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Riot's opinion on Karthus

TheEggterminator··6 votes·1,201 views

I feel as though people would agree that Karthus is out of the loop nowadays, whether it be his playstyle, damage, kit, or role in League, he is definitely losing popularity.

During a podcast, it was mentioned that Riot feels Karthus has a unique kit so he doesn't need an update. Which is true, since his kit is unique. I play quite some Karthus, and I don't want to give any exact tweaks or concerns.

I just want to know what you guys at Riot think about Karthus' position in the game and how they feel that he is in a good position. Not to argue against their points, but just get some insight on their thoughts about League's favorite lich.

Adding this in, Karthus is definitely not weak, even being quite prominent in Korea at points. But his kit seems a bit out of the times, or just needs some fresh breath of life into it. I guess a good point would be that Karthus is not weak and can be quite powerful so balancing isn't a worry right now. It could more directly correlate to players not finding "uniqeness" in his kit that is causing these playrates. I mean, Urgot, Galio, and Taric are receiving current or future updates, and they have had the lowest play rates alongside Karthus, but Riot is tweaking/changing them, but no love for Karthus :(

19 Comments

Nekusen2 votes

being unique doesn't mean it can't be tweaked, it can still be unique and be in a state that works out.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

being unique doesn't mean it can't be tweaked, it can still be unique and be in a state that works out.

Karthus is balanced tho. He isn't UP or OP. His success simply requires more work than most champs i feel. But he succeeds much more because of it, which makes him unreliable or cumbersome to many.

the only thing i would ever consider changing about him is his ult, but i feel making it an execute, while thematic and fitting, would be overkill.

blackcat13001 votes

what about his Wall of shame. The Q damage could be a bit more to help with the jungle or in lane make his Q's feel like you did something force your opponent to get mr.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

what about his Wall of shame. The Q damage could be a bit more to help with the jungle or in lane make his Q's feel like you did something force your opponent to get mr.

It already does both of these as they do double damage if the target is the only thing hit by it.

blackcat13002 votes

Okay what if his q did 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+ 30% AP) aoe minions and small jungle mobs

                                 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 60% AP) aoe champions, large jungle mobs pets and single target minions and small jungle mobs.

「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 / 360 (+ 90% AP) or 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 100 / 150 / 200/ 250 / 300 (+ 75% AP)

Damage to single target champions large jungle mobs and pets (a.k.a Tibbers and Hemi's turrets).

Now it only takes 4 single Target Q's to kill an enemy with is 6 seconds longer then the 2 it takes of Zed Fizz Leblanc MasterYi Diana Kassadin Kayle Khazix to get a kill so the fact that it takes longer but more shot and deals more damage I think is fair.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Okay what if his q did 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+ 30% AP) aoe minions and small jungle mobs

                                 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 60% AP) aoe champions, large jungle mobs pets and single target minions and small jungle mobs.

「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 / 360 (+ 90% AP) or 「 MAGIC DAMAGE: 100 / 150 / 200/ 250 / 300 (+ 75% AP)

Damage to single target champions large jungle mobs and pets (a.k.a Tibbers and Hemi's turrets).

Now it only takes 4 single Target Q's to kill an enemy with is 6 seconds longer then the 2 it takes of Zed Fizz Leblanc MasterYi Diana Kassadin Kayle Khazix to get a kill so the fact that it takes longer but more shot and deals more damage I think is fair.

Dont exagerate. Zed's ult alone takes like 2 seconds to rev up.

Strawberrycocoa2 votes

I think Karthus should get a durability buff personally. His damage is fine if he can get in people's faces enough to make the eat Defile tics and land his Qs. What he needs is to be tankier so he can last in close range easier.

I would actually be willing to lose his current passive ENTIRELY in trade for one that gives him more durability. The only reason being squishy makes sense for him is because of his passive adding secon seconds to his lifespan in a fight. Being more durable overall would be better, I think.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Can't remember when he was "in" the loop lol. He is one of those lost and forgotten champions like Yorick

Big Lincoln1 votes

I think he can still be unique and have his spells remain as they are.

