Brainstorming New Jungle Items

Raekwaanza·7/14/2015, 10:07:38 AM·18 votes·1,288 views

I recently just watched this video and realized that a lot of what Stonewall says is practical. As it stands, from my viewpoint, the new jungle only caters to a few. Whenever one of the jungle items is changed in someway, it seems that the champions (and play styles) that benefit the most will become almost completely dominant. Now either way any change to the game will have some sort of similar affect, however, due to the nature of the jungle, these changes (as small as they seem to be) always have the greatest effect on the game. For example, before the changes to the jungle it felt as if you had much more options to jungle with. Not to say that the options available to you where actually usable as to your team composition or the meta in general; but you were actually able to start a game and at 1:55 you wouldn't be at too much of an advantage or disadvantage. Now it feels that if you want to jungle you're going to be stuck with very few options available to you, as it feels the items that have the greatest benefit are what have to chosen. In all honesty this will always happen, but it seems that there are never situational item picks. Its just "pick this, hope your item benefits your jungler more, if so, bully the enemy into submission, if not, attempt benefit your team in a greater way than your opponent is". After watching this I believe that these ideas could be amazing if implemented correctly; I just hope someone looks at this and at least recognizes that something of this sort could be done.

13 Comments

g07h4xf007/14/2015, 8:11:03 PM3 votes

Riot just needs to add a crapload of new items. Back in season two there were plenty of awesome items (RIP Force of Nature). Bring some of them back and introduce newer items. Itemization in this game is too fucking dull.

Hard4Hamsters7/14/2015, 8:19:51 PM3 votes

I really like this idea. Items like Quill Coat and Spirit Stone would probably need tweaked a little as they are essentially upgraded machettes, basically bringing down the items to a level more on par with Machette on AD junglers, taking away the 20armor from quillcoat and reducing the bonus damage on Spirit Stone would be necessary. I see a problem with having Quill Coat and Cinderhulk Enchant at the same time as the sapping barbs and immolate passives would be strange to balance around when it comes to Baron and Dragon, but there is a possibility to add a part of the passive to include special interactions with Epic Monsters.

I really like the idea of bringing back Juggernaut and Magus as I thought it was kinda BS that different styles of AP and Tank junglers got screwed in the process. I will say that Runeglaive and Cinderhulk were overall better than both of these old enchants, but some champions really wanted CDR and Tenacity over clearspeed, moderate damage, and lategame tankiness. For instance, Elise was a champion who benefited heavily from the old Juggernaut over Cinderhulk as she wanted immediate stats that could be useful instead of scaling stats that would try and help her weak lategame. Her clearspeed was already among the fastest in the game, so Cinderhulk didn't help her there either, but I think it is still a better option than Runeglaive or Magus. Other champions that would use Juggernaut over Cinderhulk would be strong initiators and more midgame focused tanks/fighters, but some would have to make a choice on whether to get Juggernaut or Cinderhulk based on the situation and what the team needs.

I like the Guardian's Horn passive/active idea as a replacement for Tenacity as it makes you feel like this unstoppable juggernaut chasing down the enemy team. Magus I still think needs a little tweaking as I do think it is too generic. I feel like it would be difficult to make it so Runeglaive and Magus have unique strengths as you can easily see the difference in strengths of Cinderhulk and Juggernaut one being a more initiator focused, or mid-game focused item and the other being more of a power farming tool and lategame hyper tank item. Runeglaive is obviously going to be for spellblade users which are more focused on the early and midgame assassination potential they have, so I see it as pretty fine where it is (though it might be OP right now), but Magus is tricky as the item should be for pure Mages but it shouldn't be just hands down better than Runeglaive for spellblade champions, so giving it a worthwhile passive/active would be hard to do. I REALLY like 20%CDR for Magus as it encourages these Mages to use more and more abilities, but the amount of AP it should give is dependent on how strong the Magus passive would be.

As a little side note, I think Warrior is too generic as well right now; it has had an iteration on the PBE that looked a lot like the old SotEL, but was taken off probably due to it being too strong on certain junglers (*cough LeeSin). I do think that this idea is still solid, but needs tweaking to not just favor the highest base damage junglers.

