Is anyone else disappointed by Veigar's remake?

Chompteeth·Mar 27, 2015·6 votes·842 views

I'm just saying after the remake I feel that he is useless. The biggest disappointment is the fore warning of the stun. An easy drift to the left or right can save any summoners life, which renders Veigar's meteor meaningless. No one is jumping towards a over head meteor zooming down from orbit. The change in Q is a nice touch but people now only have to put Veigar in a disadvantage by simply putting creeps between the two. This recent change to die hard Veigar players is a huge disappointment and for anyone wanting to get RP back for skins good luck. I'm curious if any other Veigar players have a different opinion, so please post your thoughts!

ChompTeeth

18 Comments

TerffMar 27, 20157 votes

everyone is

SotnemMar 27, 20154 votes

He no longer has that scare factor he used to carry that's for sure. I'm hoping they aren't done balancing him cause though it seems hes just as effective during team fights he lost his solo edge.

lightdragoon88Mar 27, 20152 votes

FINALLY got to use him on ARAM.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1773600297/201418121?tab=overview

It went amazingly well. The added range on his Cage was very nice and I felt like I was catching them in my cage more often. I think it is because I always over guess where they were moving with the instant cage cause I usually play under 100 or so pings. With the added range plus the short delay, I was able to over shot where they were be a bit and still hit them cause they end up walking into it.

Other times they would stay in the center of the cage if I miss, but then Volibear would then flip them into the cage for a stun anyway so it was fun.

OrbvMar 27, 20152 votes

That says so much in that you need someone else to make the stun happen. =/. He's become a teamfight only mage because he can't assassinate in lane.

lightdragoon88Mar 27, 20152 votes

I don't "need" the ally to stun targets, but why not use my allies skills? This is a team game after all.

OrbvMar 27, 20152 votes

Reliance on others to make an impact isn't a NEED in a team game. That is why Karma was completely reworked. A better combination would have been a stun into a knockback by Voli bringing him closer to your team for more sustained damage. His stun is less effectual than a Cho'gath knockup.

lightdragoon88Mar 27, 20151 votes

Again, I don't need a teammate to make stuns, but my allies worked with my stuns. Either I stun and Voli knocked them back and we kill them or I trap them in the cage and my team kill them.

EIther way the cage worked and we, as a team, won.

OrbvMar 27, 20151 votes

You're observing it very generally, but it was ARAM so it makes sense. The cage works, it always will, but not as intended. Instead there's a new intention, but the champion still relies on his old play pattern more than ever now because he has a 2 skillshots that can be dodged in the space when a targeted spell would have been more suiting for a moving captive.

What you described is just good teamwork in a small map where any spell that takes up space is strong (Trundle, Anivia, Morg, Malz, Viktor, Nasus, Ziggs, Cass) . We cannot determine the useability of Veigar based on his play in ARAM because there's no option besides working as a team. So great that it worked for you! But in ARAM almost any champion can do great as long as there's a champion that complements what they do.

lightdragoon88Mar 28, 20151 votes

Ok this I can understand and agree with.

I have said many time before on other threads (but forget to say it here sorry) That the changes to Veigar or great on ARAM.

I do agree that he still needs work for Summoner Rift, but I like how he is right now on ARAM compare to how the old Veigar was on ARAM.

ChompteethMar 29, 20151 votes

Keep in mind you are talking about ARAM where all champions are contained with in a lane. You throw a net in a stream your going to catch something. When it comes to playing back in ranked games, the stream becomes a lake have fun catching any fish.

lightdragoon88Mar 29, 20151 votes

Again I think the changes are great for Veigar on ARAM.

I know he needs helps on Summoner Rift, but as an ARAM player, I like the changes. You were asking for thoughts and I gave it as an ARAM player.

lightdragoon88Mar 27, 20151 votes

I can't say. Every time I get him on ARAM someone dodges.

But I have faced him on ARAM quite a few times and that cage is much more annoying to deal with than the old cage.

