Lissandra changes, thoughts from a few EUW lissandra mains

LetsGoKrzy··14 votes·1,431 views

For all that don't know the upcoming changes for Lissandra Lissandra : [Context - not going to ship in 7.7]

Base Mana increased from 304 to 330. Mana growth per level increased from 50 to 55. Base Mana Regen increased from 1.1344 to 1.2. Mana Regen Growth increased from 0.08 to 0.16.

  • These changes are great. and necessary if the passive gets changed.

Ring of Frost (W) mana cost changed from 50 at all ranks to 40/50/60/70/80.

  • I wouldn't call this a big nerf since most of us max e second over w, unless you are versus a, melee opponent in which case you do max it second most of the time. This makes Lissandra a bit weaker, which probably should be a relief to most top lanes. This is fair in my opinion and shouldn't be changed.

Glacial Path (E) mana cost changed from 80/85/90/95/100 to 60/70/80/90/100.

-A pretty nice minor buff to Lissanda. Its always great to make your only escape/gap close tool cost less mana. this will help lissandra is weakest (Pre level 6) escape ganks and push waves

Iceborn (Passive) reworked! [Per ricklessabandon this is very experimental and rough.] "Lissandra's spell casts empower her next basic attack, converting the entirety of the attack to magic damage (1.5 second cooldown). Whenever Lissandra's abilities (or empowered attack) damages an enemy champion she permanently gains a stack of Iceborn, each increasing Lissandra's maximum mana by 3 and the damage of her empowered attack by 1."

http://i.imgur.com/FpB654D.jpg

The mana stacking mechanic item 3070 is honestly a great feature for her, it will help sustain early game and get a decent mana pool for late game.

But an empowered auto attack? As cool as it sounds, many of the most experienced Lissandra players will say its a bad solution for Lissandra's current passive it does not fit into her current play style. Lissandra is Area of effect mage, an initiator, once she is in the enemy team she hasn't the time to auto attack. She couldn't utilize the mechanic anywhere outside of the lane(which would be weak early on) and 1v1 duels(which isn't her play style). She could only make use of it if she wasn't a medium ranged or built more tank stats or something like a riven animation cancel.

Instead i propose something which will make everyone happy (tell me if you agree) Keep only the mana stacking mechanic for her passive. Nerf frozen tombs damage to half of its current amount and add a passive to her ultimate "frozen tomb": inflicting crowd control on an enemy champion grants you a stack of "ice breath" that decays after 2.5 seconds (max 4 stacks) For each stack of Ice breath frozen tombs damage gets amplified by 50%.

In order to do as much damage as before you will need to at least inflict crowd control on an enemy twice, if you manage to do it 4 times you will be rewarded with 1.5 times the current damage of the ultimate, Which is difficult to do when you initiate a team fight. It also gives the team some time to react before she can get her ult off

Lets go through a couple of examples: Lissandra uses her Glacial Path badly when initiating a team fight, she was only able to catch one person with her Ring of Frost before she used her ultimate, they survive. Lissandra gets punished and dies

Lissandra is in a 1v1 situation, she catches her opponent with her Ring of Frost and Frozen shard (has 2 stacks) but decides not to use ult yet, she throws out her second Frozen shard, but misses. Her stacks decay and she looses the 1v1.

Lissandra uses her Glacial Path well on a poorly positioned team, she manages to catch all of them in her Ring of Frost and she ults herself. Her team wins the team fight because of this.

Lissandra is in a 1v1 with an opponent, The opponent knows that she has zhonyas item 3157 still up and Glacial Path is on cooldown, he forces her to use it before she can come in range to use her ultimate, her stacks decay while she is in Zhonyas, and therefor cant burst the opponent down.

Lissandra gets engaged on buy her lane opponent. She manages to land all her abilities so she can achieve 4 stacks, she uses her empowered Frozen tomb and... doesn't kill her opponent because she went full ad trying to make use of this empowered auto attack, they clearly didn't read the patch notes.

this will higher the skill ceiling on Lissandra and reward good positioning timing and accuracy and punish bad positioning of the enemy team.

I would like to hear Riot Dev team's thoughts on this if possible.

13 Comments

Winterwings5 votes

While a okay suggestion i really don't think that 2.5 seconds is reasonable... it's too short to make use of it correctly, since to get all 4 stacks you'd need to: A.) overlap and "waste" a lot of your CC potential just to increase your ult's damage in small skirmishes... or B.) Hit at least 4! people in a teamfight before ulting (which realistically isn't going to happen against any even remotely competent teams since her E engage is slow and telegraphed)

Keep in mind that Liss only has 2 "hard" crowd control effects (R on enemy and W) and 2 "soft" crowd control effects (R slow and Q slow if you hit them directly). You'd have to use them in rather quick succession to get the full benefit which may result in overlapping and losing out on CC potential just to get more damage on your ult...

And that's also not even taking into account how much that would cripple her 1v1 potential in mid/top since you'd only have the option of getting stacks from one person which means you'd have to hold back on your ultimate for a longer than usual time just to get more damage from it...

