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Poacher's Knife Rework Idea/New "Buff Delivery" Smite

Shykorus··2 votes·1,088 views

This is based on doing a remake for the Poacher's Knife, purely because I have only seen the Poacher's Knife taken maybe twice in 100 recently played games. If an Item has this rare a taking for Junglers, it's probably because it's not delivering in what Junglers want. Now also keep in mind I am an ADC main so I'm not a LCS Jungler or anything.

Poacher's Knife gives you extra gold, a cooldown reduction and a movement speed buff when smiting from the enemy's Jungle... This is nice but... why would we take this over the other 3? Think about it: Ranger's Trailblazer- I stun a camp and restore HP and Mana - Perfect for sustain Skirmisher's Sabre- Gives me true damage on-hit and reduces damage taken - Perfect for 1v1's Stalker's Blade- Small amount of true damage and a much needed movement speed for those having trouble keeping up - Perfect for Junglers with low CC And then... there's this thing... Poacher's Knife- I get some extra stuff from taking the other guys Camps ..... ..... Anyone else thinks this seems a bit.. worthless?? If you try take his camps but you have no sustain, he can use Rangers to get a lead over you in HP/Mana If you try to 1v1 him with his Sabre, you will lose the 1v1 If you try escape while he has Stalkers... you're not going anywhere fast... This is why I think it would be wise to Rework Poachers into something a bit more "widely-useful"..

Here's my rework: (Again.. I'm an ADC main and don't Jungle too often and only had this thought about 15 minutes ago while having breakfast) Poacher's Knife does increased damage to minions & monsters. While the other smites do 400 (for eg), Poachers at the same champion level will do 520. At level 18, the other 3 smites will do 1000, however, Poachers Knife will do 1400. Also, I gave it the nick name "Buff Deliverer" because once you smite Red or Blue buff, you have 10 seconds before you will actually receive the buff. Why you may ask? Because during that 10 seconds, your smite will be coated with a Red or Blue ring depending on which buff you smited. If you smite Blue buff and walk into your Ahri's lane. SMITE HER. She now has blue buff, but you have all the Gold & Exp and she didn't even need to move. If you don't smite anyone else, just smite yourself or wait the 10 seconds and you get the buff. Now this last benefit, I don't know if it's too much for 1 smite (Probably) or which of these 2 (if not both) should be added to the new Poachers. Option 1: Smiting an enemy WITH the Blue or Red buff on them, will Temporarily disable it. They icons on your champions bar will turn grey for 4 seconds. During that 4 seconds, you will not get the slow/true damage from Red Buff and you won't get increased mana regen/20% Cooldown reduction. For 4 seconds. Option 2: Smiting a monster from the Jungle or River makes it invulnerable (like a Zhonyas) to all sources of damage, other than your own (Or team, not sure) Meaning, if you miss your smite, that's ok because you have 2 seconds to deal the remaining damage to kill. It means steals won't work against someone with Poachers. If they smite Baron on 2000 HP, now it only has 600 and Level 18, but it's immune to the enemy teams damage for 2 seconds, meaning your team can kill it in that 2 seconds without having to worry about steals.

Personally, after writing this, I want this to actually exist, because I want to use it right now HAHAHHAHA xD Anyway, I'm hoping Riot sees this because I think it would improve Poacher's IMMENSELY~ But lets be honest, if you add everything I've put down to the letter here into an Item, it would be pretty broken HAHA Drop a comment on an improvement or what not. Or if you take Poachers almost every game and think it's ok, tell me/us more. Anyway, hope you like the idea, I sure hope Riot likes the idea :P and thanks for reading the whole wall of text this far, give yourself a pat on the back :3

Regards, Shykorus xoxox

7 Comments

junglerboy163 votes

That is an extremely complicated item that does literally nothing that a jungler would want (except the second option for smiting epic monsters, but that is such an unfair low counterplay idea that it should never ever see the light of day). Poachers right now is actually on the verge of making an appearance as a strong counterjungling item to shut down devourer stackers, and this buff does not actually make it a better item in any situation for any jungler. It makes it better if Junglers existed to be the servant for their laners (oh you poor thing busy in mid lane, let me bring your buff to you on a silver platter since you can't bother yourself to clear it on your own) getting a tiny little bit of extra gold and EXP from the buff monsters for a whole smite item is not worthwhile.

The only buff I think Poacher's needs is making it increase the duration/strength of smite buffs by 50%.

Shykorus1 votes

Judging from your name and looking at how you deliver buffs... Sounds like you're the kinda guy who gets blamed 3/4 of the time for failing to help team mates :P My 2 friends who main Jungle have looked this over and agree this would help Poacher's in a TON of ways. So saying "Does literally nothing a Jungler would want" .... is a bit incorrect. They think option 1 is pretty much pointless. Fair enough. Option 2 is a bit OP and would need tweeking before it went into play but combined with the increased true damage would make a powerful smite, a smite geared specifically towards not losing Jungle objectives.

Qarekeo1 votes

The problem I see with Poacher's Knife is that it's a gold income item (like the support items) that gives no other benefits and requires a risky playstyle to use.