Edit: I agree with what Riot was doing with the forewaring on the cage. An instant AOE stun can be too good unless it on a very long cooldown (like ult level of cooldown) . Now Veigar just needs a little more teaks to the kit to be good again, but the instant stun cage (imo) should not be back.

kcStrangerMar 27, 20151 votes

I don't play Veigar, but I'm disappointed with just how very bad their initial balancing was. Hopefully they keep working until he's in a good place.

I don't think perfect balancing is realistic, but they ought to be capable of better than this. They need to hire developers with a strong sense of how balance changes will impact champion strength.

ZarxisMar 27, 20151 votes

If Riot would do something to allow his W to hit a target without needing the stun from his E (ex: slow on Q, larger W AoE, shorter W delay, special W effects when W is dropped inside of E), he'd be nearly back to how he was before (viable). He'll still be extremely vulnerable to blink champions because of the loss of his only reliable form of defense/escape (instant E stun), but he'd be nearly as good as he was before against all other champions.

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 27, 20151 votes

i don't think i've seen any veigar players who were happy about it. he was my favorite and most played champion before, and i feel like he's borderline unplayable right now. his kit no longer functions as a whole, it's just random pieces put together. with the E in its current state, you can't really land the W at all without aid from your teammates (or your opponent walking right into it)

DeloricVIMar 28, 20151 votes

I am... conflicted about this rework. I remember playing against him being super frustrating because he could just put up his cage and either trap you in the middle or land the edge directly on your head, which was so much easier when it was instant. However, after playing him, this delay on his Event Horizon just.... * sigh *. He needed that instant stun to get kills, but landing it was pretty terrifying for the other player. If he's farmed correctly, he's probably going to blow you up if he catches you. Here lies the sticking point for me... how to make his E easy enough to land that it's possible without someone helping you or your opponent being dumb as a bot, but at the same time, not make it so easy to land that it's really frustrating for other players. I don't think the change balances this very well... it's made it a lot less frustrating to the other player, but for Veigar it's become a nuisance. Sometimes, like in teamfights when there's already a maelstrom of particle effects all over the place already the warning indicator is easy to lose in the shuffle, but... well at that point, unless he's master of skillshots, he probably lost lane and isn't going to nuke someone down like he used to.

The changes to his Q, I like a lot. It's a lot more versatile, but requires a bit more skills to use rather than point and click. If you're good, you can line it up and get 2-3 stacks with one shot (3 if you last hit a normal creep and a cannon creep). I've had teamfights where I got double kills with one Q. Thanks for the 14 stacks of AP guys. In lane, you can even stack and poke at the same time if you're positioned correctly. It's not ahri's.... thing where she throws her crystal ball at you, but it works. At higher levels, you can just one-shot caster creeps with it, and with two going down at a time... you get some good stacks. Not bad.

The buff to his passive is much appreciated, because we all know that Veigar synergizes very well with Tear of the Godess/Archangel's staff/Seraph's embrace because you spam Q to farm. Maybe this change can bring him a bit closer to his former glory, but it's still nowhere close to how it used to be. He used to give you the sinking feeling you get when you see someone pick Katarina, Ahri, or Akali, but not anymore.

In the end... Riot has some work to get Veigar back into relevance in soloqueue. I don't know if the pros are doing anything with Veigar... after all, most of the best champs for the LCS are earlier game champions that I've heard of, and Veigar's most powerful move has been rendered pretty hard to land. Like, at an LCS, this thing has to be near impossible to land the stun.

IcyPepperMar 28, 20151 votes

Did Lee Sin have a huge pick rate in season 4 but a below average win rate?

DrCabesMar 28, 20151 votes

Easy fix for Veigars E is go have it appear gradually from a starting pointing rounding to an end point. More specifically have the Horizon start at the point closest to Veigar and work its way around both sides over the .75 seconds too the opposite side. This way Veigar can punish players that are out of position or too aggressive without being able to insta stun a laner or team from a large distance away.