as simple as you might think because flash has a much longer cd than galio ult, and shadows have to be set before hand, otherwise zed wont have enough time to escape. Not to mention, zed usually doesnt walk up to you to combo, he uses shadow or ult. with shadow, he has no choice but to flash (if he can in time) and with his ult... here comes the fun part. Zed's ult relies on damage dealt during the duration of his ult, so galio ulting makes it so that zed cannot do much other than autos. One might argue here that zed could attack with his e and q from the shadow, but that cant happen, zed ult has a period of time where he cannot attack, the lands directly on top of galio. Galio ult set right at zed ult means that zed will exit his ult to auto galio with no escape because the period of time before people can escape galio's ult will occur when zed cannot move. the moment zed exits, he will be taunted, his ult wasted, and he will be slowed afterwards with huge damage. Zed is not meant to auto, is not meant to build tanky enough to survive this, and galio with abyssal and spirit visage will take away from zed's only hope, his passive. All in all, zed cannot do anything to galio, there is plenty of items galio can build against him. item 3026 Guardian angels provides armour, and mr which gives ap, and makes it so galio will just return; item 3157 zhonyas, even more countering to the ult, and armour plus ap, etc. etc. The list goes on forever. The best part is, Galio doesn't even have to go out of his way to build against Zed.

This was my analysis, I would like to hear any flaws, counter logic, tips, or anything that goes against or with my idea. I really enjoy Galio's playstyle, and am surprised nobody on the web has presented this idea yet. Please nobody mention his mana pool, as discussed before, / counters this argument while providing extra ap, a shield, etc. Sorry for all the words, and thank you for any feedback.

7 Comments

A Doorknob2 votes

Dude TL;DR

Looking to counter Zed with a champ? Here's the champ...:Zilean.

Miss her smile1 votes

Your comment is very one sided with an obvious bias as a galio player. Galio is a situational pick because he can be devestating with his ultimate against certain comps with no CC to stop it BUT is really weak if his ult can be stopped as his teamfight is just not meta. He has neither the damage that a regular mid laner has and is not a strong enough threat as a top laner for the ADC provided the right support. THIS is why he's situational which is different from bad.

Secondly, he is NOT a counter to Zed. There are a few flaws with your explanation here. A tear rush on galio is subpar and not very useful. Your base stats aren't high enough to afford a delay in power. When I think counter, I assume high level play advantage which in that case Zed wins this matchup, not because he can out duel but because he can easily shove and poke safely with energy and then go off to roam. Zed doesn't NEED to fight you but he does have the ability. Galio is mana based AND melee meaning he can either poke or shove the wave with his q and/or e. Zed is energy based and can easily dodge poke by shadowing and then playing safely for a short window. While Galio's roam is subpar, Zed's is wonderful. Galio has the disadvantage in this matchup. Also if you're saving Galio ult for Zed then you're likely not frontlining for your team and playing Galio as a spell caster beside your carry. We should assume high level play when talking about counters.

Flygunn1 votes

Thank you for the feedback, I would like to clarify however, that I am not a Galio main, and do not mean to imply that i would be attacking zed all game, just that during the laning phase, I have found it easy to pressure zed out of cs and win all-ins. I agree with roaming being an issue, Galio has much less instant kill potential in a roam. However your comment on Zed shadowing away is a part of where galio works against zed, if zed needs to w away from a poke and hang back or else bite the damage, zed is not going to have a good laning phase. And zed is not actually able to easily shove galio back, when I play those match-ups, zed can only do a third, less when galio gets ahead due to harass, and galio with eq can do half to two thirds. Reading through my comment, I realize it does appear very one sided, I tried to put in the flaws to galio, however I realized I had written a novel and people might focus on the issues against galio rather than the main point of my comment. I already addressed your part of the situational view, and put in about six different ways to safely land an ult around cc characters, I'm not sure if you saw those parts. Galio play style wise only needs to be melee when he has a ton of kill pressure or is in a late game team fight, and tear is a personal preference because I find the ability to consistently cast spells without backing for mana to be more worthwhile than the tiny amount of damage and/or utility for 750 gold.

This is not an attack against you, just the considerations and experience I put in before writing this and some addressing to your comment. I would rather you not assume that my level 3 mastery of galio creates "an obvious bias as a galio player". Thank you.

