Why surrendering is wasting time

Euphie3 · 2016-04-24T18:00:51.765Z

You are spending upwards of 5 minutes queuing to get into a competitive online game, then spending 20 more minutes playing in this competitive online game. By rolling over like a puppy 20 minutes in you are wasting all the time you've already spent in that game. Anyone no matter how bad can win a game if they surrender enough. Even someone with a 1/10 win lose ratio can get to a win by surrendering 9 games. Pressing surrender is the easy button. The point of the game, the only reason to play it at all, is to fight for a win.

Euphie3·Apr 24, 2016·8 votes·1,704 views

You are spending upwards of 5 minutes queuing to get into a competitive online game, then spending 20 more minutes playing in this competitive online game. By rolling over like a puppy 20 minutes in you are wasting all the time you've already spent in that game.
Anyone no matter how bad can win a game if they surrender enough. Even someone with a 1/10 win lose ratio can get to a win by surrendering 9 games. Pressing surrender is the easy button. The point of the game, the only reason to play it at all, is to fight for a win.

33 Comments

GaleWinUnleashedApr 24, 20165 votes

While I am one of those that doesn't ever surrender, your first point is using the "sunk cost fallacy". Resources (just time, in this case) already spent is not reason enough by itself to try and save a failing endeavor. It can be a supporting argument, but should never form the foundation of your case.

Privileged JewApr 24, 20165 votes

This is called the sunk-costs fallacy. When one makes a hopeless investment, one sometimes reasons: I can't stop now, otherwise what I've invested so far will be lost. While this is true, it doesn't make continuing the hopeless endeavor a good idea. Why waste another 15-20 minutes in what is probably a lost cause when you could cut your losses and try again?

This is not always the case, but if you have a level 1 AFK and a 1/10 Yasuo mid, I think it's time to reroll.

JbelsApr 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=acib3HLz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-04-24T18:17:02.620+0000)

This is called the sunk-costs fallacy. When one makes a hopeless investment, one sometimes reasons: I can't stop now, otherwise what I've invested so far will be lost. While this is true, it doesn't make continuing the hopeless endeavor a good idea. Why waste another 15-20 minutes in what is probably a lost cause when you could cut your losses and try again?

This is not always the case, but if you have a level 1 AFK and a 1/10 Yasuo mid, I think it's time to reroll.

There aren't enough people in this game that see it this way

Euphie3Apr 24, 20161 votes

I've never actually thought about league in terms of "time wasted". The reason "Time wasted" is in the title is because this is the excuse that people come up with when surrendering. It's not my own position. But it's a good title for grabbing the attention of people who agree or disagree.

Personally I feel if anything it's actually the other way around. It's not the time you spent, short game or long game, only the fight you put up while you were in there truly matters. And if you surrender, well then you didn't put up much of a fight did you?

I think that the whole concept of "time wasted" is just a weak excuse used by people who aren't competitive to justify their reason for collapsing like a wet paper bag.

Personally I enjoy pushing back against adversity far more than surrendering. All surrendering is is re-rolling until you just happen to get favorable starting conditions. Surrendering is like the online gaming equivalent of save-scumming.

VvVVvVApr 24, 20162 votes

Using that way of thinking only works in business....its not the same for this game.

if you invest and lose money and just keep investing you will lose more money.

If you are losing a game and think "well, we can not win this" then you think ok im losing LP.

Continuing to play and try to win will not lose you anymore LP but you can gain if you come back to win.

The only guaranteed loss is surrendering.

I guess it just depends on player experience. I dont know how long you have been playing but comebacks are not a myth.

I never vote yes when someone tries to surrender and then a lot of the time i just chat a smile face :) after the game when we won.......and just let that person think about how they were just ready to accept losing 20LP but instead gain 15 to 20.

Question....so lets say you surrender.....now you just hurried yourway to the next game....so now what if that game is not going your way? Do you just surrender again?

Duke AnaxApr 24, 20161 votes

I have carried 4v5 games with Soraka, anything is possible if you try.

I also have won 20/60 games because of one good play.

