Boards›Gameplay

Vayne PBE nerf is wayyy too much

im hot··3 votes·2,389 views

Just saw the PBE vayne q and r+q nerf. 10% bonus ad at lvl 1 makes no sense. that nerf on q basically means automatic loss in trades level 1. Why not make 25/35/45/55/65 nerf ad bonus by 5% but keep some strength at level 1? Worse is the r+q 0.5s is waaaayyy too short. One difference between good vayne and bad vayne was the use of full 1s of invisibility to position himself in fights especially to land condemn. With 0.5s you can hardly position nor go to position for a good condemn angle. Make the invisible time 0.6/0.7/0.8 or 0.75 or if really need nerf make it 0.7s. Or something creative like 0.5s invisibility followed by 0.5s camouflage. High tier players are still not using vayne due to its apparent weakness in early level 1-6 phase. There is no point in nerfing more. Also, put out some actual buffs for Kalista. Attacks missing when no vision, loss of attack speed without support, very low jump distance, etc. are too many disadvantages. As for now making e stack on cooldown is definitly not enough to get it back in the game.

Sounds like a rant but some nerfs and buffs as seen in pbe right now makes 0 sense.

85 Comments

Ralanr12 votes

"Automatic lose at level 1 trades"

Gee, almost as if she's supposed to suck hard at level 1.

im hot1 votes

Automatic loss level 1 trades mean as in auto+q(auto) from vayne vs 2 auto from any other champs + their level 1 spell. If you take damage output from the trades vayne is up by 0.1 ad and other adc up by full spell dmg. Considering vayne is late game carry, 0.3 q bonus is weak but understandable. But 0.1 ad? Even if vayne was to dodge enemy spell with q and do 2 auto trades each other then vayne takes lead by 0.1 ad. This is not even close to being fair. If enemy support was janna bonus q dmg would not even tickle the shield on enemy adc.

Ralanr5 votes

Maybe Vayne shouldn't try to trade at level 1.

im hot1 votes

With nerfs, maybe vayne shouldn't trade until the game is over.

Ralanr7 votes

Now you get it! Late game ADCs for late game destruction.

Though seriously you should have a fucking difficult laning phase to make up for that fucking wonderful late.

im hot1 votes

rofl how do you have wonderful late game when the game already ended in a loss.

Ralanr5 votes

Be like Nasus. Farm.

im hot1 votes

How do you farm when game ended in a loss? You dont get the point here At All.

Ralanr3 votes

Game doesn't end in laning.

im hot1 votes

At the current pbe nurf Vayne going from hyperscale adc to dead corpse in coffin with nailed lod. Im saying why not make him just a dead corpse instead of also securing and locking him away in coffin. If there is a problem by all means fix it but don't completely destroy it. Past example of over nerfing is Kalista. They tried to fix the problem but instead they made a mistake and completely destroying the champ. Clearly Riot didn't learn from the past cases of failure nerfs and is repeating the process of over-nerf and saying goodbye to the champion.

Ralanr3 votes

You seem to think Kalista was fine.

im hot1 votes

You seem to think Kalista is fine now. I would rather see the op champion in the game than not see the champion at all. Why bother releasing new champs?

Ralanr2 votes

Oh no, she isn't fine now.

I'd just rather not have an OP champion in the game.

Ralanr2 votes

K. I'll learn more.

FaytalityHD7 votes

It is not enough rather.

im hot1 votes

Maybe you don't play vayne enough and don't know the ecosystem of bot lane right now.

Boulderox3 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you don't play vayne enough and don't know the ecosystem of bot lane right now.

survive 35 + minutes, then 2 shot anyone and 3 shot tanks, vayne is a time bomb, if the game doesn't end fast she will hit the 0 difficulty point.

im hot1 votes

how many minutes do you think vayne will last with nerfs especially r nerf? dont even care about q nerf.

Boulderox1 votes

{quoted}

how many minutes do you think vayne will last with nerfs especially r nerf? dont even care about q nerf.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN touch the problem with her ult FREE AD which just makes her q more powerful Invis for free now, cant be warded to see 90 ms chasing

and you are complaining she will be shit because her stealth is .5, ha, good one

im hot1 votes

You seem to not take the q motion duration into action. Before you actually post anything go take a closer look at how long 1s is and if nerfing to .5s will actually keep the champ in competition.

