Tahm Kench right now is way to over powered and can 1v1 literally anyone doesnt matter who he needs to be nerfed immediately. He actually makes the game unplayable and unfun because he shits on anyone top lane which is mind numblying absurd. its absolute bullshit not even sorry for the language because you dont even need to be good at the game to win as him.
JackMcCarry17 votesDoesnt he have less WR than morde (51% to 52.5%
) while having HALF his pickrate (12% to 6%) and less than 3 times his banrate.
Just buy QSS
letsfeedtogether12 voteslmao. i cant stand this logic of "there is another champ that is more broken so the other champion is not" jesus christ. 1 broken champ dosent mean there arent more
The God Devil6 votesDoesnt he have less WR than morde (51%
From my understanding, the issue with Tahm isn't that he's OP in the game overall, but completely oppressive during lane phase. He's unbeatable then and has an easy time zoning the opponent off of CS, but falls off once people start grouping. Of course, there are some options, like the QSS you mentioned, calling for ganks early (depends on who you picked and your jungler, however), and picking a ranged champion and playing a bit safer.
Trapics1 votes[{quoted}](name=The God Devil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8a7cZz9,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-06-24T15:18:24.132+0000)
From my understanding, the issue with Tahm isn't that he's OP in the game overall, but completely oppressive during lane phase. He's unbeatable then and has an easy time zoning the opponent off of CS, but falls off once people start grouping. Of course, there are some options, like the QSS you mentioned, calling for ganks early (depends on who you picked and your jungler, however), and picking a ranged champion and playing a bit safer.
Perfectly said. Anyone who disagrees with this is simply a wood 4 sup main.
Midg3t10 votesyea, he's so overpowered with that massive winrate which is whooping 50% xDD
letsfeedtogether23 votesakali has 40 something win rate and she is still broken in the right hands.
win rate dosent mean everything. damage dealt objectives gold gain and so much more,
JackMcCarry12 votesakali has 40 something win rate and she is still broken in the right hands.
win rate dosent mean everything. damage dealt objectives gold gain and so much more,
What is broken about a champ with 51% winrate and 6% pickrate?
Can you say annoying? Yes, that's subjective tho, so how is tahm kench OP?
Before you say "but AKALI", akali is a menece in pro play, so are all the champs who are kept low winrate, that's because their learning curve skyrockets your potential due to their kit.
Tahm isnt akali, tahm has 3 very basic single target abilities, his most skill expressive skill is his ult. He's easy to pick up and play, dont even compare him to akali.
letsfeedtogether3 votesakali
JackMcCarry4 votesakali
Read my edit: Before you say "but AKALI", akali is a menece in pro play, so are all the champs who are kept low winrate, that's because their learning curve skyrockets your potential due to their kit.
Tahm isnt akali, tahm has 3 very basic single target abilities, his most skill expressive skill is his ult. He's easy to pick up and play, dont even compare him to akali lol.
letsfeedtogether3 votesakali nerfs for pro plays are only the last 2 or 3 nerfs. akali had 43% wr and got nerfed because she is broken in the right hands. this just proves the fact win rate dosent mean everything. ashe had 53% wr a few patches ago is she broken?
tahm is un 1v1able early to mid and some champs even late. not just annoying. he does too much damage even for a full early game champ.
JackMcCarry9 votesakali nerfs for pro plays are only the last 2 or 3 nerfs. akali had 43% wr and got nerfed because she is broken in the right hands. this just proves the fact win rate dosent mean everything. ashe had 53% wr a few patches ago is she broken?
tahm is un 1v1able early to mid and some champs even late. not just annoying. he does too much damage even for a full early game champ.
Akali is still pick pan in pro play? Just watch the latest series, she's almost in every game, she's nerfed due to pro play AND her potential.
But like i said - AKALI IS NOT TAHM, tahm barely has a learning curve, he's a simple champ, he pretty much is just an early game bully.
tahm is un 1v1able early to mid and some champs even late.