One of those I got a Doubble Kill and Barron and the rest of my team got the Ace, we pushed and won.

Horse GrenadesApr 25, 20161 votes

That's a good point. However, some games that are highly unlikely to win, is a loss and a guaranteed way to use more time. The problem with your argument is viewing the LP as the resource you lose. It's not LP, it's time.

VvVVvVApr 24, 20163 votes

And i thought I was the only one that felt that way. So many people out there act like they have never came back to win a game before........same peopel that think if you have a afk soon as game starts that that it unwinnable too.

ViiLLAiNApr 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And i thought I was the only one that felt that way. So many people out there act like they have never came back to win a game before........same peopel that think if you have a afk soon as game starts that that it unwinnable too.

who wants to waste their time in a game with a 4v5 if u have 0 chance of winning....

VvVVvVApr 24, 20161 votes

See my friend...that is the attitude of someone who just gives up way too early. Do you know how many 4v5's I have been on the part of the wining team of 4 before? And how many of those was 4v5 from the very start? Not just a afk or DC in middle of game but a game in which someone never connected at all...and the team still came together and worked together and won a 4v5.

Like i said in the 1st post....some people just act like they have never came from behind to win a game.

its almost like soon as you lose a tower you want to surrender.

You are not going to just roll over the other team every game. Sometimes you have to man up or woman up and work for your wins.

its never over til its over and you see victory or defeat flash on your screen.

LiveYiOrDieHardApr 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

See my friend...that is the attitude of someone who just gives up way too early. Do you know how many 4v5's I have been on the part of the wining team of 4 before? And how many of those was 4v5 from the very start? Not just a afk or DC in middle of game but a game in which someone never connected at all...and the team still came together and worked together and won a 4v5.

Like i said in the 1st post....some people just act like they have never came from behind to win a game.

its almost like soon as you lose a tower you want to surrender.

You are not going to just roll over the other team every game. Sometimes you have to man up or woman up and work for your wins.

its never over til its over and you see victory or defeat flash on your screen.

I will give 4 vs 5s a legitimate shot but at some point it's time to admit the game is over and let your team move on to the next game.

When your early game team is getting 1 vs 5'd by the enemy Nasus that got to free farm and is currently 10/0, it's time to move on. When it's a 4 vs 5 and every lane lost, it's time to move on. When the only person on your team with any kills has given up because the entire enemy team is smurfing and making a mockery of your team, it's time to move on.

Basically, if your win-condition is "we need _____ to disconnect"... just surrender already. Who wants to win solely due to a disconnection anyways?

VvVVvVApr 24, 20161 votes

The enemy Nasus should of never got to free farm. Junglers need to know its their job to fill in any afk or DC lane. and the rest of the team should know they are not going to be getting any ganks.

MerlinxGluttonyApr 24, 20162 votes

I agree with this, if you have a team and they're competent, even if you're losing, if you lead them and pick them up they'll eventually get out of tilt and pull it together and if they don't then eh atleast you had a fun game, however there are only about 3 reasons why I wouldn't keep going 1)Multiple afk teammates. 2.)My team is filled with bots, 3.)Teammates are feeding on purpose and trolling.

ModAzure OleApr 24, 20162 votes

I don't particularly agree. It's not fun to get thrashed. Even if one out of every five of my surrenders could have been won, I'd rather start anew than try to work with a bad situation.

ExtricateApr 24, 20161 votes

and that's why you'll never be any good at League of Legends.

ModAzure OleApr 24, 20161 votes

I'd consider diamond good.

Point being, there are some seemingly-irredeemable situations. Put another way, if I'm 10/0 and my team is positive the game is pretty much an auto-win. If my team is negative and an enemy is 10/0, it's just as over, but the other way round.

VvVVvVApr 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I rather start anew than try to work with a bad situation.

lol hope you dont feel that way in real life. If you was married or are married you would be getting a divorce after every arguement.

SwordfishRedApr 24, 20161 votes

Well I mean I'm his girlfriend, and nothing to worry about on that front. <3

TufioApr 24, 20162 votes

we have no working ranked, this is a casual only game

xxxMadLionxxxApr 24, 20161 votes

it's because it is not fun for the losing team. Don't you just hate get rect by a fed champ?

