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I would like to talk about the Keystone issue people have

Peng0d··2 votes·478 views

Hey there. I just wanted to touch base with you guys about Keystones. A lot of people have complained about keystones on a variety of levels. Balancing issues I can understand, COTC being over-tuned, fervor not bringing enough to the table, and maybe Thunderlords crowds out other options. These have all existed. My issue with some of the arguments, is that they say that keystones are just bad. They were a poor choice to include in the game and they should have stuck with the older systems.

Before we go on, let me just stand and put down my opinion: Keystones are really good, and they were an amazing addition to the game. They offer choices, while some may be ideal and some not, it's not really a disgustingly large issue.

Now to hit the issue. Your context of the argument isn't very good. You want to say Keystones are a bad idea just simply due to a couple balance issues? The thought, reasoning, and setup of keystones is absolutely amazing, and offers more diverse options than the previous seasons. I agree that the balance of them may turn up pretty poor at times, but a lot of things do in this game. The overall idea of keystones though, is nice.

9 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

They attempt to offer more options but fail to do so because of how they outshine each other. I like keystones but I know they have lots of problems.

Peng0d1 votes

{quoted}

They attempt to offer more options but fail to do so because of how they outshine each other. I like keystones but I know they have lots of problems.

Exactly. Most are balanced. I feel like atm there aren't any that outshine any except for maybe COTC, but that's due to what it can do, maybe not even the numbers are that bad.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Lol no.

Peng0d1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ao4i7YdU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-28T19:11:54.637+0000)

Lol no.

Like this. A perfect example of a poor argument. No reasoning or even a solid what you disagree on. Just a childish reaction.

Astôlfo1 votes

The concept itself is fine, but them being that ridiculously strong isn't.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

IMO

Warlord's Bloodlust should be more like hextech gunblade or at least offer spellvamp since AP champs only get DFT in the Ferocity tree.

Heal for up to 15% damage dealt base on your missing health against champions. This is 33% effective for Area of Effect damage. against minions gain 50% benefit (25% for ranged champions).

and Bond of stone simply needs to be replaced. If they buff it badly, it could potentially end up overtuned

Peng0d1 votes

{quoted}

IMO

Warlord's Bloodlust should be more like hextech gunblade or at least offer spellvamp since AP champs only get DFT in the Ferocity tree.

Heal for up to 15% damage dealt base on your missing health against champions. This is 33% effective for Area of Effect damage. against minions gain 50% benefit (25% for ranged champions).

and Bond of stone simply needs to be replaced. If they buff it badly, it could potentially end up overtuned

This is a really interesting thought. I feel like it could fit in. Since it doesn't remove what the keystones all have in common per tree (Ferocity is DPS, Cunning is Burst, and Resolve is Defense).

Bond of stone is an interesting one to look at. It does get outshined unfortunately. Do you know if it was used in the pro scene for supports at all? I know most brought Grasp if they went into that tree.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

As far from what i can recall, they used grasp or thunderlords and now CotC.

As for bond. I dont remember where the 4% reduction is applied exactly. before or after Armor/MR. but out of 5.5k HP, its another 220 through the reduction. Thats not too bad but its not noticable throughout the game either.

Fervor we see more damage, Warlord its sustain, DFT doesn't look like much, but it becomes highly noticeable on champs like Jhin (or annoyingly noticeable on Pantheon/Teemo). Stormraiders is definitely noticeable, thunderlords everyone knows, Windspeakers can be noticeable but almost falls close to Bond's situation if it werent for the fact that there's not a keystone to fill a similar role and it actively strengthens what you're already doing. As a top main, grasp is definitely noticeable still and CotC is hard to miss.

the only time i find Bond of Stone more noticeable is if its on a champion with huge self sustain like Illaoi because that 4% goes a longer way then. But theres just simply better options. Grasp, Fervor, DFT, Stormraider and Thunderlords.

Either Bond needs to be more unique or it needs to be replaced.

Peng0d1 votes

{quoted}

As far from what i can recall, they used grasp or thunderlords and now CotC.

As for bond. I dont remember where the 4% reduction is applied exactly. before or after Armor/MR. but out of 5.5k HP, its another 220 through the reduction. Thats not too bad but its not noticable throughout the game either.

Fervor we see more damage, Warlord its sustain, DFT doesn't look like much, but it becomes highly noticeable on champs like Jhin (or annoyingly noticeable on Pantheon/Teemo). Stormraiders is definitely noticeable, thunderlords everyone knows, Windspeakers can be noticeable but almost falls close to Bond's situation if it werent for the fact that there's not a keystone to fill a similar role and it actively strengthens what you're already doing. As a top main, grasp is definitely noticeable still and CotC is hard to miss.

the only time i find Bond of Stone more noticeable is if its on a champion with huge self sustain like Illaoi because that 4% goes a longer way then. But theres just simply better options. Grasp, Fervor, DFT, Stormraider and Thunderlords.

Either Bond needs to be more unique or it needs to be replaced

I do agree that Bond is... lackluster compared to the others due to the numbers, and what the others offer. It is really unique and the only other thing in the game that resembles it's use is Knight's Vow. So it probably needs replacing.

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