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Katarina is Ruined

EastCoastConcept··7 votes·3,891 views

I am a Katarina main, and always have enjoyed playing her the most. Her entire kit felt as if she was made for me. Also her kit was just fun to play and although it was difficult to sort of pick up at first she eventually became a really mechanical champ that I came to love. Fast forward to a few days ago when the preseason begun, and the changes to Katarina were available for me to test out. I don't just want to make this a rant about how terrible the changes are, but the changes are terrible. They essentially removed Katarina from the game and replaced her with a champ that looks similar and does zero damage, is no fun to play, and is overall a worthless champion. I don't see why Riot felt it necessary to completely destroy some of their players favorite champs and replace them with these disasters, but they did. I may come off as fairly salty, and i am, but overall what I'm hoping to achieve with this post is possibly some thoughts on her changes from others, or even if riot somehow sees this they can fix Katarina, because right now the future for her in my opinion. Is either nobody playing her ever again after they realized for themselves how terrible the changes are for her, or someone figures out how to play her ad tank top. Either way the Katarina Ive loved for years and enjoyed playing daily. Is no more.

passive - CD -15 seconds on kills and assists. Picking up a dagger does damage (her old W spin basically) Q - throws the dagger which bounces to two other champs and lands shortly behind the enemy you threw the q at. W - throws a dagger up in the same spot you're currently at and gives you a short speed boost. E - instantly teleports you to the thing you E to and does damage to it if its an enemy, or does damage to a nearby enemy. (also gets reset EVERY time you pick up a dagger) R - Her ultimate does damage to 3 nearby champions and inflicts grievous wounds.

To be more specific with why I feel like she needs to either be reworked further, or returned to her PERFECT normal state.

1 - Her Kit sort of contradicts itself - When you ult on Katarina, you obviously cant move. Most of her damage now comes from picking up daggers from Q and W. However, the q and w daggers are not going to be where you ult. You can maybe q then e to an enemy and w before you start ulting and maybe you'll activate your passive when you're ulting but overall its just a weird inconsistent way to play. Now you're basically running around trying to pick up daggers, but still doing barely any damage and the effort it takes just to get to those daggers is just so much that playing her is now very stressful and has really bad flow.

2 - She cannot ward jump anymore. This was a huge thing for her kit, it allowed her to escape, it allowed her to chase, it was overall a great aspect to her kit. Now she is given the chance to use her E basically 3 times if you combo right. E - Q - E - W - E, or whatever, BUT it still cant be used to get over walls unless you get a very circumstantial, lucky q bounce over a wall. So she lost her escape. If there's no live ally or enemy to e to, you cannot escape. This makes her extremely clunky as hell. Usually champs are balanced enough, that if you don't have good escapes, you usually make up for it with at least a strong amount of fighting ability. Like Diana, she cant escape well, but she can really get in there and go all in and fight. Katarina is too weak to all in really at any point now. Even fully built her damage feels like its tremendously lacking. On top of not being able to escape, she also lost her E's 15% damage reduction when using shunpo. Without that damage reduction shes forced to take a lot more damage when she decides to go in. Obviously we cant have a Katarina just spamming E and getting damage reduction, however, when you have to chase daggers randomly on the ground there's a lot of time you're just not doing any damage and just soaking it all up making her do even less and essentially just die every time she goes in.

3 - Her ult no longer hits everyone, but only hits 3 enemies. I want to reiterate the fact that she feels like she does barely any damage, and the potential she has to do damage is really hard to pull off and even when executed properly, she still feels extremely weak, now her ult doing even less, is the icing on the cake as they say, to finalize the total destruction of Katarina.

I get that Riot is doing the best they can to improve the game, and make positive changes on the game play and the champions themselves, but really, every great aspect of Katarina, was gutted with these changes. Shes a worthless pile of nothing now, and I immensely hope that she will be reverted back.

31 Comments

Trídent5 votes

Idk, my friend who also mains Kat likes the Katarina changes. He said she's much more fun, challenging, and that her "play-making" ability is much better. Although he's just started learning the new one, he's already able to pull off 1v5s and dominate. In fact, contrary to believing that the new Katarina is too weak, he thinks she's too strong and could use a few nerfs.

He's platinum though, so there could be a drastic difference across elos.

