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If Support is about Zoning then why not use an Aggressive champ / AP/ADC as Support?

Zyxy··2 votes·1,083 views

I've been reading various posts online about Supports and the main thing that seems important is zoning.

So if that's the case why not use an aggressive ap or ad champion for Support. I understand that the Top Tier supports I'm seeing in worlds seem to be being picked due to CC. As an example Caitlyn. With her traps / net she can cause frustration in lane for the enemies. Cait could use support items for gp and could still get wards / trinket like a normal support. Instead of using her R as a finisher, she can use it to take the wind out of the sails for her enemy lanemates. It seems that having an ad supp would really help with pushing towers as well (more so than an AP Supp). There are items available from the shop that combine AD with MR / HP / Armor so the AD supp could still end up being relatively tanky instead of focusing AD.

Please and thanks, I'm curious in the responses / perspective

19 Comments

CrazedPorcupine3 votes

because CC threat is WAY more powerful to zone than simply an aggressive support.

Also, because gold income is really low in the support role Aggressive champs fall off very hard, very quickly. Tanks and CC never fall off though, making them better as the game goes on. Plus the ability to peel and disengage using CC is much more valuable than simply dealing damage.

Lost R4 votes

That depends on the champion. Vel'Koz and Brand make great supports because of the range they have (and Vel'koz's ability to vector his shots) and neither require more than one item (two if you're daring) to start dishing out serious pain; whatever crowd control they do have is just icing on the cake. With just Liandri's Torment, there are very few games where anyone else on the team does more damage than me as Support Brand.

People are so obsessed with dealing all the damage up front in one giant nuke as fast as possible. No one wants to give credit to the idea of wearing the enemy down over time. It won't kill them as often, but it forces them out of the lane and their absence is just as good.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Also, Vel'Koz and Brand (Zyra too) work well because of how their kits work and how well they all scale with Mpen. Brand doesn't need high AP to deal 8% of enemies' max HP with every spell. Vel'Koz has high bases but fairly low ratios, and does a good bit of flat, level-scaling true damage. Zyra has mediocre ratios, and her plants scale with her level and can proc Liandry's. All three have at least one form of hard CC.

Basically, item 2049 item 3020 item 3151 and you are set with any of these three.

7ha7guy7772 votes

Generally, apcs and adcs are more gold reliant than designated supports. Apcs are also level reliant. Certain cc heavy apcs brand, annie, anivia, etc. can function as supports but most teams prefer more traditional supports. If you know what you're doing though malz and vel'koz could be used as zoning supports relatively effectively due to their high base damages

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

If you know what you're doing though malz and vel'koz could be used as zoning supports relatively effectively due to their high base damages

lol, Mordekaiser thought he could escape Malzahar by running from mid to bot lane, but he was fucking wrong!!

7ha7guy7771 votes

To be fair, morde is 15 ms slower than malz

Zyxy2 votes

Thanks for all the responses!

I get nervous about getting flamed in solo queue by choosing non-typical meta champs. I'll get some folks together and give it a whirl.

The Brand point is good but I'll admit that I'm leaning towards an off-ADC due to increasing tower taking ability. In my mind it's like giving the ADC side guns :)

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for all the responses!

I get nervous about getting flamed in solo queue by choosing non-typical meta champs. I'll get some folks together and give it a whirl.

The Brand point is good but I'll admit that I'm leaning towards an off-ADC due to increasing tower taking ability. In my mind it's like giving the ADC side guns :)

Non-typical meta picks are fine by me, but not in ranked. Ranked should be a place where you stick to what you know and try to win as hard as you can. Otherwise, what's the point? If you're going to play it like a normals, go play normals, right?

Angel VII2 votes

Hmm.... jinx chompers, MF circle of slows, Caitlin traps, Teemo shrooms,

Try ALL the things! ^_^

Bazerald1 votes

People tried that, but then they'd get 'reported for trolling' and stuff. The only time you could ever start up a game with whatever team comp you want and play that lane however you wanted was in S1 and anything preceding that.

