Why are there penalties for dodging?

KidAnivia··4 votes·364 views

First of all I'm putting this on gameplay and balance because it directly affects about 66% of my ranked games and I'm positive I'm not the only one who suffers lp loss every time somebody decides to troll.

There are so many trolls in ranked and it pisses me off that they either say they're going to troll in champ select so I have to dodge, they get away free, and I'm penalized, or half way through the game they say something to the likes of "I'm gonna throw so this noob sivir can't win." I then half to suck up to these assholes because I want lp. So I don't really understand the idea behind penalizing dodging, dodging in no way creates a toxic enviorment, and in fact helps enlighten the community and get you to a match with more friendly people.

If you don't play ranked or if this somehow doesn't happen to you here is an example of what I'm talking about. "KingRages" locked in Lux after fizz locked in fizz. Fizz had pick order but neither of them wanted to give up their precious mid lane so I dodged. I'm now sitting at -10 lp with a 16 minute wait on my next queue. If someone thinks that this system did its job correctly and the intentional punishment was served justly please comment.

-JacKk

10 Comments

Zuil3 votes

If there was no penalty for leaving, people would be leaving games cause they didnt get their role.

What the game does need is a vote to disband lobby where you and 2 others need to vote yes to disband a lobby if there is a troll.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Should be a supermajority 4-1 vote just like when surrendering a match. "Well duo trolls can avoid this"; well, they can do it during the match to stop a surrender too. If it's good enough for the match, why not the lobby right?

Zuil1 votes

It's best to stop a troll in it's tracks when possible.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

The easier you make it to punish trolls, the easier it is for it to affect innocent players. This is a fine line which Riot has to be aware of when doing things like this.

Lord Boltrix1 votes

Any system can be abused, because there are always people looking to abuse the system, you can't use that as justification to prevent meaningful change if a seldom few people suffer. For the greater good, and all that jazz.

So let's look at how the current system of dealing with trolls works.

Currently, trolling can only be punished after the game has been completed, and people who aren't trolling but suffer due to the presence of a troll are punished with a variable disadvantage for no fault of their own. You can't control another person, there is literally nothing you can do to make a guaranteed shift in a person's mindset if they decide to troll.

A person who trolls in ranked may eventually be restricted from ranked, but they will keep doing it, possibly finding ways to 'cheat' the system or go troll in normals until they can go back to ranked. If you permaban their account, there is literally nothing you can do to prevent them from making another one and starting from scratch to troll again. At this point, all you could do is try to perma-ip ban the troll, and that only opens an avenue for trolls to screw over people in other ways.

The current system enables trolls in such a way it is almost disgusting, and I am being as neutral and unbiased as possible when I say this. The simplest means of defeating a troll is to not interact with a troll, but the nature of the game in its current state makes this virtually impossible. So the next best thing would be to open avenues to allow people to avoid trolls.

So my suggestion is a step-forward: stop trolling when it happens in champ select. Vote-kick is too ripe for abuse, so the simple option to disband the champ-select should be considered.

Each person in the select should have a vote, with a simply majority ruling to disband the group. On the subject of duo-queues, each duo queue together should only constitute one vote, with each duo-queue having to have a unanimous agreement between themselves for their vote to count. So a duo queue in response to a vote to disband the select would have to either both decide no, or both decide yes. That way, if a duo-queue decides to troll, they still would not have an advantage in terms of vote numbers (3 votes to 1 for a single duo queue, or 2 votes to 1 for two duo queues).

The downside to this is that people might just spend all day select-dodging, but the only result is that they will waste their time trying to find that perfect champ select start. I am for the belief that a potentially extensive waiting time should not be the reason a feature is not added.

An option should also be added so that a person may select people in their team's champ select that they will not queue up with the same people if they end up disbanding the queue. Sometimes, you may not end up with a troll, but a person who you might have an argument with in champ select, so you never know what might occur between you and that person, they might decide to feed simply to grief you. Often times the warning signs can be seen as early as the champ select, so if the team disbands before the game passes through, you shouldn't have to disband and end up with the same person you felt that you would have issues with if you had played with them.

So what do you think?

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

The downside to this is that people might just spend all day select-dodging, but the only result is that they will waste their time trying to find that perfect champ select start.

This is precisely why it will never happen; people are perfectly willing to drastically inflate everyone's queue time just so they can increase their odds at winning by waiting for a good team (it won't just increase their time, it increases the queue for everyone). For this, it's not possible to implement any form of free dodging in Ranked; selectively punishing trolls is the only option. I don't really agree with any of the options presented in this thread.

An option should also be added so that a person may select people in their team's champ select that they will not queue up with the same people if they end up disbanding the queue.

Blacklisting players has a very negligible benefit for nearly all players, and for a select few (those at the very highest elo) it is abusable. For lower tiers, the queue pool is so huge that almost the only reason you ever see the same person twice is because you both left your match or lobby at the same time and requeued at the same time. For the highest elo players, they see each other often because of the small pool of players in the queue; here it is abusable because rather than just blacklisting a toxic player, you blacklist everybody that plays the role you do and poof you just artificially increased your chance at getting your role and winning more than those that don't abuse it.

To avoid playing with someone you just did and don't want to again, wait to requeue so the chance of finding a match at the same time as them is next to zero. Maybe if you could only Blacklist like 5 players at a time it'd work?

Lord Boltrix1 votes

For this, it's not possible to implement any form of free dodging in Ranked; selectively punishing trolls is the only option.

And I have to disagree with you there, because the system currently can't punish trolls in a way that is meaningful in any way which would discourage them or reduce the effectiveness of their actions. If you can offer a system that would meaningfully punish trolls in a way to discourage them from trolling in any amount, I would be happy with an alternative suggestion.

And yes, excessively dodging is a problem, so why not put people on a lockout if they dodge too many games? It doesn't have to affect their LP in any way, simply make it so they can't queue for ranked matches for x amount of minutes if they dodge too many matches. It would be an ironic punishment if they try to abuse the system in trying to wait things out to get the best advantage - and I admit you are right that it would affect other people as well - but then they get their just desserts by being locked out of ranked.

Blacklisting players has a very negligible benefit for nearly all players, and for a select few (those at the very highest elo) it is abusable. For lower tiers, the queue pool is so huge that almost the only reason you ever see the same person twice is because you both left your match or lobby at the same time and requeued at the same time. For the highest elo players, they see each other often because of the small pool of players in the queue; here it is abusable because rather than just blacklisting a toxic player, you blacklist everybody that plays the role you do and poof you just artificially increased your chance at getting your role and winning more than those that don't abuse it.

To avoid playing with someone you just did and don't want to again, wait to requeue so the chance of finding a match at the same time as them is next to zero. Maybe if you could only Blacklist like 5 players at a time it'd work?

Heavens forbid, I only meant that option against queuing with a particular person to be temporary, not on any sort of permanent basis, it's just to avoid you being teamed with THAT particular person for maybe the next five to ten minutes.

Although, on that subject, perhaps it is time the oft-discussed ranked team builder be integrated into the game? If there is so much toxicity simply over getting the role you want in ranked, why not just ease that particular burden? But that is an entirely different issue altogether.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I'm hoping they bring in Ranked TB during the preseason. Being a Support main, I've lost my role only twice out of 77 games this season, but the other people on my team are not as blessed which is bad for me too.

Angry Monster2 votes

You are penalized you are not actually dodging a game. You are quitting out of the client. Dodge is a word used to make your self feel better.

KidAnivia1 votes

This is silver 2 if anybody is wondering

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