Okay? So dont 1v1 him? Many champs cant be 1v1'd, some are even actually mobile, thats my problem and my entire point.
People here dare say morde might be too strong, the circle jerk comes down and everyone shout "JUST BUY QSS, JUST KITE HIM", here comes a champ with similar weaknesses AND lower stats across the boards and people want to gut him because you cant 1v1 him in lane.
So like everyone told me. Just kite him, buy QSS
letsfeedtogether3 votesNo you cannot kite him if he takes the rigt runes. Not only that. I did not say anything about akali pick and ban you said it. A lot of champs cannot be 1v1'ed and everybody hate them. Tahm can dive you. He can 1v1 you he can slow he can stun he can do everything needed to 1v1 and make your lane horrible
JackMcCarry7 votesNo you cannot kite him if he takes the rigt runes. Not only that. I did not say anything about akali pick and ban you said it. A lot of champs cannot be 1v1'ed and everybody hate them. Tahm can dive you. He can 1v1 you he can slow he can stun he can do everything needed to 1v1 and make your lane horrible
Some champs are lane bullies, he can be kited as long as you dodge his Q, if you have further trouble, buy QSS.
Just because a champion is hated doesnt mean they deserved to he nerfed into the ground, espacially when actual data suggests otherwise.
letsfeedtogether1 votesThe actual data dosent say qnything because you dont have the data. Unlike akali where riot gave us her win rate ones. + win rate dosent mean everything so you dont have the data you have a little bit of it. I did not say he shouldbe gutted and i am fine facing him i main top and do not ban him or anything. I play against him and i am fine withit. But i do get why people hate him
(Bte champs do get changed because pelple hate them - riven vayne
JackMcCarry3 votesThe actual data dosent say qnything because you dont have the data. Unlike akali where riot gave us her win rate ones. + win rate dosent mean everything so you dont have the data you have a little bit of it. I did not say he shouldbe gutted and i am fine facing him i main top and do not ban him or anything. I play against him and i am fine withit. But i do get why people hate him
(Bte champs do get changed because pelple hate them - riven vayne
What are you talking about? Websites absolutly give us the data. Look at akali winrate by game, it skyrockets to 52% almost 53% winrate. Look at tahm WR by games played, it actually LOWERS.
https://m.u.gg/ here you go, it sure as hell more actual data than someone saying he cant 1v1 him.
(Bte champs do get changed because pelple hate them - riven vayne
Riven had high winrate AND pickrate on all sights when she was nerfed, which was more of a shift in power since they nerfed 1 ability and buffed the other. When was the last time Vayne was nerfed? All her major changes were buffs (like giving her Q half it's CD during her ult and extended duration when scoring kills).
Champion being annoying is not a reason to nerf, thats why Yasuo isnt getting nerfed, because annoying is subjective. I hate mages, should i make a thread on why they deserve nerfs?
letsfeedtogether2 votesThey said riven is not out of line and they nerfed her because players wont stop asking. The data we have and data riot has is not the same. Id say there is 10% ~ difference
JackMcCarry4 votesThey said riven is not out of line and they nerfed her because players wont stop asking. The data we have and data riot has is not the same. Id say there is 10% ~ difference
They do NOT nerf champions just because people wont stop asking.
She was a well known issue for a while, until they decided on a net neutral change.
If they would nerf based on that yasuo would literally get deleted along with teemo and everytoplaner who is ranged.
The data we have and data riot has is not the same. Id say there is 10% ~ difference
Even if we believe that, that would mean Riot know what they are doing way better than the boards, so if tahm kench truly is OP, they'll nerf him.
GayFluffyUnicorn9 votesBEcause he beats literally every non ranged champion forcing the game into a coinflip on who has the better bot/jungle.
IF he gets a lead on you he steamrolls you and just dives you over and over.
If you both go even and he managed to make you both useless he wins because he can atleast eat his ADC or make ult cross map plays.