Jbels1 votes

Because they scale terribly if they don't get much needed gold. Support items are cheaper, which means the GP10 items they have access to will ensure they get to them faster. Relic shield or ancient coin will NOT get a support caitlin damage items quickly, and she's more than likely to become a liability to her team without those damage items

Poop Jelly1 votes

Because if you succeed in overcoming the zoning part, utility supports mean much better in teamfight in general and for your ADC in specific =]]

On the other hand, this one time I locked in Caitlyn as an act of panic and was forced to support a vayne (Vayne & caitlyn became friends, u don't see that everyday). I turned out to be a pretty annoying support. But then as time gone by i chose to buy support items because i never had enough gold when backing to grab some damage items. So you can guess, I'm turned into a sucky utility support and we lost...

Even if I had enough income for a BF early game, I will still fall off very hard mid to late game. No point in going AD if you decide to support as ADC.

Angel VII1 votes

Get some of your friends together and TRY IT OUT! You never know how it might work! There's been a big uprising of using mages with some CC as support. Once upon a time you almost only saw Annie mid, and now she's regularly seen as support.

Someone has got to be the guinea pig for new ideas, why not Zyxy? =) It sounds like you have several ideas worth trying. I'm certain that you could find 4 other players willing to support you giving it a shot. You might discover something amazing no one's thought of before, who knows? ^_^

I think ANYTHING is worth a shot for fun or experimentation! Just make sure your teammates are down for your experiment before you try it out! lol ;)

I'd volunteer to help you try something funky and new out, even if it means a loss. A loss is no big deal. I'm here for the lols and the fun of the game. Found someone doing AD Sona the other day, never heard of it before, but she totally made it work!

Best of luck in you endeavor!

Zyxy1 votes

@AngelVII - Good point about Annie, yeah as far as I can tell she makes good support because of her harass... that and as per JBELS comment, Annie apparently does not fall off late / can still get good enough gp / items to help the team late game instead of becoming a liability.

I've played a bit a Nidalee and tried to play Supp with Traps and Heals but that never created positive zoning for my ADC so there ended up being frustration. They really like the heals and having a bottom map littered with traps but had trouble getting CS due to lack of zone.

I was watching Pakushy's video about Zoning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1vk_s8OVwE)

That's what gave me the idea. I figured if Support = Zoning + CC + Bonus: Take towers faster, well then an off-adc, if a given champs kit is viable, seems to make sense.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Good point about Annie, yeah as far as I can tell she makes good support because of her harass... that and as per JBELS comment, Annie apparently does not fall off late / can still get good enough gp / items to help the team late game instead of becoming a liability.

Annie isn't a marksman who relies on damage items? Don't remember saying anything about Annie being a bad support, she's not too item reliant and she has unavoidable CC

Angel VII1 votes

{quoted}

Annie isn't a marksman who relies on damage items?

Annie is a mage who relied/still relies when mid on expensive AP items though. =) My point was to point out a champion who's meta has drastically changed, like Zyxy was suggesting trying.

Zyxy1 votes

{quoted}

Annie isn't a marksman who relies on damage items? Don't remember saying anything about Annie being a bad support, she's not too item reliant and she has unavoidable CC

-Agreed, sorry, wasn't saying Annie's a marksman that relies on Damage items. Also wasn't saying Annie's a bad support, was trying to agree that she's a good support / can be. Her kit makes her good for Aggressive Zoning. Annie's got good CC and Damage at low levels.

JustJayson1 votes

Support isnt about zoning, its usually an engage or disengage champ that is not heavily reliant on items

LVL 5 PORO1 votes

The supports job isnt to zone. While that is one of their jobs, it isnt the only one. Zoning is mostly used in the laning phase but after that, not so much. Combat wise, the supports job is to set picks, protect their adc, and control the battle field. You cannot do that with pure damage. If I play nami into a pure damage bot lane they always lose. Why? If all you have is damage you're useless. My sustain will beat your damage every time. Also, supports have the least amount of gold on the team. A carry cannot function without gold. They will hit like a limp noodle. So if the only thing you provide is damage, which will be severely bad unless you get ahead, you provide nothing at all.

Also a glass cannon cannot control the battle field or protect their carry. The whole point of a support is to provide utility that doesnt fall off. The ADC does thr most damage, and therefore is the biggest threat. If you cant protect him the enemy team will jump on him every time. And how will you win fights without a carry? Its not a very optimal play style.

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