Euphie3Apr 24, 20165 votes

I don't understand. You're saying that you queue up to play in a competitive game, but you don't find it fun when things start getting competitive?

VvVVvVApr 24, 20161 votes

I think most games have someone in the game that ends up getting fed more than others in the game. So if that person just happens to be on the other team are you just going to give up?

EzzaryApr 24, 20161 votes

Did not understand this post at all xd

VvVVvVApr 24, 20161 votes

Did you up vote or down vote it?

EzzaryApr 24, 20161 votes

?????????

VvVVvVApr 25, 20161 votes

its a simple question....answering with a bunch of question marks kind of answer another question for me though......

If you couldnt understand my simple question then i believe you when you say you dont understand his post.

Magnum MackApr 24, 20161 votes

In a ranked game, I never surrender. There's always the chance the team will throw and you can get a good ace. I hate the idea of losing LP in a game we could have won. I just wish they'd remove surrender from ranked games entirely.

In normals or featured game modes, fuck yeah I will surrender. There's nothing on the line and no real time wasted. I just move onto the next game.

FioraWillCarryApr 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magnum Mack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=acib3HLz,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-04-24T18:51:34.057+0000) I just wish they'd remove surrender from ranked games entirely.

Play one game in Bronze and I guarantee you would change your mind.

Magnum MackApr 24, 20161 votes

I do play in bronze and I don't see the point in guaranteeing I lose 15 lp when I can run another 15 minutes and possibly gain 23 because the opposing team who is also bronze throws at baron/dragon pit/random turret/literally anywhere because everyone is bronze.

It's bronze. Everyone is bad and everyone can make mistakes.

Sneakyy XDApr 24, 20161 votes

{quoted} By rolling over like a puppy 20 minutes in you are wasting all the time you've already spent in that game.

Look up the sunken cost fallacy.

VvVVvVApr 25, 20161 votes

Just to add this my last game pretty much backs up what those who do not surrender have been saying.

My team was basically handed a easy win. The other teams Top got mad at the Jungler so he left the lane.....all chatted to our top the lane was his....then he just ran around the jungle taking all of their junglers camps.

So it was basically 4v5..easy win right? The support on other team even said he tried to surrender but they wouldnt.

So its 4v5 and what does my team do? Instead of split pushing they all want to keep calling for all mid and running mid and getting ulted by the other teams lux.

So now all our lanes are pushed near our side.......Im Janna support...no dps....since no one on my team wants to try to split push im forced to do it....so i get a Hurricane just to even have a chance at clearing a wave before the next one shows up lol. I even get a zz rot to try to stall the other lane since my team thinks the game has become ARAM. Spawn, mid, die, spawn, mid, die...oh look we just lost top to a minion wave. :/

But now its too late......we are losing and the other teams Top decides to play again...now its 5v5 and we end up losing.

Other team could of surrendered...but they didnt and ended up winning.

FovereApr 25, 20161 votes

It really depends on why you play.

I try to force surrenders on my team when the experience drops below something I am willing to tolerate.

For me it's less about winning or losing and more about how we're playing the game. If my team is feeding, refusing to coordinate, if we have trolls, etc. that are "beyond salvage", I will want to leave just as soon as I can.

On the other hand, if we are solidly getting beaten but the team is still trying to slug it out, people are pinging and focused on making gains, then I'll stick it out regardless of how hopeless the situation.

League is really all about teamplay, the fun comes from putting effort into your role with 4 other guys who are doing their jobs as well and seeing how far all of you can manage to go together. There's way more immersive single player games someone could play that have both action and strategy. You come to League for the teamplay, so for me that is the determining factor.

Horse GrenadesApr 25, 20161 votes

My grandpa used to say, "just because some of the horses are out doesn't mean you let all the horses out." If it's a loss, it's a loss. I never surrender when there is a chance, I hardly ever surrender, but sometimes.. it's just a loss.

Edit: As far as your second argument, I don't understand what you're saying at all.