Overall, while a nice idea im not sure this would be practical because it would basically end up being "Oh did you get 4 stacks by cc'ing a lot of ppl? Grats your ult one-shots squishies and chunks the frontliners... Oh you didn't get 4 stacks or mistimed your stacks and they dropped off? Too bad, now your ult tickles the enemy and you get collapsed on and die instantly..."

... Y'know, kinda Feast-or-Famine...

Don't take this the wrong way im not hating or anything just giving my 2 cents on your idea :D

LetsGoKrzy2 votes

Your point is very valid, i didn't take overlapping cc into account but realistically if you time your abilities correctly it shouldnt effect you (and the 2.5 seconds would refresh giving you enough time to hit another q if you want) . The thing with the 4 stracks is that you dont need all 4 to win a 1v1. 2 stacks would mean you are doing the same amount of damage that you are now, Which would only be a w + q combo. all it really takes is managing your cooldowns and good aim to maximize your potential here. It is feast or famine, but its nothing go t to do with how fed you are, its gotta do with how good you are at the champion and the game

Winterwings2 votes

I still think 2.5 seconds is a rather short time for stack duration (The point i don't get is how stacks drop-off, do they drop all at once after 2.5 seconds, or is it more like Ashe Q passive, dropping off one by one for each 2.5 seconds?)...

The problem with brief power windows like these is that due to their short timed nature they have to be REALLY strong when they are up which can make the champion with such a design feel overbearing to fight against when they are in their prime, on the flip side though, when they aren't in their "empowered" state they can feel really lacking for the person playing them (Just look at Aatrox's recent passive change)

While this one is bit better, as it gives her significant power increase when she does her job (goes in and CC's as many ppl as she possibly can) while leaving plenty of counterplay to her opponents, (E is telegraphed, W and Q are short range) while also being far easier to get benefits from it as you get them for each of the stacks.

Also aiming with Liss is actually a lot easier than with other mages, due to the fact that her Q is a rather fast projectile with low range... It's the "getting into effective range" that's the problem with her kit. Which is why even though she was designed as a Mid laner, she found a much better place in Top lane... Because other than when melee assassins are meta mids she really struggles against anyone that has longer range, meanwhile you don't have to worry about this, most of the time, if you go with Top Liss...

LetsGoKrzy1 votes

Tho 2.5 seconds is short, and its just a concept so it can be changed if necessary. But I believe there should be counter play to her stacks. if you give her to long on her stack duration, it will be harder to fight her. also, you don't need to rely on you ultimate damage for a kill, the utility of it makes it a strong ability, the stun duration and stasis duration remains the same. just for a recap. 0 stacks means you do 0.5x the amount of the current ult damage and at 4 stacks you do 1.5x the amount of ult damage (add 0.25 per stack) It is not as much damage as you make it out to be. It can make the difference in a fight, but its not an auto win or loose if you get 4 stacks or not.

Bisaknosp1 votes

i take riots changes over yours lol that sounds awful

Winterwings2 votes

Care to elaborate why you think so, instead of just saying "lulz ur ideas are sux" ?

LetsGoKrzy1 votes

Yes please elaborate.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I agree that the mana-stacking is a pretty solid idea, but the empowered auto doesn't seem like it would be that good on her. At least, not as it currently is... Imagine if Riot moved Lissandra's Q to her passive, and gave her a new Q. If she's going to have an empowered auto wouldn't it be interesting if the auto behaved differently to a normal auto, rather just be converted to magic damage?

LetsGoKrzy1 votes

You are 100% correct. i see it more a nerf in most situations, let me explain why. many top and some mid laners will buy magic resist versus lissandra early. Its common to throw an auto attack between abilities in the laning faze when you trade. If your auto attack damage gets reduced by the magic resist they bought. it would deal less damage than it currently is. the extra 10 damage on it wouldn't make up for it. another reason why this is isn't a good idea.

nachocheeseeeee1 votes

I don't understand the need of mana stacking on Lissandra. She does have a relatively short cooldown on her q but it's not spmammble in sense of someone like cass, karthus or anivia who need more mana than Lissandra generally or someone who scales off mana such as ryze or kassadin.

LetsGoKrzy1 votes

It would synergies with the kits of those champions better Would it be balanced on those champions? also her q has a very high mana cost. even with allot of mana, if you were using it allot. it will use up allot of mana.

BeZaggin1 votes

I played one game with lissandra while the changes were still out, and i felt like this change was really trying to push her into a side lane. I was mid at the time, but I ended up gravitating towards splitpushing more than I normally would; I bought a lich bane and an archangels and I was basically unstoppable, especially since my spell hits were around 150 by 20 minutes.

This change is fun, but it's honestly a little overbearing. It makes her feel like a duelist with teamfighting potential more than anything. Still, I think that the idea isn't bad with some number-tuning, and it's really surprising how good her autoattacks can be if you spellblade properly; i think she could potentially play as a botlane dps with this change, and I always like seeing more mages who are capable of surviving bot.

LetsGoKrzy1 votes

that's nice to hear. I would love to try it myself

More from Gameplay