His Wall could/should punish movement harder than it currently does; this would justify making the slow a little less extreme (it should still remain a long duration slow, but possibly make it weaker overall and remove the decaying aspect. 60% would be fair, I think.) I had an idea that it should damage you for moving around after passing through the wall, which would give him a strong answer to the mobility that's troubled him without outright denying it entirely.

I think they should focus his DPS a little harder; right now he can be beaten in a straight-up duel with other DPS champions, even if landing Qs perfectly. Since his competition in the mage department (Cass, Azir, and soon Malzahar) all have strong utility, Karthus should likely be the power-pick for when you want damage set to 11.

D2Vincent1 votes

I was actually thinking that maybe Riot could give Karthus the new "Grounded" debuff that they are trying on Cass so he has a better chance of dealing with assassins and high mobility champs. I wouldn't even mind if in order to compensate Riot decides to reduce the duration of his Wall by a second. I feel it might actually be worth it.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Karthus is what I would deem a high skill cap champion.

Theoretically speaking, if the Karthus player is good enough, Karthus wins every lane matchup in the game, which is an opinion many people have guiven Zed for years now.

I would never call him Weak, not would I say he needs changes. He has a very distinct identity and play style and is very fun to play.

He also has one the mots powerful ults in the game.

The reason he doesn't see play i feel is that he requires a lot more management than the average champion. perhaps the most of any champ.

-You need to be good at predicting enemy movements as well as spacing to you your Q as well as get the max damage on it. -You need to properly manage your E so that you decide between recuperating Mana and wave clear. -You need to have good map awareness for your Ultimate. -You need to have good time management skill for his Passive.

All of these things make for a champ that everyone wants to try, but that many get discouraged with and give up on, but thats Ok. Not every champ needs to or even can be equally popular.

blackcat13002 votes

No one is that good even facker and even if Karthus dosn't loos his lane to Zed he still losses the game to Zed's ability to pressure mid and gank other lanes. Plus Zed is one of the strongest split pushers in the game what dose the skill on Karthus get you in comparison.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

No one is that good even facker and even if Karthus dosn't loos his lane to Zed he still losses the game to Zed's ability to pressure mid and gank other lanes. Plus Zed is one of the strongest split pushers in the game what dose the skill on Karthus get you in comparison.

-Karthus doesn't need to roam because he can Press R. -He is also one of the best pushers in the game. -Can easily 1v3 when a head even when he dies.

  • Is exceptional and pressuring objectives
  • Does high amounts of Bust and DoT magic dmg. -Is useful even when dead. -Can theoretically 1v1 every champ in the game.

Etc etc

This omg-zed circlejerk needs to stop Yes he is a problem and his laning is to oppressive for what it should be but ffs. We are talking about Karthus, not Zed.

blackcat13002 votes

-5457 -2845 Sorry I've heard this said so many time I started to keep a count.

So let me spell it out for you pushing out is bad if you can't dash a way because the jungler will come gank you and you will be dead. Your opponent will get bonus xp for your death and farm and when you over extend again the jungler will kill you because you have no mobility.

  • Yah dying being the key thing that happened their. Dying you died gave the enemy gold and accomplished what? Oh nothing because they all ran a way after you died.

Yah Zed is the Key piont hear and every other mobble burst damage champ well it is okay because they are assassins and ect....B.S.

Yes I am talking about a champion that is heavily played mid like Karthus used to be and is allowed to be a problem but it is okay for Karthus to do shit damage and have no mobility.

The design team said they couldn't reduce the damage on Zed's Q because it made him feel week. Well maybe his Q should be week and he should max his E instead.

Mean while Karthus deals nothing but insignificant damage. Oh as sing target Q at level 8 deals 240 wait no it isn't true damage 156 with item 3156 132 damage. So in 3 seconds 264 damage wat no the enemy is hiding in the minion wave 132; at level 8 Zed 309 damage roughly at level 8.

So Zed is dealing higher dps damage and is hitting harder now I don't know if you can get max cool-down on zed at level 8 but you can't land every Q so this is a fair comparison and don't get me started on late game 10% max health bonus damage with Zeds passive.

