Boards›Gameplay

Should Something Be Done About Mage Supports

OutOfYourLeaugeK··2 votes·1,226 views

Recently I decided to get back into ranked matches and I figured that I would main adc for the most part, I quickly realized 8/10 games im in their support is in fact a mage / assassin. In lane they are complete bullies I really believe that any half competent adc can win lane with supports such as Zyra , Lux , Annie , Shaco , Anivia etc.. when I see these champs have been picked and I have a traditional support such as Thresh I feel as though the skill level that we must play at to succeed far surpasses their individual skill relative to the champ itself.

During Team fights its demoralizing when you get burst by the SUPPORT even though you may have played safe and csed all lane these champs provide massive utility roots, shield, aoe cc slows that surpass the so called traditional supports while also being self efficient doing damage . To clarify I have played on accounts from bronze all the way to Diamond and NO they dont suddenly become trash its funny seeing support ![Zyra](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Zyra.png)  do the MOST DAMAGE  at the end of games.

Is this something that is done or purpose for the META ? If you need faster Que times or want to play suport I suggest one of those champions for Solo Q I suggest getting the proper support laning item and a Sightstone and roam when you have the chance any game over 30-35 mins and congratulations you basicaly have 2 midlaners enjoy the Free S ranks

20 Comments

Around999People3 votes

Some of those mages need to be pulled ack like Zyra and Annie. Others are completely fine. As a thresh main I find brand supp funny since its q,e,r, adc kills.

(Bronze)

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

Yeah pretty funny sometimes ill take annie sup with ignite and zone with stun up free cs lane jg comes thinking he can do something TRIPLE KILL GG , Or get 6 roam mid flash tibbers ignite ... GG Bois

Mimy1 votes

Maybe I should play annie more.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

You should I play annie with ignite after 6 if they are in flash range and under 3/4 healths I can flash ult kill them myself and probably the support after 6 you could win lane even if adc went afk

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Midlaners going bot has always been a problem and it is one I dont think riot sees as an issue for some reason. I guess they figure that a traditional supports utility should be as much of a contribution to the game as a pseudo second mid laner should.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

Yes but thats a terrible assumptions for example Lux has a Q that roots and dmg a W that shields and an E that provides slow and damage too top it off an R snipe all without having to put herself in direct danger unlike a thresh or leona who often times may die in the process of setting up a pick for their team

Zyra has a Root a slow and AOE knock up so these champs do not lack utility the beat most traditional supports in both utility and damage \

So basicaly what happens is they either do enough dmg in lane that a trash adc can still get fed or they get fed themselves and it doesnt even matter that the adc is trash because they can cover his damage

Sona Ping2 votes

And "Traditional supports" can pull and instagib you, and by themselves if they do it enough. Blitzcrank

What's your point?

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

Blitz is banned 90% of my games sooo... Did you not read the post the point is that often time I see really good supports lose because the adc was just bad and they couldnt have a big impact on the over all game. So some people have decided to bring certain mages into the support role and are seeing more success because they can have a little more impact over the game thats all.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Midlaners going bot has always been a problem and it is one I dont think riot sees as an issue for some reason. I guess they figure that a traditional supports utility should be as much of a contribution to the game as a pseudo second mid laner should.

Boards complain that they won't support because Supports can't carry the game/is impossible to carry. Yet they complain when support champs have as much damage as the APC.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Swiftstrike41 votes

The mage supports trade damage and higher mobility for lower health and resistances. They also, typically, can't peel as well for the ADC because they simply have fewer peel skills. Most of their abilities are skill shots for engage or gradual poke, if they use their only disengage skill and miss, it leaves windows of opportunity for an engage. I mostly play mage supports because I prefer range auto-attacks (Morgana, Sona, and Lux but I think Lux is pretty much just a "kill" lane support). I also play Leona sometimes if I am duoing. I hate playing her otherwise because she is just a diver and if their is no follow up from the ADC you simply die.