He is basically "unhealthy the champion".
You guys need to get rid of riots delusion that some random numbers mean anything. 'This is why this game sucks so hard and isn't fun anymore because everyone just looks at random numbers "yup that number is X so it can't be Y what actually happens in a game doesn't matter".
JackMcCarry3 votesSo what should we balance the game around? If a champion has an easier time winning lane? You know if tahm kench wouldnt be in his position, Darius would just fill his place as the melee counter right? You dont tell people to go ham on Darius you tell them to survive lane, whats the difference here? If tahm falls off like a rock late game - dont pick an early game bully, or it's okay for other lane bullies to exist but not him?
If you both go even and he managed to make you both useless he wins because he can atleast eat his ADC or make ult cross map plays
While techincally true, his supporting capabilities are so bad he has almost none existing support playrate in none coordinated play, after the mobility nerfs to his W, and it reflects by how his WR plummets as the game continues, showing just eating 1 ally per teamfight is no a substitude for other carry toplaners.
You guys need to get rid of riots delusion that some random numbers mean anything. 'This is why this game sucks so hard and isn't fun anymore because everyone just looks at random numbers "yup that number is X so it can't be Y what actually happens in a game doesn't matter"
It does matter tho, when asking for balance changes you need to build your case with both facts (data) and why YOU feel he should be gutted (annoying to play against). I find Anivia aids to play against, cancer, i can make a thread making her sound toxic, but without actual data and numbers to support why she should be nerfed outside of "i dont like her" it's just an opinion. Espacially such a heavily anti tank biased on such as yours (post history).
BEcause he beats literally every non ranged champion forcing the game into a coinflip on who has the better bot/jungle
Some of his least favorable match ups are morde, Shen and Singed, even against pantheon he has 5% less WR, an early game bully. So maybe you just need to adapt seeing as how besides "i dont like it, he beats my champs" you have no real case for why he should be gutted?
ihateyouallmuted4 votesI find Anivia aids to play against, cancer, i can make a thread making her sound toxic, but without actual data and numbers to support why she should be nerfed outside of "i dont like her" it's just an opinion.
i would love to hear your faux anivia argument, because it seems to me you're saying "sure, you claim X is an unassailable champion with an auto kill button, that'd be like me complaining about Y just cuz I don't like it" which is silly.
TBH, I no longer have any complaints after they fixed the whole "TK does 36% of your hp with one skill" and he's easy to gank, but that's the crux of the problem: it won't ever be OP in pro play because it only goes full aggro with no mobility, meaning free gold all game. In the other 80% of games though, it's not like we "have" junglers, or people who are even willing to cooperate with the demands of a specific game, most people enter the game and they're like "AH, THIS 5 PLAYER TEAM ENVIRONMENT IS THE PERFECT PLACE FOR ME TO DO MY THING AND THAT ONLY."
IainG103 votesTahm has literally been removed from Support due entirely to Pro. Only Ryze and Azir have seen more nerfs due to Pro, and it was actually his compensation buffs due to yet another Pro-driven nerf that made him so powerful now.
There are many arguments to be made about Akali vs Tahm; but DO NOT invoke Pro play to talk about the Catfrog
ChaosReyn7 voteshttps://www.facebook.com/LoLMemes.FV/videos/445719639546438/?t=44
At first, I was adamantly on the side of "yall are fucking crybabies." ...Then I saw this video, and I have to admit, there's really no way he should win a straight 1v3 like this.
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesI mean, I'm all for Tahm nerfs, but let's pick this apart one by one.
Overall, Naut was underleveled and Tahm seemed to have the obvious advantage in lane. I'm assuming Riven was already behind in lane, and then chose to come back and die to the Tahm whose damage she underestimated, or her own in relation to killing her. Lissandra did her best, but wasn't full health when the battle started, and because of Riven getting herself killed, lost most of her chance to kill a tank, a class that already does well versus mages (outside of standard laning procedure).