Karthus has low mobility, low damage, low sustain, high mana costs except Q and an ult that is only as good as you enemy is bad.

Karthus even had is wall nerfed recently for no reason. Karthus's can't even build cooldown reduction because of how useless it is and so his Q is at 1.5 seconds a twise the speed of Veigar Q at max cd with less considerable less damage.

Karthus is supposed to be the DPS Battle Mage but he has no sustain and his dps dosn't give him any substantial damage over other mages. Plus his dps only last as long as his mana so compaired to burst damage it is very week.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

-5457 -2845 Sorry I've heard this said so many time I started to keep a count.

So let me spell it out for you pushing out is bad if you can't dash a way because the jungler will come gank you and you will be dead. Your opponent will get bonus xp for your death and farm and when you over extend again the jungler will kill you because you have no mobility.

  • Yah dying being the key thing that happened their. Dying you died gave the enemy gold and accomplished what? Oh nothing because they all ran a way after you died.

Yah Zed is the Key piont hear and every other mobble burst damage champ well it is okay because they are assassins and ect....B.S.

Yes I am talking about a champion that is heavily played mid like Karthus used to be and is allowed to be a problem but it is okay for Karthus to do shit damage and have no mobility.

The design team said they couldn't reduce the damage on Zed's Q because it made him feel week. Well maybe his Q should be week and he should max his E instead.

Mean while Karthus deals nothing but insignificant damage. Oh as sing target Q at level 8 deals 240 wait no it isn't true damage 156 with item 3156 132 damage. So in 3 seconds 264 damage wat no the enemy is hiding in the minion wave 132; at level 8 Zed 309 damage roughly at level 8.

So Zed is dealing higher dps damage and is hitting harder now I don't know if you can get max cool-down on zed at level 8 but you can't land every Q so this is a fair comparison and don't get me started on late game 10% max health bonus damage with Zeds passive.

Karthus has low mobility, low damage, low sustain, high mana costs except Q and an ult that is only as good as you enemy is bad.

Karthus even had is wall nerfed recently for no reason. Karthus's can't even build cooldown reduction because of how useless it is and so his Q is at 1.5 seconds a twise the speed of Veigar Q at max cd with less considerable less damage.

Karthus is supposed to be the DPS Battle Mage but he has no sustain and his dps dosn't give him any substantial damage over other mages. Plus his dps only last as long as his mana so compaired to burst damage it is very week.

I think i figured out the problem here. people think League of Legends exists purely in the vacuum of laming phase and 1v1s

JerulEon1 votes

I don't know, I feel like he's 1/2 niche and 1/2 underpowered. Like if hes a battle mage, why is he so squishy?

Also, people would complain so much if Karthus ever became meta because of his ult even tho there are clear weaknesses and counterplay to him in general. I feel like Riot has to keep him in his current niche spot, otherwise people would flip shit and post board discussions everywhere saying "balanced" and "no counterplay" about Karthus.

Maybe If they just changed his Wall, or maybe gave his W spellvamp like Ryze he could be better at fighting up close.

TheEggterminator2 votes

HIs ult is becoming easier counter with new updates. A lot of the new champs have invulnerability, and his ult cooldown is SUPER long. His ult just doesn't have the same effect it used to :(

blackcat13001 votes

People complain about him now. The yet he has sean competitive play every season despite these nefs but what would they do if he stopped seeing any play competitively or in high elo just do to how bad his kit became.

Quepha1 votes

Urgot, Galio, and Taric all have/had fundamental problems with how their kits work that made them unbalance-able.

Nothing about Karthus' kit seems out-of-date to me, his passive is going to eternally be a pretty effective way at making the enemy think twice about diving him no matter what Riot adds to assassin kits since the kill doesn't even pay off until several seconds afterwards and guarantees his ultimate will be uninterruptible.

We also all need to wait and see how the MYMU affects the game and Karthus since he'll be getting some new items, his main competitors for the mid lane slot are going through some changes that may keep them from stepping on Karthus' toes, and all of this is going to probably shake up the meta in ways we don't expect.

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