Sylas ultimate in URF grants permanent Shyvana ult

the t squared·Feb 5, 2019·13 votes·10,134 views

So I just had this URF game against a Sylas, and when he abducted Shyvana's ultimate, he can stay in her dragon form forever, since he doesn't inherit the fury bar like Shyvana and instead has a temporary mana bar that decreases over time, when that mana reaches 0 is when he turns back to his original form, but since URF prevents mana consumption, he gets to use dragon form until he dies. Also, since Shyvana's ult isn't classified as a permanent transformation, the 5 minute rule isn't applied. He was losing because he was melee and my team had long range pokes, but this gave him a permanent long range splash nuke that allowed him to one shot most of my teammates at a safe distance. In the end we still managed to win because the real Shyvana fears no impostors, but I just want to know if this is an intended interaction in URF.

18 Comments

FhEuUnUzoZurFHktFeb 5, 201910 votes

Riot doesn't bugfix in URF

the t squaredFeb 6, 20191 votes

well they should, and I'm quite sure they have done bug fixes for URF in the past.

DUDE BROFeb 5, 20193 votes

Just an oversight, but the chance of getting Sylas vs Shyvana in urf is extremely low. I personally have still not seen a single Sylas NOR Shyvana in urf at all.

They most likely won't fix it due to that reason.

Raiko HorikawaFeb 5, 20192 votes

Okay, this is epic.

the t squaredFeb 6, 20191 votes

yes, but only for the Sylas player.

Raiko HorikawaFeb 6, 20191 votes

What a coincidence, I am a Sylas Player ^^

SanKakUFeb 5, 20192 votes

I think it's a stupid mechanic and if I understand how his scaling works correctly, it means every AD scaling in her kit scales with his AP when he's transformed...which means he's doing roughly twice as much bonus stats damage as Shyvana is. Which means when he steals her ultimate, he's already much better than she is.

However, if he steals it once in URF(due to the unnecessary interaction that you pointed out), it makes me wonder if he's going to be bugged out and not be able to level up abilities and/or get stats updated. If that's the case, it would mean he's too weak in ARAM even though OP in a regular game...unless he just waits until full inventory or end game time estimation to actually steal and use it.

He's going to get some changes, that's for sure. It's a good thing he's entering free to play rotation because now everyone will get a chance to play him and maybe we'll not have to ban him quite so much and he can get fixed faster. Obviously, the unnecessary mana to fury interaction he has makes him too strong, but I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg for what's wrong with him versus Shyvana.

KyovulpesFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think it's an extremely stupid mechanic and if I understand how his scaling works correctly, it means every AD scaling in her kit scales with his AP when he's transformed...which means he's doing roughly twice as much bonus stats damage as Shyvana is. Which means when he steals her ultimate, he's already much better than she is.

However, if he steals it once in URF(due to the unnecessary interaction that you pointed out), it makes me wonder if he's going to be bugged out and not be able to level up abilities and/or get stats updated. If that's the case, it would mean he's too weak in ARAM even though OP in a regular game...unless he just waits until full inventory or end game time estimation to actually steal and use it.

He's going to get some changes, that's for sure. It's a good thing he's entering free to play rotation because now everyone will get a chance to play him and maybe we'll not have to ban him quite so much and he can get fixed faster. Obviously, the unnecessary mana to fury interaction he has makes him too strong, but I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg for what's wrong with him versus Shyvana.

The ad conversion is suprisingly small and the added fact that he doesn't get the passive of said characters some of the ultimates even when a boost bonuses are added he really doesn't get much off of it. Which is why renekton ult is better to steal than a twitch or a vayne ult, who mind you both who would give flat ad bonuses, even late game. He more or less gets better ults from mages as most mages ults have insane scaling on ultimates and is benificial to him because he gets he gets the raw damage with no waste in a conversion matter.

Actually now that I think about it he gets better ult scaling off of tanks as well too since tanks usually have inbuilt ap damage as like a mixture in case they have to fight another tank.

tl;dr ult Chogath =instawins

SanKakUFeb 5, 20191 votes

It's not a small conversion, and even if it was, she has AP scaling in her kit which his AP benefits from. Many tanks don't have AD scaling and AP scaling.

I don't think you understand the gravity of what I'm referencing. He can't steal Ornn's entire kit, so he can't get Ornn's Q which scales with AD in addition to everything else. But when he steals Shyvana's R, he gets her Q, W, E, and her R. It's broken because she has hybrid scaling. Nidalee and Jayce also have hybrid scaling, but they trade something for their alternate form. Shyvana trades nothing. Her ultimate form is just what it sounds like, better than her regular form. Not only does he get the entire kit, he also has superior scaling and on top of it all, he can extend it past what Shyvana can.

I would guess they made it so he can extend it with mana regeneration because they would assume he wouldn't build much attack speed(which Shyvana would use to extend her ultimate), but he can buy for example Nashor's Tooth, so I don't like that reasoning at all. It just creates an additional problem.

KyovulpesFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's not a small conversion, and even if it was, she has AP scaling in her kit which his AP benefits from. Many tanks don't have AD scaling and AP scaling.

I don't think you understand the gravity of what I'm referencing. He can't steal Ornn's entire kit, so he can't get Ornn's Q which scales with AD in addition to everything else. But when he steals Shyvana's R, he gets her Q, W, E, and her R. It's broken because she has hybrid scaling. Nidalee and Jayce also have hybrid scaling, but they trade something for their alternate form. Shyvana trades nothing. Her ultimate form is just what it sounds like, better than her regular form. Not only does he get the entire kit, he also has superior scaling and on top of it all, he can extend it past what Shyvana can.

I would guess they made it so he can extend it with mana regeneration because they would assume he wouldn't build much attack speed(which Shyvana would use to extend her ultimate), but he can buy for example Nashor's Tooth, so I don't like that reasoning at all. It just creates an additional problem.

All Hijacked ultimates and abilities that do not scale with ability power have their attack damage ratios converted to ability power ratios, scaling with 0.7% AP per 1% total AD, and 0.5% AP per 1% bonus AD.

Like i said no it's not.^ Shyvana only an actual ap scaling on the burst her E and her R. Her W does magic damage but scales with bonus AD which she generally she doesn't build. Op said they were able to kite them off as per the usual problem as shyvana would have so Q is negligible and doesn't scale with anything but bonus AD.

Sylas also doesn't get the armor bonuses and has to build squishy because thats the usual gal nature of ap items if you wanna nuke someone.

Your anger is unjustified

SanKakUFeb 5, 20191 votes

Her Q and W do not scale with AP. Even though her E does, that doesn't stop her Q and W from scaling with AP on his transformation. And since Shyvana buying a mix of AP and AD does rather well, it just makes his pure AP scaling with her kit disgusting. E still scales with whatever AD he has by the way, it's not bonus AD, so he loses nothing from transforming into her ultimate form and only gains things.

If you want to debate that game in particular, I already explained that there might be more to the interaction than just the fact that he can't go back to himself which contributes to him being too weak. If you can't read an entire post, don't bother responding to it.

KyovulpesFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Her Q and W do not scale with AP. Even though her E does, that doesn't stop her Q and W from scaling with AP on his transformation. And since Shyvana buying a mix of AP and AD does rather well, it just makes his pure AP scaling with her kit disgusting. E still scales with whatever AD he has by the way, it's not bonus AD, so he loses nothing from transforming into her ultimate form and only gains things.

If you want to debate that game in particular, I already explained that there might be more to the interaction than just the fact that he can't go back to himself which contributes to him being too weak. If you can't read an entire post, don't bother responding to it.

When the actual hell are you building any kind of ad on sylas? having the extra 30% is nothing compared to the basically true damage you'll do going double pen AP. Actually with that damage he's over killing you so why would the AD matter anyways? it's only on this mode that he'll be staying permanently in that form other wise what you're explaining is just AP shyvana in a nut shell. So how bout you rEaD aN EnTiRe post.

SanKakUFeb 6, 20191 votes

The moment you pick Sylas in the draft, you're getting 109 AD on your champion at level 18, whether you like it or not. There's no 'refunding AD for mages' in this game. Sylas gets to use AD scaling that other mages don't get to use because of the way his ultimate works at the moment. Other mages use AD when they buy things like item 3057 item 1043 item 3101 so it's not crazy that he's getting AD scaling. It's just crazy how he gets it.

14daysuspensionkFeb 5, 20191 votes

I think the same goes for characters like Nidalee and Elise.

Chembaron YamadaFeb 5, 20193 votes

Nidalee and Elise are intended, since their transformations are in fact permanent to begin with. Nidalee and Elise can chose when they want to be in which form, there is nothing forcing them out of any of their forms.

Sylas copies that. If he steals Elises ult, for example, then he gets to play in her spider form until he uses her ultimate again to transform back to Sylas. This is a completely different situation than with Shyvana.

14daysuspensionkFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nidalee and Elise are intended, since their transformations are in fact permanent to begin with. Nidalee and Elise can chose when they want to be in which form, there is nothing forcing them out of any of their forms.

Sylas copies that. If he steals Elises ult, for example, then he gets to play in her spider form until he uses her ultimate again to transform back to Sylas. This is a completely different situation than with Shyvana.

I know that, was just wondering if the OP here knew that.

the t squaredFeb 6, 20192 votes

For Nidalee and Elise, because their ult is a permanent transformation (meaning they can technically stay in it forever), there is an internal timer, where if he stays in their alternate form for 5 minutes it will force him out of it, but since Shyvana ult is not a permanent transformation to start with, he can stay in it for as long as he lives or has mana left. Because his mana does not go down in URF mode, he gets to keep Shyvana ult forever.