Boulderox1 votes

{quoted}

You seem to not take the q motion duration into action. Before you actually post anything go take a closer look at how long 1s is and if nerfing to .5s will actually keep the champ in competition.

and you fail to see that the nerfs still don't deal with the problem, free ad with ult Q aa reset steroid AA based of TOTAL ad which is a free 30 / 50 / 70 AD with a free r. (ie, free 1050 / 1750 / 2450 gold on a button) Refuse to see her q CAN CRIT and having item 3087 item 3031 item 3046 is not hard to crit with Oh wait, her q has a 2 sec CD, oh my how hard is it to tumble right click :O W oh you survived the first autos, well your dead now, when an ability meant to kill tanks destroys people with no tank invested, is just not fair... E, is a decent ability honestly and is hard to use right, the only thing i can say seperates good from god vayne's. R if the AD for free isn't enough have 90 ms for free when chasing, not like that is tacked on power.... and the stealth, which the pure purpose was to kite and disorient the enemies, whereas now it is impossible to counter with wards, and .5 stealth is making it just a repositioning.

she is a problem the same way reworked KogMaw was a problem. the free damage they have allow them to say fuck you to any damage item for just attack speed and can do anything they want with proper peel and positioning on kogmaws part, or vayne that just kites, peels and asassinates by herself. and if you think that you think you know how to balance a game while riot themselves are saying she is broken, http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne showing a fucking 57% winrate in late game, and you think a small change to utility is going to change her glaring problems that aren't being addressed, you can just get out, because you are wrong.

Caytheles7 votes

Vaynes early game is supposed to be weak, as im sure other players have told you.

and yes.... high tier players are indeed still using vayne.

Her late game is too oppressive bro, especially with all of the tanks who can peel for her due to Courage of the colosus being so good right now.

And think about it, pinks dont reveal vayne anymore.... so her invisibility has no counterplay atm.

Adapt to the changes, if you are skilled enough you will be fine

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

And think about it, pinks dont reveal vayne anymore.... so her invisibility has no counterplay atm.

You know, ignoring the actual counterplay of stealth.

This meme needs to die, lol. Yall don't know what counterplay is.

Caytheles2 votes

Counterplay is to make an opposing action in the position of defense against an aggressor....

Pink wards were the opposing action to vaynes R,Q .... But hey if you wanna get rekt then aight,

im hot1 votes

How do you counter play Bard ult? Zed ult? Some spells don't have full counter play other than dodging and some spells shouldn't have counter plays. Vayne's disadvantage lies all in first half of game. I'm not saying Vayne should have full 1s, but 0.5s? Too short of duration.

Caytheles1 votes

Bard ult... you dodge it witha dash..... then again it is fairly difficult ability to land max range.

Zed ult, you cc him away or to death... one of the two.

Some spells shouldnt have counterplays?....... honey no....

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Zed ult, you cc him away or to death... one of the two.

You can say the same thing for vayne, rofl. Or any champion really.

Real response please.

im hot2 votes

Same thing goes for you maybe Vayne pops ult then don't fight? Your responses are like Wood 5 responses. All you are saying is to dodge spells and peel someone away and avoid fighting. Then same thing can be said as "counterplay" to Vayne's ult.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Same thing goes for you maybe Vayne pops ult then don't fight? Your responses are like Wood 5 responses. All you are saying is to dodge spells and peel someone away and avoid fighting. Then same thing can be said as "counterplay" to Vayne's ult.

??? I was agreeing with you. That was the exact point i was making.

im hot1 votes

Sry i meant to reply to other guy.

WoonStruck1 votes

Someone effectively barely above Bronze (gold+ MMR is WAY different from silver- MMR) calling people wood 5.

Classic.

Guyy Fieri5 votes

Of any ADC, Vayne should not be able to out trade level 1. That's kinda the point of a late game champ is you're weak early, but what do I know...