Basically what I want to ask anyone who reads this rant is what passive/active they would give Magus that would make it strong on the Mage junglers without being hand down better than Runeglaive on everyone (Eve, Diana, Fizz, and Ekko should probably want Runeglaive if they are going AP; judgement call on Nidalee as CDR and more AP benefits her siege power). While writing this I've thought about something that might work. Magus could include a smaller Liandry's style DOT passive (1% instead of 2%). Most of the pure mage junglers have some sort of spammable or DOT ability that would keep the passive on at all times and it would help them with clears as well. The enchant could have 60AP and would be a definite different strength for an AP jungler to have. So in the end, the AP jungler would choose between burst damage in Runeglaive, or consistent damage in Magus which benefits different junglers in different ways.

So my suggestion for a relaunched Magus would go as follows. Magus Enchant: 60AP__ 20%CDR__Unique Passive--Burning Tears: Dealing spell damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus magic damage equal to 1% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds. This bonus damage is doubled against monsters and movement-impaired enemy units (capped at 100 damage per second vs. monsters). This could be modified if it is overpowered or underpowered but I think it is particularly strong on champions like Karthus, Fiddles, and Amumu. The Burning Tears passive would have to be added to Liandry's to make sure the passives couldn't stack. Tell me what you think. Peace.

Jungle Lux God7/14/2015, 11:37:51 PM2 votes

A lot of Stonewall's ideas are good, and he has a pretty solid understanding of the jungle, but I'm not sure that I like his ideas.

Adding two jungle enchantments for each type of champion (AD, AP, and tanks) actually threatens jungle diversity a lot more than having a one-size-fits-all enchantment. With two enchantments, the entire jungle champion pool of each class would be skewed to whichever enchantment is stronger, and everyone that would rather take the other enchantment would either take the stronger enchantment or take the weaker enchantment and be at a disadvantage either way.

This is an especially big problem for a AP junglers because there are so few meta AP junglers and there are so many AP champions that could be good junglers but don't have bad enough mana problems that they can't use Magus but have bad enough synergy with Sheen effects to use Runeglaive. It's like you have two jungle items in the game and a third is needed to give diversity.

Three starting items for each type of champion (AD, AP, and tanks) also seems like a good idea, but I'm afraid that it makes the jungle too complex. With one starting option, it's easy to see which starting option is the best because there's only one starting option.

Three starting options makes it harder for players to determine whichever starting option is the best because there are a lot more variables to check (especially since there are no stats on any of them to specically point you in the right direction), with some differences in how the jungle items would work, especially the new Quill Coat, whose description sounds super confusing and might cause some gameplay clarity problems with Tahm Kench and other champions that use the grey health system in the future. This isn't a problem for experienced jungle players, but for newer players the jungle might be unplayably complex.

Lickmymeatyjunk7/14/2015, 1:01:07 PM1 votes

I fell like Riot just needs time to get the balancing right on these new items, before we can even think about the play styles with them.

Remlap12237/15/2015, 12:14:16 AM1 votes

Honestly, bring back Magus and remove Sated Devourer. Bring back Juggernaut and rework Poacher's Knife.

You can use the yellow gemstone from Sated Devourer to Runeglaive, and make Cinderhulk's orange or something.

Magus would have the same stats that it did, with the CDR being replaced with spell vamp.

Juggernaut gives tenacity like it did, and give it something to spice it up and differentiate it from Cinderhulk.

Ironclad Dragon7/15/2015, 6:21:19 AM1 votes

Call me a sucker who can't see past his own aesthetic tastes. There's only one reason I'm not fully on-board for this; I've grown attached to this system with a seeming order and scheme to it. It has no effect on gameplay (as these changes would), but still.

Put simply, I like the all-purpose blade evolving into a more specialized tool for what you need. The machete turns into a poacher's knife, a ranger's axe, a stalker's sword, a skirmisher's saber; all still blades. I like how every jungle "blade" has a slot for their gem enchantment, which you can actually see in the slot. That just makes sense in my head –it's a treat. There'd need to be an order to these new items. Tanks get spiky quilt, mages get a rock, and AD gets a machete?

My gripe is totally meaningless, but there's the compulsion to make it "right".