With more practice though, I'm sure you'll be able to master the new kat

Jigglypuff Cudlz1 votes

I can't seem to make her do damage, what is his build?

BladeSteel1 votes

A main thing to remember is a lot of her damage is in her "passive"...meaning her picking up of the blades. Around midgame with 2-3 items it will be doing about 200-300 more damage than her q.

Trídent1 votes

Sorry for the late response He rushes hextech gunblade and then the rest depends on the situation I think

Succubús GF2 votes

She just feels clunky, i was fine with a harder concept of her as in positioning and more chances for outplay/ getting outplayed by w is extremely clunky and the interaction with the daggers just feels forced. I also dont like how they justs hoved the old w into her passive and just left it there, they just could have done it better

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

I'm still looking for the harder concept especially while ppl keep claiming I play a 0 skill champ after I win my mid... which is fun I cant actually farm anymore, because my Q hardly hits anything and the towers hit too much dmg and I get destroyed by time while I go to pick my dagger to deal damage... otherwise I'm forced to just watch how my farm goes away without me touching it... And that annoying zed just spams Q and kills waves of minions... FUN FUN FUN!

Brutalitops012 votes

She's more difficult than she was before, but I feel she fits her design better than she did before. Experiment with items, test it some more, get used to the changes.

I've mained Twitch for most of season 6 and I'm still getting used to his changes with the update, and trying to do so with all these assassins running around killing me in under a second just feels impossible. No matter what I or my team tries to do, I die any time an assassin jumps on me, even if I have flash, GA, and Bloodthirster. There's no way for me to stop them, especially with them being able to see me once they jump now. Getting used to the changes to my main when the enemy team has minimum 3 assassins every game is just a tilting impossibility, but when the preseason meta dies down and becomes much less experimental, there'll be a full season to relearn the changes and make myself overall even better at him than I was before. In the meantime, I'll be either not playing, playing assassins, or playing people who can get the hell away from them if they get jumped on. You may not like having to relearn your main, I certainly don't, but I realize that, once I do relearn him, I'll be even better as a player and as a Twitch main than I was before.

As for Katarina, she's a lot stronger now than she was before. First off, Gunblade gives a decent amount of burst with your Dagger spin damage scaling based on both AP and AD, and it gives a lot of healing. They moved a lot of her power to jumping around fights using the Shunpo resets and the daggers, so use the tools they gave you. Throw a Q, drop W, jump to the enemy with E, pick up the dagger, jump back, to the W dagger with E, and that's a fair amount of damage for a trade. Or, for an all-in, throw a Q, jump to the enemy with E, pick up the dagger while dropping W, then ult, you'll pick up the dagger while spinning from ult and deal a ton of damage. I only played one game of the new Kat, but after the game I felt like I had a decent understanding of her, and I feel like I could succeed with her much better if I played a second game as her. As it stands, by the time I got a grasp of what she's supposed to do in that game, I was very far behind and my combos just weren't doing enough damage to get me anywhere, and I built wrong. Even if the second game would go better, it takes a lot more than 2 games to get the muscle memory for her and to overall just play her well, but I feel like I understand her new combos well enough.

Maybe do what I'm going to do, and wait until the preseason becomes a lot more balanced, then try her again. Riot still might wind up buffing her or nerfing the people you're struggling against, or both.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

I wont read all the stuff you said because oyu said "she's more difficult" which is completely enough to know you got no idea what you talking about... She's easier, but slower and unpredictable for the one who's using her and too predictable for the enemy... The game is made for fun, not for making you to wanna kill yourself, because your kit is horribly annoying for yourself...

EastCoastConcept3 votes

Shes not easier, and not unpredictable. ALL of her damage is from her passive (besides her ult of course) and its super easy to predict where her daggers are going to be. So you essentially lose all your potential damage because you wont hit your passive much. When mid lane is full of champs like lb and syndra and annie. Who can one shot you at level 6. How can you compete as an ad mid laner, who has to run around like an idiot trying to pick up daggers? It forces you to fight in their creep waves as well because your q will go behind the enemy.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Its easier because its slower. Its harder only in point because everyone else with half a brain counter you with right click. Basically she's easier that before because you need less reflex, reaction and speed... Harder because you need to set your brain on status that u r gonna be perma dead in fight and unable to farm anymore. Basically skill based easier, life based harder... And thats just stupid.