Do I think Tahm needs nerfs? Yeah, hit his AS or Q-delay, maybe give him a little something later in the game to make up for the fact that he can drop like a dead rock. Do I think the enemy team made a lot of mistakes in facing him, in their ability to know when to fight, or when to not go back in? Yes. The Riven was dumb, Naut tried auto'ing a Tahm to death, and Lissandra tried her best but those Q's were the end of her.
ChaosReyn1 votesAll fair points. But at the same time, just Mother Of God. >.>
butcher6546 votesTahm is Sexy hentai frog let him be op and eat ass
A 45 AMG 4Matic4 votesYeah tottaly agree nerf this dumb champion
Heko The Man3 votes player can be total shit but will still kill you at least once in lane because champ is broken
Mokuto Bunshi3 votesPeople need to keep 1 thing in mind when looking at his win-rate. This is NOT the rate at which he wins lane. First off, a champion getting a decent rate like this in an off role should be a flag and second, it isn't higher likely because kench himself doesn't carry games. What he DOES DO is win laning phase vs ANY melee champion when piloted correctly, and I mean ALL of them.
FIORA who is the premiere top duelist and already unhealthily good at dueling to make up for not being great else where? He wins lane.
Riven, a champion who is versatile in many situations and had to receive a balance pass just to keep her from being too good? He wins lane.
Kled, A lane bully who does nothing but go deep, has % damage in his kit for healthy champs like kench and excels at being a lane bully even vs riven? Kench wins lane. (Have fun remounting when stuck in his mouth for your dismount.
I could go on about how he does % dmg so most less squishy top laners die even faster because they cant even dodge, how in many cases a junger can't help etc etc. The ONLY POINT IS:
This guy DOESN'T LOOSE LANE DESPITE HIS WINRATE. CHANGE HIM.
Crescent Dusk3 votes[{quoted}](name=He eatin Beans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8a7cZz9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-24T08:33:55.086+0000)
Darius stomps on TK. Mordekaiser stomps on TK. Galio is a good counterpick to TK.
Karma top is an absolute counter to TK. Kayle is an easy lane into TK if you don't int early.
Fiora will counter TK.
Some of you people exaggerate so much. TK is a gimmick win lane early become useless mid to late game champ. Get over it or choose stronger all-in champs like Darius and Mordekaiser.
Gubaguy1 votesYou forgot akali (scaling HP damage, shroud to dodge his W, batshit insane ability to stick to a fleeing tahm), garen (immune to tahms Q, can W tahms W, can out sustain in lane, and his silences literally disables tahm), aatrox (-3- knockups on one ability, god tier sustain, slow+mini-stun to escape to engage), Vayne (FUCK vayne, scaling HP true damage, dodge that cna evade EVERYTHING tahm has, including his W when timed properly, stun, knock back, and literally inviisbility to engage, dodge, and escape with)...
My history is almost exclusively tahm and i dont win every game, people need to stop being bitches and demanding nerfs becuase they dont want to learn to play against a champion.
Crescent Dusk1 votesYou forgot akali (scaling HP damage, shroud to dodge his W, batshit insane ability to stick to a fleeing tahm), garen (immune to tahms Q, can W tahms W, can out sustain in lane, and his silences literally disables tahm), aatrox (-3- knockups on one ability, god tier sustain, slow+mini-stun to escape to engage), Vayne (FUCK vayne, scaling HP true damage, dodge that cna evade EVERYTHING tahm has, including his W when timed properly, stun, knock back, and literally inviisbility to engage, dodge, and escape with)...
My history is almost exclusively tahm and i dont win every game, people need to stop being bitches and demanding nerfs becuase they dont want to learn to play against a champion.
I believe I did mention Aatrox. I left out Akali because she actually takes brain cells to play.
I also in another thread mentioned Garen, especially if you rush MR and save W for his Q so you barely get slowed and can just kite out as you poke him with QE over and over till he's in all in execute range.
