An possible feature for new tank rework.

AngrySpartanIV··1 votes·1,350 views

Hello i was thinking of recently and came up with a thought. What if tank items gave defensive stats, but removed offensive/overal stats.

That is the summary of a thought. The thought would apply to mayor tank items only, and i count iceborn gauntlet and sunfire cape in this category as well. Bruiser items such as steraks or titanic hydra are supposed to give you offensive power with some defensive stats, such as hp. The concept could be applied to the tank items too, tank items would give mayor tankiness, but remove something (now that i think maybe even utility stats could be added too, like ms and mana regen) from bonus stat categories, so that tanks have only their base stats to work with.

In my opinion tanks should be VERY annoying, but not really able to murder somebody in opposing enemy team. They should disrupt and absorb dmg. So removing stats that give you offensive (or some utility) stats you would have more room to give more tankiness increasing the annoying factor in a way that you are this unkillable begemoth that is disrupting your attempts to murder someone, but you can rest assured that this guy is only a threat to low hp (by that i mean someone had been bursted bellow 40 % hp) target.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA, i cant know what this would mean if it acctually was in the game. I know that there are champions that build both bruiser and tank items, and champions that like to build one tank item to survive better, if an adc build ga, he could lose offensive, but he really wants that item simply because there is a pesky assasin constantly targeting him (thou i think it is the supports job to protect his Dmg dealer, so this would be even better, more tanky, more cc, more annoying assasin, wow so good much success ? :D).

Sry for the big post, would givi you a cookie if you red it, but you are probably very far away. :S

19 Comments

Wrathof3001 votes

If tanks worked with only base stats they would just be ignored in team fights, having reasonable DMG gives them presence otherwise why not just walk straight pass them avoiding their cc of course. I prefer them as is ATM, of course they could use some balancing, all to come with a class update.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

So you ignore a zac or poppy, or sion in a teamfight ? I had games where ppl tried that, it didnt go well for them. The thing is most tanks have good base dmg to remain relevant in tf, its just the power of tanky items give them too much of an edge when it comes to fighting, they are cheaper and provide a lot of durability, sometimes even dmg (sunfire, deadmans, icerborn items), and with that they can also shut down their laning opponet (speaking of top), its very boring you want for once to go a dmg carry, but then you a poppy who takes forever to die while you die in 3-4 sek. Because of that i play with more tanks myself. I remeber the times on top where you could grab anything and win with good amount of good decisions and skill, but now it doesnt even matter when the opponent just laugh when you are only giving him a backrub.

Wrathof3002 votes

If they make the changes you are talking about they will be able to be ignored, is what I meant. Imo the adc role is fundamentally flawed atm and assassins shouldn't be able to kill tanks easily, so no,AD carry champs atm (until they do something about adc) shouldn't/won't be able to take on tanks with ease. AP carry champs deal decent dmg to tanks imo.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

But the thing about tanks is that they should be annoying, with CC and their durability, they should be able stop players from being able to move around freely or not being able to go priority targets. Its like tanks should be like bag of bricks that attaches you or ties other players around you not allowing to advance, rather than just be able to that AND kill you as well (that sounds more like bruisers job, no ?).

Also i re-red what i wrote, so yea i missworded what i wanted really, instead of removing offensive stats tank items should reduce effectiveness of offense stats on them while providing something else in return. As i said this was just a idea (that also came suddenly).

Wrathof3001 votes

So sort of a 'lethality for tanks'. That's understandable, but still think that Juggernauts (I assume these are the main offenders) are healthy for the game atm, with some exceptions (Garen is one and Illaoi in low elo is another). Though if you are referring to Divers eg Vi and Hec, we know that the class is in need of an update and standardization of their role, but I believe they will be moved to high dmg with average tank stats.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

Ayy thats even better, like lethality only in reverse you start with a negative stat (only building items not in runes, masteries lul) that could dissapear as the games goes (with your lvls ofc).

But juggernauts are not the issue, for the most part as you say they are healty and they can be dealt with, because they are supposed to be tanks with damage. The problem are the one under the category of vanguards (zac, naut, poppy, tanks with mobility and high disruption), they should be reverse juggernauts, tanks, but on the utility side so to speak, but when one deals fak ton of dmg its not fun and i dont think its healty as well.

And yea divers are nasty, but if u manage to survive them they become lesser meat shields. But i agree in this season that can get problematic, but that class tends to build healthy dose of damage, so its allowed that they can maybe pull someone to hell with them (or 2 or 3 or whole team when fed j4 or heca just goes on rampage :C )

Wrathof3001 votes

Well if you're lucky, you might see some changes to the Vanguards this year as they are listed for a class update.

Ralanr1 votes

"Not be able to murder someone on the enemy team."

It's like you think tanks shouldn't at all be able to properly interact in solo lanes.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

So you think its good that a full tank destroys you when you are building your own respective stats. I can understand that a tank can survive a lane where he is "out damaged", but being able to destroy it, sometimes even able to 1v2 or 1v3 is stupid and frustrating.