Hauling Ashe1 votes

This is what I have been saying. Her Q barely tickles now and doesn't give you the mark. Farming is practically impossible because your blade pickup is so easily predicted. E is also no longer a teleport/blink, but a dash, so you now get caught if you try to E out of Veigar stuns.

Her ult is really good now, but that's about it. I really like the design in theory, but I find her Q nearly worthless to cs with and her passive just too easy to predict.

That being said, she is awesome in teamfights. But you have to survive the laning phase first, which I have been struggling to do at all.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

Throw a Q, drop W, jump to the enemy with E, pick up the dagger, jump back, to the W dagger with E, and that's a fair amount of damage for a trade. Or, for an all-in, throw a Q, jump to the enemy with E, pick up the dagger while dropping W, then ult, you'll pick up the dagger while spinning from ult and deal a ton of damage.

that's basically it this bullshit trading in lane is very strong my last game as Ahri i was so mad that i lost my lane hard to that crap (still won though since we shot down that kat later)

Meet Chaos2 votes

Her damage was spread out by her gameplay and scaling. Game play meaning the old W is a passive which you have to proc. No longer can you snowball in the first 5 minutes and dominate the map. I fucked up the first games trying to poke out my enemy in lane like I would do prior to update. Your locked down by high cooldowns and your burst damage is based on picking up a dagger and procing your passive. Once you get used to that concept, it becomes easier and you learn that you have to play around your daggers for burst damage and resetting E. They also gave her health a buff early game, which helps. Item wise, I find myself not building ludens echo first anymore, rather cooldown items like abyssal and hour glass. I play more defensively during lane phase looking for opportunities and I still roam.

Mid game becomes a power spike (something I felt katarina never had, rather her powerspikes came from how fast you can build ap) when her E's passive % thing gets closer to 90% and your cooldowns across all abilities become lower. She's able to hop around more smoothly late game. I feel they dumbed her down for counter play early/mid game and gave her strength late game with E resets and dual ap/ad ratios so you can clean up and get out like before.

I agree, the old katarina felt smooth and natural, and once you played enough games with her, she became very intuitive. But she did have a problem late game if she wasn't able to shut down the game early on. I haven't played enough late games with her to be confident that shes been buffed in that aspect. Will continue to test.

My 2 cents.

GarthBrooksXD1 votes

I'd agree shes still garbo

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

She was fine before if u knew how to play her :x Guess she was too hard so they made her easier but slower so u can actually know she's bad...

Finn Teh Human1 votes

I've used her as one of my mid picks too. I agree that her kit is now clunky. I think one change Riot should make is that the dagger bounces but the proc stays on the first champ hit/minion hit instead of bouncing then falling off... if that makes sense lol. Then at least she could actually go in and get out pretty well considering her w is clunky too.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Whole kit is clunky...

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Finally someone else said it... Now they can quit claiming that I'm the arrogant prick that keeps repeating the same and everyone else saying it's untrue because I'm all alone...

Nameless Voice1 votes

Her ultimate only ever hit three targets, even back in the day when Killer Instincts was still a thing. That hasn't changed.

As for the whole "no daggers where you ult" thing, that's because you're not using it correctly. You throw the dagger, then jump to the dagger behind your enemy, throw another dagger into the air, and then ult. The second dagger will land during your ult and proc immediately.

That's her highest-damage combo.

I'm not going to comment on whether the changes are good or bad (I haven't played her enough yet to judge fairly), but I will say that Katarina players will certainly have to adapt their playstyle significantly.

EastCoastConcept1 votes

That combo is great, assuming their not throwing any cc to stop you from getting your daggers, and assuming theyre gonna stand still and let you hit your dagger spins. In reality, youre gonna get cced and therefore not get your dagger damage off. Its easy to move away from the daggers, theyre clearly gonna be either right under her from her w or right behind where she threw it. Its pretty easy. Also considering the skill cap to do that combo, vs literally every other mid laner. Its just not realistic or viable in any possible imaginable way.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

At least it got rid of her early games' QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ-

enemy at 20% HP

EW summoner 14 .