But people will whine regardless. I'd rather face a TK any day over a half competent Darius, Irelia, Riven or Morde. All those scale far better, tear up teamfights, and can 1v2 rather competently while TK is absolutely useless against ganks since he has no escapes, no burst heals, and only single target damage.
14daysuspensionk2 votesThis seems to happen everytime an out of meta champion is buffed to meta, I think Tahm will be gutted in just a few weeks like everyone else because that's how this always goes. But who knows, maybe they're planning on making him a meta slave.
FSRER2 votesI think people forget that Tahm Kench is..used to be a support champion. He should get nerfed yes by NERFING HIS W NOT HIS Q. They straight up nerfed his Q and buffed his max health damage on his W. If they revert these...changes they called balancing, nerfing his damned base armor and make his w go full speed when carrying an ally again, i think he will return to botlane and leave toplane once and for all.
Radiant Wukong2 votesLiterally logged in just to upvote this post.
AS I LAY FEEDING2 votesI lost to tahm with Karma last patch. Range kinda wins over melee, but tahm just runs you down and soaks the entire minion wave for god sake.
I kinda only see Ryze, to be the only counter.
Skeletons Grave2 votesAll these people talking about win rates as if thats the issue here. Its not and never is a good statistic for these arguments. Jayce is also a BS op lane bully. His win rate seems normal. Its the fact that the lane phase for these champions is whats OP. Tahm can be dealt with alot easier in a 5v5. But till then his laneing and roaming is incredibly strong.
Cotten Eyed Joe2 votes*Laughs in kennen, Quinn or any ranged character
Ionian Vulpix2 votesMake him a support again.
miightofdemacia1 votesI've always thought tahm was broken. Then a few months back they said they nerfed him and all tahm kench mains were crying and I haven't heard about him until recently this week. I thought he was nerfed? Is he still strong even with the nerf or did he recently get a buff?
Morbys5 votesThey nerfed his support viability, they buffed his top lane viability, by a ton. People who say he isn't broken are delusional. He is broken, does he have counters, of course, but they aren't as strong against him as ppl think.
miightofdemacia1 votesThey nerfed his support viability, they buffed his top lane viability, by a ton. People who say he isn't broken are delusional. He is broken, does he have counters, of course, but they aren't as strong against him as ppl think.
Ah I see. I hate tahm kench lol. But they should also nerf/rework pike :P
jocomotion1 votesIf they nerf his toplane they’ll have to at least make him a viable support again
HazTekSnow1 votesHave you tried 
? W start with approach velocity means he cant get away from your trades.
Pater Gascoigne1 votesI'm not a top laner so I don't know what laning against him feels like. However, I've seen countless TKs wreck top lane and then do nothing for the rest of the game. So I think a lot of this has to do with people not liking to lose lane even if it means they will win the game anyway. Nerfing TK would just lead to a different lane bully taking his place. There was a time when picking Renekton top was guaranteed to win you the lane. I think there is an inherrent problem with the lane itself
GodlyBane1 votesmorde beats him lol
xelaker1 votesJust ban him lol
KokiceNaZaru1 votesSo broken , so stupid......just lose top line so hard vs Tahm..btw silver 1 and that guy dont even know how to farm..58 cs for 15 min...but he si 7/1 becouse he play broken shitttt....and riot wont nerf him!
Grizzlpaw1 votesTahm isn't unhealthy because of winrae. Tahm is unhealthy because he robs he opposing laner of any and all agency during the lane phase. Most champions cannot win lane against a Tahm if he is played correctly.
You attempt to hold the lane near your tower as best you can, and pray that your jungler ganks.
If your jungler does not help, you pray that your team does not lose too hard because you will not be able to snowball your own lane to compensate.
Da Pi Guy 31 votesTk is broken as FUCK rn, but only in top Lane. I'm a tk support main,and this makes me want to cry, because we all know what's next. Rito is gonna nerf the shit outta him and never make him a viable support again