Mage supports must poke down the other two laners if they have a tank support. If they don't, the tank support can simply engage after they have levels and easily win the fight if health pools and overall player skill is equal. Mage supports must harass throughout the early laning. The other issue with mage supports is if they completely abandon a damage route, they do become less effective over time. Whereas most tank supports do not become less effective because they are almost purely taken for their skill.

Another issue with mage supports, if they die in early or mid lane phase they sort of become useless because they get levels behind and they keep their damage up through early levels, not items.

I think mage supports became more prevalent with more CDR options that opened up to them with the mid-season mage update. Also, most of the mage supports, outside of Annie, are weaker midlaners at the current moment. Zyra, Morgana, Lux, Sona are all suboptimal midlaners. They aren't bad, but they are not too strong either. I don't think Lux is a bad midlaner, I just think she didn't benefit as much as other champions did from the midseason update and become relatively weaker by comparison.

I also don't know what elo you are playing at, but no one takes Shaco or Anivia to the bot lane in anything but normals. They are really poor supports.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

I dont think that they cant peel as well except for besides Nautilus for the most part more so in lower elos these mid lane supports offer a greater potential to solo carry a game because lets face it if aphromoo himself qued up in bronze solo it would be challenging for the simple fact that players have bad positioning and decision making. I have seen many times good supports who couldn't fully utilize their kit due to the team but I have seen PLENTY of Mage supports who either faceroll the laneing phase for the adc or come mid game where able to impact the game greatly.

So I see no reason to play a pure support unless your playing with a group

Swiftstrike41 votes

You probably only pay attention to the mage supports that win hard and not all the times that they lose lane. Believe me when mage supports lose lane with their ADC they are pretty useless. The goal of the mage support is to win hard and snowball the lane or that the minimum go even.

I feel completely useless in a lost lane as either Lux or Sona because I will just instantly die in a fight or skirmish. Tanks supports at least can use their skills before they get deleted.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

What Sona is broken regadless and thats a positioning fail if ur getting instantly killed in a fight as lux regardless of ur score or gold at the time in a team fight all ur doing is snaring anyone who gets close to adc or carry using E for the slow that it has and dmg you have a shield and R has good base dmg they are usefull regardless

Swiftstrike41 votes

{quoted}

What Sona is broken regadless and thats a positioning fail if ur getting instantly killed in a fight as lux regardless of ur score or gold at the time in a team fight all ur doing is snaring anyone who gets close to adc or carry using E for the slow that it has and dmg you have a shield and R has good base dmg they are usefull regardless

You do realize that post was over a month old before the Sona changes. Also players get better regarding engages as you move up in rank. You can't just assume that a mage support is dying due to a positioning failure on the mage user. If an Alistar flash knocks up and engages, you can't respond to that, unless you decide to play the ENTIRE lane outside of his flash range. Which would be absurd because then you can't harras the opposing laner. All the mages have cooldown windows in which they are weak, if 3 people jump on lux (from a gank) she can maybe at best slow three, snare two and then shield her self if she doesn't get bursted down before using those abilities. She could still die to the 3rd person.

Sometimes players simply make really good plays, leaving you little time to react. Sona and Lux and other mages can't always respond to tank engages and it doesn't necessarily reflect the skill of the user playing those mages incorrectly. Positioning sounds like an excuse, which does not accurately reflect that mages are squishy and immobile.

If mages lose the lane early, they pretty much remain useless from a damage standpoint and even a CC standpoint. If they can get bursted down in a teamfight before they use their skills in a teamfight they are useless. Tank supports may not have range in laning, but they can safely use their abilities in team fights before dying. This is not always the case for mages.