And btw have you ever played vs poppy, i must say its a very "fun" but with and against. Its not that tanks shoudn't be able to interact its that they are too good at it tbh.

Ralanr1 votes

Poppy is pretty much broken with CoTC.

And "surviving lane" is pretty much being forced to last hit under tower if they had no kill pressure. That's not interactive at all.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

That is what should happen when you are out damaged. But with tanks it is not neccesary, tanks have strong base damage most of the time, a damage champion can get outplayed by a tank early, but when that tank gets his items then it gets really non-interactive because damage champion simply cannot do enough damage to win the trade and tank should come on top with his base damage alone pretty much all the time. The problem are the items they give tank champions that have strong early/mid game damage, high durability without any drawback. That is why i came up with that idea. The issue are the items, they are too cheap and give too much power, that shouldn't happen, so if RIOT wants to balance them out they could make them expensive, but then bruiser items would be better, because for the most part at equal pricing they give more compare titanic hydra vs sunfire cape, both are splitpush dmg tanky items, one gives 35 ad and 450 hp with some hp regen, and on hit effect, while the other gives 50 armor and 500 hp with magic dmg aoe effect. Now if u think that both items are simmilar to gold u are wrong one cost 3500 gold while the other 2900 freakin 600 gold difference those are two kills, and i dont want to calcute now how much in minions the difference is. In league you want to maximaze your bang for your gold, it is easy to get a cheaper item that does on basis the same thing, provides defense with some offense. That shouldn't be like that.

Sry this blob, Tl;DR it is less interactive if you cant kill your opponent while he deals about the same damage as you early.

Aquafuge1 votes

if you removed the offensive stats, you'd have to basically give all tanks a taunt or they could just be ignored in team fights, a tanks job is to draw fire and keep as much attantion on them as possible. If they are not a threat who's going to bother dealing with them until after the threats are dead. most tank items give health, and i think that's why the %hp damage items exist, as wall as items that provide ap damage on basic attacks.

AngrySpartanIV1 votes

Now that i think of i poorly worded it. But yea to refrase i thought maybe tank items could reduce bonus offence/utility stats, not outright remove them, mb.

And true there are anti tank items, but at the moment a tank can still get out of control in early/mid game and it is very frustrating that

Ralanr1 votes

Reducing offensive stats would be a heavy nerf to juggernauts and fighters in general as they share many of the same items.

Aquafuge1 votes

but being honest there should be a distinction between a fighter/juggernaut and a tank. If i remember correctly the juggernauts are extreme damage champs with incredible tanking stats. But shouldn't a juggernaut/fighter basically be a hybrid and only 1/2 as effective as a full tank or full dpser, otherwise why not just remove tanks and dpsers as there would be no reason to use them if there is someone just as good in their respective role and way better in a secondary role at the same time.

Ralanr2 votes

The distinction is more in their kits than item builds.

Aquafuge1 votes

That should be the point, but many of the juggernauts/fighters have enough dps that they can go for a tank build and still keep up with many other dpsers, I think if they build tank they should lose some of their dps capabilities, make them have to decide which way they want to go, not be the best of both worlds but only descent. They should never be better then a tank or dpser as they are both and should have to focus on building both not just scaling into either role.

Ralanr1 votes

That's something Riot plans on looking into for the midseason, properly working defensive itemization so other classes don't get as extreme benefit from it.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

That should be the point, but many of the juggernauts/fighters have enough dps that they can go for a tank build and still keep up with many other dpsers, I think if they build tank they should lose some of their dps capabilities, make them have to decide which way they want to go, not be the best of both worlds but only descent. They should never be better then a tank or dpser as they are both and should have to focus on building both not just scaling into either role.

In some respects, Juggernauts and Tanks get their defenses in different ways. For example, many Juggernauts have high in combat sustain, which often scales with either maximum or missing health. This give them a fair amount of dueling power compared to glass cannons.

In contrast, a fair number of tanks (including many wardens) do get boosts in their defenses, or shields, or even healing. And many Vanguards are able to prevent damage simply by keeping the opponent Stunlocked. (Using their CC) But in this case, their defenses are linked to their abilities, and while Juggernauts Have BC for CDR, the main Tank CDR item (Frozen Heart) isn't doing too hot right now.

Also, I don't exactly think it's fair to say that Tanks shouldn't do damage. A tank without damage would get bullied by their opponent who can shove wave against him, (for top lane) and would struggle to clear Jungle camps. (for Junglers) The difference is, Juggernats have superior DPS, while a Tank's damage is more in the form of Burst. (tied in with their CC)

But in Either case, I don't completely believe that a single item then defenses, is the only reason why Tanks/Juggernauts do so much. Part of it is simply that, While Juggernauts can afford to build one item for a basic attack, Glass cannons can never afford to build a basic defense. Giving Juggernauts the advantage in the 1v1.

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