Like, this is such a blank lane strategy. The rework is good enough to get rid of that mana-less poke.

EastCoastConcept1 votes

As a katarina main, who knows very well the early game of kat, kat had no strong early game. You could q maybe every 8 seconds. which did like 45 damage on first hit and i think another 45 if you hit the q. However, when youre in lane, you wont hit the second part of your q very much without taking a ton of damage. (youd either have to w which is short range, E which is your escape and barely does any damage, or just auto) Either way youre now very close to them and probably taking minion aggro as well as all the harass the enemy mid lane is throwing your way. So spamming q wasnt good. YOu cant get all the damage and you need that for safely farming because shes a melee mid. The way to play her well was to just get shit on and try to farm your best, as well as SLOWLY widdle them down by q-ing and using other abilites. However, if I was to use all 3 abilities early game against any other mid lane, they would win the trade because most other mid laners have their abilities doing atleast 80 damage. So think about old kat vs literally any mid laner. Shes really at a disadvantage. However, if you were able to roam and get fed or make it to late game, youre rewarded with a decent kit and decent damage, overall. I think she was balanced and had a high enough skillcap.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

1 - Her Kit sort of contradicts itself - When you ult on Katarina, you obviously cant move. Most of her damage now comes from picking up daggers from Q and W. However, the q and w daggers are not going to be where you ult. You can maybe q then e to an enemy and w before you start ulting and maybe you'll activate your passive when you're ulting but overall its just a weird inconsistent way to play. Now you're basically running around trying to pick up daggers, but still doing barely any damage and the effort it takes just to get to those daggers is just so much that playing her is now very stressful and has really bad flow.

don't you want too much? you potentially got several her old w in a teamfight without any resets and you complain you can't also get some free old w while you are in the process of ulting (even though you actually can afaik)?

2 - She cannot ward jump anymore.

she can easily disengage to her older daggers though she is a pain to lain against now, does a lot of damage and is way more harder to catch too, and since she got a lot of dagger damage she is also less susceptible to cc since she is much less a walking ult now

EastCoastConcept1 votes

So youre saying, its okay, to not be able to use my abilities to their full potentials? I dont get what youre saying, but in general her passive now, which was her old w. Is a useless ability. It does her most damage, but its nearly impossible to hit against anyone with a brain. With her ability to disengage to old daggers, thats a fine concept. Except if youre using daggers to just escape, then youre not using abilities for damage, and in this case thats her passive thats being used to escape rather than damage. Again, her passive does the most of her damage. So youre sacrificing that much damage.

LXII1 votes

You mean you have to position and think about your play rather than just jumping onto the enemy and pressing R?!

RITOOOOOOOO!!!!

Succubús GF1 votes

Itd be one thing to make her harder but she is actually clunky as hell. Gl getting out of anything ever

EastCoastConcept1 votes

Its easy to say that without thinking about all the factors. You cant just jump in and kill, but like 90% of every other mid CAN do that. So why does it seem right to take it away from an already lacking champ? Anyone who mained kat before this update, knows that playing her at all is a risk because she just wasnt that strong before, but had the potential to be good when being played by a seasoned kat player who had a full understanding of her kit and how to play against each matchup. Now however, even with the knowledge of her kit, its just so hard to get your damage out because the other people will be able to instantly get theirs off. While kat, cant choose to get a ton of damage off, but rather is reliant on her ability to pick up daggers. Which is HARD to do. ITs not about making her skill cap higher, or making her more able to be able to outplay or more mechanical. They lessened her ability to get any damage off at all.

warpenguin5551 votes

sucks that you dont have to get a concussion to play her anymore i bet. only half joking

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Very funny... This kit causes me more pain in the hands than the original, because its so slowwwwww...

Zoeeee1 votes

Here laining phase is way more about activating her passive. It has a large range and high amout of damage now. Her mobility is really high assuming you can land her q, and have a team to jump out to. She has a lot of burst, but it takes more time to set up. Wile you only hit 3 ppl with her ult it does more damage than before. It's more about setting up your w and ult than just spamming old w for pentas.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

The moment when someone calls her passive high range and easy to farm with... All Annie and syndra mains celebrated this day... PS idk wtf is this ult talk, her ult was always 3 targets never 5

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