Miss her smile1 votes

So my question to you is, what pressure does galio have in lane that stops Zed from shoving if Zed is able to dodge with his W? There is none. Zed has free reign until Galio cooldown is back up in which he has sufficient time to CS or shove. This is not a personal attack against you but you likely haven't faced any good Zeds. What makes Zed a strong pick is his versatility in dealing with lane matchups. He can play safely and farm and then straight up instaburst many of the matchups. And if you think building no armor is enough to keep you safe then you're mistaken. He CAN pop a Galio at 6 (well maybe not insta but at 70-80 easily). The basis of your argument stems around Galio getting the advantage during laning but this won't happen at higher levels of play. Galio can't harass while shoving and does indeed have mana problems that Tear cannot fix. Also a quick tip, tear is USUALLY a bad item. There are few champions that use this effectively such as Karthus and Singed. Even so, many of them opt for a ROA just because of how far the 750g puts you behind.

Flygunn1 votes

Thank you for your consideration, to clarify, I never intended Galio to not build any Armour in this match-up. The pressure Galio has is his e and q, Galio throws out an e or q, usually e due to its travel time at zed. In most cases, Zed will attempt to dodge and get hit, or w away from it. There are cases of zed being able to just walk out of them, but I don't consider it a good example if one of the two players is much better than the other, this is champion to champion. If zed uses w, galio instantly pops q, I agree, tear offers no damage or defenses, but I like tear on Galio here because it does allow Galio to harass while farming, I use e to both poke and farm. But those are just standard lane pressure semantics, the main point of my argument is galio is THE champion zed cannot just pop at level 6, because Zed cannot cancel Galio's ult, and Galio's ult forces Zed to not be able to q or e, which is his greatest source of damage. Zed cannot escape from the Galio ult once ulted in a 1v1. This means that Galio is practically invulnerable to zed until teamfights, because Galio will have both armour and ap, while zed is sacrificing kill-potential for maw of malmortius or sacrificing survivability to build damage. Zed cannot poke Galio to death if Galio goes near the turret, because Galio can just pull back the moment Zed is lethal from a w e q aa, forcing zed to get no kills, or Galio to get kills from zed diving an undivable target.
In this match-up, would you consider RoA over TotG?

Miss her smile1 votes

{quoted}

Thank you for your consideration, to clarify, I never intended Galio to not build any Armour in this match-up. The pressure Galio has is his e and q, Galio throws out an e or q, usually e due to its travel time at zed. In most cases, Zed will attempt to dodge and get hit, or w away from it. There are cases of zed being able to just walk out of them, but I don't consider it a good example if one of the two players is much better than the other, this is champion to champion. If zed uses w, galio instantly pops q, I agree, tear offers no damage or defenses, but I like tear on Galio here because it does allow Galio to harass while farming, I use e to both poke and farm. But those are just standard lane pressure semantics, the main point of my argument is galio is THE champion zed cannot just pop at level 6, because Zed cannot cancel Galio's ult, and Galio's ult forces Zed to not be able to q or e, which is his greatest source of damage. Zed cannot escape from the Galio ult once ulted in a 1v1. This means that Galio is practically invulnerable to zed until teamfights, because Galio will have both armour and ap, while zed is sacrificing kill-potential for maw of malmortius or sacrificing survivability to build damage. Zed cannot poke Galio to death if Galio goes near the turret, because Galio can just pull back the moment Zed is lethal from a w e q aa, forcing zed to get no kills, or Galio to get kills from zed diving an undivable target.
In this match-up, would you consider RoA over TotG?

I don't think you get the point I'm trying to put across. Zed CAN poke Galio to death or burst range while Galio cannot. Zed does not need to use his w before Galio uses his Q. There is little point in Galio using E in this matchup for "Poke" as the mana to health ratio that you're losing is not worth it at all (similar to Malphite Q in lane not being worth the points against most champions). These lane semantics are what cause Zed to get the lead and make your points irrelevant. Zed has NO NEED to ult to kill Galio. He can simply pressure him out of lane and roam. Just because Galio ULT stops Zed ult doesn't mean he counters Zed in any way.

Galio has no reliable way of landing his Q when Zed can shadow to dodge and out trade Galio easily. There is no reason for Zed to need to shadow Galio's E unless you notice him putting points to max it as Galio would just be wasting mana. Galio has no kill pressure on Zed while Zed has a ton on Galio. Zed has way more roam potential than Galio. Zed can also safely farm forever while Galio is limited by mana. You're mistaken if Zed gets out pressured by Galio in lane. There's a reason Zed is so difficult to lane against in high elo. He can play safe and endlessly farm with energy, he has a ridiculous amount of kill pressure, even without ulting, and he has a ridiculous roam threat. Three things Galio doesn't have.

In the matchup I would definitely consider RoA over Tear. The build path would likely be RoA into Zhonyas to provide both sustain and tankiness in lane.

Plastic Mem0ries1 votes

Can you make TL;DR for me please? D:

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