Nasus needs a rework just as badly as Tryndamere.

LoveThief··3 votes·764 views

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Nasus's play pattern is not healthy in its current iteration.

We can all agree that Tryndamere's kit is broken. He's either abysmally weak or oppressively strong in any given meta. Invulnerability is part of his problem, but I think the main issue is that it's impossible to deliver on his gameplay fantasy in a healthy way.

News flash: Tryndamere and Nasus share nearly the same gameplay fantasy; that fantasy being, "pretty weak early on, but scales into a monster in the lategame."

First, let's identify the supposed windows of power of these champions. Nasus and Tryndamere are supposed to be weak early, and thus should be susceptible to bullying and harass to keep them useless for as long as possible. Then, if they managed to not fall too far behind, they're supposed to be stronger than the average champion and be able to steamroll most champions. If either of them gets ahead early, either through kills or staying even in CS, they can come online as early as 15 minutes.

Now, let's take a look at the ACTUAL windows of power for these champions. Tryndamere's early is entirely based around RNG. If he's unlucky, he gets bullied early on as he should and is useless until 25 minutes, as it should be. If he gets kills, he comes online around 15/20 minutes. Fair enough. Tryndamere's power windows are mostly okay. He needs a rework because the early game RNG feels bad to play against (no one likes losing to luck) and because invulnerability is generally unhealthy for LoL because it lacks counterplay (especially on a melee hypercarry).

What about Nasus's windows of power? In the early game, he's fairly susceptible to bullying. The problem with his early game is that he has a ranged waveclear tool that he can max if the lane is too difficult to farm with Q, and also that if you cannot burst him down and force him to back in one rotation of spells early, Corrupting Pot and his innate lifesteal means he gets to stay in lane. He might not get many stacks, but he can stay in lane for EXP. Nasus's lategame is supposed to be centered around being unkillable, doing metric fucktons of damage (given that he farmed fairly well and didnt fall off the face of the earth in lane) but also that he can be counterplayed by kiting. Nasus's power doesn't come online until it's possible for teams to potentially peel him or kite him. He doesn't have mobility in the lategame, so really no matter how well he farms it doesn't matter because he won't get to anyone. In Nasus's current iteration, he's too weak in the lategame I think.

However, the real problem in his midgame. Remember how I mentioned before how if either of these champions get kills, ideally they'll come online earlier? Doesn't apply to Nasus. With the Q buff to his ultimate, he comes online the second he hits 6 and has sheen. If you're playing a laner without mobility, you physically cannot fight or farm near Nasus anymore once he gets his ultimate and sheen. He doesn't have to play around any conditions or outplay you at all. He just wins through pure stats alone if you are past halfway up the lane and in range of his W. Nasus can be 0/2 with 30cs when he hits 6, but it doesn't matter because of the frontloaded tankiness on his ultimate and outrageous slow on his W. Nasus is outright too strong in the midgame, and has no counterplay aside from "don't go near him, ever."

Let's review. Tryndamere needs a rework because his power varies too much with meta, invulnerability is unfun to play against and lacks counterplay, and because RNG feels bad to lose to.

Nasus's power varies arguably more than Tryndamere's, depending on how far along the game is, often wins fights through pure stats alone during the phase of the game where he's supposed to be weak and abusable, and rather than having RNG as a crutch, he has innate sustain that effectively prevents bullying.

If we're honest, Tryndamere likely even delivers on the gameplay fantasy better. Nasus is useless as hell lategame against a team that has any hard CC and a competent ADC. Nasus doesn't deliver on his fantasy and has many of the same problems (or similar) as Trynd. I honestly think he deserves a rework just as much, if not more.

3 Comments

Bronze 6 Yasuo3 votes

And both of them have clear weaknesses.

CROWD CONTROL.

LoveThief2 votes

I never claimed either were OP. I claimed Nasus doesn't satisfy his fantasy because he's TOO weak to CC in the lategame. The problem is that he's too strong in the midgame when ADCs can't successfully kite him yet and when teams aren't grouped to CC him.

Tryndamere fits the power curve a bit better but still feels bad lategame because he can 2 shot squishies and can go invulnerable for 5 seconds. Think of it this way... if you waste 5 seconds worth of CC on Tryndamere, you've then allowed the enemy ADC to go unchecked for 5 seconds. There's no winning and it feels bad.

Ravenous Howls1 votes

There is nothing wrong with your assessment but you fail to offer any meaningful changes that would:

  1. Retain there identity and fantasy

  2. What kit changes would make them more fair and balanced.

They are champs from an earlier time when League was new, and true they have not aged into the current META well, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of ideas that would not make them entirely different champion or completely ruin their identities. Ex Galio... I loath his new identity with a passion... So I am hesitant to say yes I would like to see Nasus Modernized and Tryn but not at the expense of them becoming complete new champions with no semblance of their original concept.

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