Most mages also have mana issues so they can't spam their abilities in laning, but most tank supports have pretty low costing spells.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

If an Alistair flash engages me then good now my adc doesn't have to worry about him engaging on him and yes as lux I could safely E harass outside of flash range if you didn't know. Why would we be getting ganked I would have wards ? at the end of the day im a support if we are in a team fight and the mid laner blows all he stuff to kill support lux good now hes dead and they traded their mid for a sup. All though I dont see why I would ever be caught out which goes back to positioning , Dont see how they would be useless name a tank with CC that completely out scales say zyra,lux,nami. I would love to see someone gank me as annie sup without us getting a kill not saying tank supports dont have there place in LOL but that IN SOLO QUE playing a support such as annie or lux or zyra can be much more beneficial because I have had plenty of games where I BLATANTLY carried from support that wouldst have been possible with lets say thresh

Swiftstrike41 votes

{quoted}

If an Alistair flash engages me then good now my adc doesn't have to worry about him engaging on him and yes as lux I could safely E harass outside of flash range if you didn't know. Why would we be getting ganked I would have wards ? at the end of the day im a support if we are in a team fight and the mid laner blows all he stuff to kill support lux good now hes dead and they traded their mid for a sup. All though I dont see why I would ever be caught out which goes back to positioning , Dont see how they would be useless name a tank with CC that completely out scales say zyra,lux,nami. I would love to see someone gank me as annie sup without us getting a kill not saying tank supports dont have there place in LOL but that IN SOLO QUE playing a support such as annie or lux or zyra can be much more beneficial because I have had plenty of games where I BLATANTLY carried from support that wouldst have been possible with lets say thresh

Well I was trying to explain scenarios in which support mages do not carry because they have low mobility. Regardless if an Alistar flash engages you are dead. The opposing adc got a kill, which could mean the end of your lane. If they kill you and your adc afterwards the bot lane may be done. Typically two deaths to an enemy adc ends laning phase without significant help. Maybe it doesn't in bronze, but in upper elo laning is probably over after a double kill.

Ganks happen regardless of the ward presence, sometimes you see the enemy coming and you either stay under the tower to save it or you give it up. People die all the time having vision of the incoming enemy, largely because they think there is a low risk of them dying and they don't want to give up CS. Most bad players just aren't paying attention, but even in higher elo players will be stubborn.

My point is that the mages are pretty balanced and not overpowered, but apparently you are a master at positioning and the mage supports are over powered.

If you are so knowledgeable, ward so well, and have master positioning you should be able to easily carry out of Bronze 4 with your superior support Lux. In fact just pick a support mage and carry to the bot lane to a win with your flawless positioning.

I don't know if you were just trying to pick an argument, I was pointing out that the mages in the bot lane are not that good if they fall behind and their CC kits are quite as good at tank supports.

OutOfYourLeaugeK1 votes

Pls look at my original post the point is that they give an advantage during laning phase when played correctly any champ can not be good if they fall behind ? And yes it is easy to carry that way although I dont find it fun.

Swiftstrike41 votes

{quoted}

Pls look at my original post the point is that they give an advantage during laning phase when played correctly any champ can not be good if they fall behind ? And yes it is easy to carry that way although I dont find it fun.

I did look at your OP. Simply put mages have more damage, have to manage their mana and have less resistances. But tank supports are played because they are considered the "superior" support at the moment. You do realize the meta changes all the time, but I don't think it is gravitating to mages.

They are strong early but squishy and because they are squishy they are a liability in the lane. High level players understand this and respect their damage, but they are not at all OP.

Also I disagree with the statement that champions are not good if they fall behind. Almost ALL tank supports can fall behind and still land their CC and be relevant in teamfights. Mages supports cannot however. They have less utility than most of the tanks, especially since they can die prior landing their skills.

Look at the supports the pros play, most of them play tanks not mages. The pros pretty much play any champion that is considered overpowered at the time and they are not playing squishy mage supports in the bottom lane very often.

It is just Alistar Braum and Thresh mostly. Though that may change in world, but in general tank supports are pretty strong right now.

Stalinium1 votes

Karma ?

Calabok1 votes

Riot should promote this activity, because it's more fun.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by OutOfYourLeaugeK

Dynamic Que Has Broken Me Lets Climb Out Of Bronze :)
[ARCHIVED] Player Recruitment0 comments
1
votes
Come home from deployment to banned account?
Player Behavior12 comments
1
votes