In contrast, all the support income items provide raw statistics, a safe source of income and an active ability to justify the lack of farming they require to use well. Poacher's Knife's initial cost essentially defeats it's rewards.

What I'd look at is the incentives to counter-jungle (Vision/map control, extra gold, gold and buff denial of the enemy jungler) and the risks (Being counter-ganked by a laner or caught at low health).

Considering both of these together, a component that made being a counter-jungler more gold efficient to counterbalance the natural risk and making counter-jungling safer would be satisfying. Also, since I mentioned map control, I notice an advantage no other jungling item gives: vision.

Which leads me to a revision to it's smite component; what if, when casting Smite on an enemy jungle monster, it left a temporary stealth ward behind where smite was cast? This would save a jungler money by covering their vision need, surprise the enemy jungler by baiting them into being seen and thus giving map control, and let the counter-jungle be able to see whether the enemy jungler notices them if they turn back towards their side of the map.

I think that sounds like a fun and interactive way to rework Poacher's Knife, and it could be counterplayed by using Sweeping Lens or Raptor Buffs near conspicuously missing monster camps.

What do you think? It was a kind of on-the-spot idea for me that might need feedback.

M Dragon141 votes

{quoted}

The problem I see with Poacher's Knife is that it's a gold income item (like the support items) that gives no other benefits and requires a risky playstyle to use.

In contrast, all the support income items provide raw statistics, a safe source of income and an active ability to justify the lack of farming they require to use well. Poacher's Knife's initial cost essentially defeats it's rewards.

What I'd look at is the incentives to counter-jungle (Vision/map control, extra gold, gold and buff denial of the enemy jungler) and the risks (Being counter-ganked by a laner or caught at low health).

Considering both of these together, a component that made being a counter-jungler more gold efficient to counterbalance the natural risk and making counter-jungling safer would be satisfying. Also, since I mentioned map control, I notice an advantage no other jungling item gives: vision.

Which leads me to a revision to it's smite component; what if, when casting Smite on an enemy jungle monster, it left a temporary stealth ward behind where smite was cast? This would save a jungler money by covering their vision need, surprise the enemy jungler by baiting them into being seen and thus giving map control, and let the counter-jungle be able to see whether the enemy jungler notices them if they turn back towards their side of the map.

I think that sounds like a fun and interactive way to rework Poacher's Knife, and it could be counterplayed by using Sweeping Lens or Raptor Buffs near conspicuously missing monster camps.

What do you think? It was a kind of on-the-spot idea for me that might need feedback.

Why not allow the jungler to place the "ward" after smite is cast? Make it like the old jungle Item (forget the name), except it has only one charge, and you have to place the ward within like 5-10 seconds after smite was cast.

Edit: the only issue I see with this, however, is that the gold value of this is probably less than just getting a SS and another smite.... I would think to make it worth more is making it where you either do increased damage to enemy-side and river monsters (including baron/dragon) or reducing their damage overall, the longer the fight is up to a specific cap (this bonus would be w/o having to smite). Personally I think making the monsters do less damage would make more sense, and make contesting dragons/baron's less risky for you and your team. This would also help some with the invading, making them take less damage thus less risk.

Qarekeo1 votes

You mean tying the ward to an active like non-jungling items have after smiting a monster and gaining a charge? That sounds like it would feel really good to use if Riot would allow it that design. The Smite buffs other jungle items gives seems to replace the active abilities they would otherwise give. Either way, I like your idea.

Also, just the free wards alone probably wouldn't be gold efficient for a long time if it was all it offered. Smite can be cast a LOT more than it used to, so it may also have a lot more hidden power than it looks initially.

Also, lowering damage would probably lower the risk of counter-jungling so low that the enemy wouldn't be able to react if the counter-jungler even entered their jungle. Either at least one of the bonuses it has now or one to increase jungler pressure like increased damage to monsters might fit the playstyle better and be easier to play against.

Maybe an aura that increased allies' damage to jungle monsters would fit that well. This may bring in double-jungle comps, so if that's not desired or tolerated it could only apply to certain monster like Dragon/Baron or Red/Blue buff.

M Dragon141 votes

{quoted}

You mean tying the ward to an active like non-jungling items have after smiting a monster and gaining a charge? That sounds like it would feel really good to use if Riot would allow it that design. The Smite buffs other jungle items gives seems to replace the active abilities they would otherwise give. Either way, I like your idea.

Also, just the free wards alone probably wouldn't be gold efficient for a long time if it was all it offered. Smite can be cast a LOT more than it used to, so it may also have a lot more hidden power than it looks initially.

Also, lowering damage would probably lower the risk of counter-jungling so low that the enemy wouldn't be able to react if the counter-jungler even entered their jungle. Either at least one of the bonuses it has now or one to increase jungler pressure like increased damage to monsters might fit the playstyle better and be easier to play against.

Maybe an aura that increased allies' damage to jungle monsters would fit that well. This may bring in double-jungle comps, so if that's not desired or tolerated it could only apply to certain monster like Dragon/Baron or Red/Blue buff.

Yeah, I was thinking a kind of aura, also, increasing the damage seems to make more sense too

RogueWill1 votes

I would get poachers if it will reduce the cd on my camps as well, that way if my risky move fails i just dont fell irremediably behind

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