MonkyOfSpace1 votes

Agreed, but don't create a late game champion when there's not even a late game the majority of the time in League anymore.

im hot1 votes

I agree but all im saying is why make the champ crippled as f@. There is no need to take away both bow and arrow from vatne. Just take away the arrow so vayne can at least fling stones with bow. And maybe give prothetics to crippled Kalista instead of giving Kalista a cookie.

Again meant to post to the original reply.

Guyy Fieri2 votes

Then if the Vayne players want the stronger early game, some of her late game power needs to be tuned back. I should never feel afraid to trade into a Vayne in lane, that's how it works. It's the same thing that happened with Jinx. This late game Hypercarry was just way to strong in lane, so they needed her lane phase.

warpenguin5552 votes

Actually they probably aren't enough. She will still be able to 1 shot squishys when she's supposed to be a tank killer.

im hot1 votes

That's related to q max bonus ad in combination with statik and duskblade and crit. Why not cutdown vayne invis to 0.7-0.8 to not use duskblade and lower max q ratio a bit but keep early level q ad ratio like before q buff. I partly agree with vayne being strong but nerfing as seen in pbe right now is just going to kill vayne.

1011001110002 votes

You must be blind if you think Vayne is even building Duskblade right now.

She bumrushes Statikk => IE => PD => AD items and then shits on everybody.

im hot1 votes

I dont build Duskblade someone said in reply. If you have eyes go read. Also what kind of idiot goes statikk first when q master is first priority. What I think the proper item order is BF boots statikk finish ie and pd or bork or qss or w/e you like. opgg statistics only show you items that are finished in order. do you even know where bf+statikk came from?

1011001110003 votes

You mention the duskblade, I respond to the duskblade. I'm not going to read every single reply in a comments section to figure out if you PERSONALLY use Duskblade. Sue me.

And just listen to yourself

"Bumrushes Statikk => IE => PD"

"The Proper Item order is BF Boots Statikk finish IE and pd"

I gave the three items she rushes first, in the order she finishes first, and you sit there giving me a detailed build path which includes boots. Fuck out of here, you're not even refuting my points at this point.

im hot1 votes

Rofl. Before you talk more garbage, learn to read at least some replies before you actually post anything. Maybe there is a reason why you are stuck in silver with almost 300 games with winrate below 50%.

1011001110002 votes

Please, so I have to be Challenger tier now to talk about game balance? This shit is just numbers, and it's so easy to see that these changed don't actually affect the late game hyper-carry Vayne enough to be considered a gutting.

Considering every bloody Vayne is maxing Q first anyway, the early game AD ratio nerf on her Q will only be relevant between the Level 5-9, when she bought an AD item (BF Sword) and the Q lost, like what, 10% AD at Rank 3? It's insubstantial and stops being relevant early enough for these nerfs to just be minor trade nerfs at best.

And her ult nerf is warranted. There's no reason a Vayne she be able to outright dictate 1 v 1 fights by R-Qing into the perfect Condemn angle, even if she does get caught out. A 0.5 second duration (not to mention the fact that the ult itself STILL lasts 8 seconds) means it maintains its utility as a dueling Invisibility mechanic while not being this uber-potent positioning tool.

If you wanted Vayne to keep her average early game laning, then she would need cuts to her late game damage instead, and would lose damage on her Q late game instead.

Don't pretend like my rank even matters at this point. Vayne's blowing up everything and she needs to lose SOMETHING to make up for her late game dueling.

MonkyOfSpace2 votes

Riot continues to make this game less and less fun for ADC mains. You fucking people complain so much about counter play. Where's the counter play to Zed Ult? GA? So the only counter play is to force someone to build a fairly expensive item just to "Counter" zeds ult? What happens after GA burns out? Where's the counter then? Where's the counterplay to Syndra ult? You reworked Taric and one of his problems was no counter play to his fucking point and click stun, what about Syndras point and click - nuke with a press of a button?

Jesus, you guys continue to fuck up ADs more and more. This game isn't even fun for us anymore. You make it so we're forced to either hopefully snowball or play farmville until we're actually relevant. We can't even solo carry anymore because Riot loves making this game so team based. Yeah, it has always been a team game but do you actually think Riot that everyone who Plays League has 5 other friends to fucking play with all the time? You idiots? You know, some people play your game to actually relieve stress from IRL things, depression, etc. Yeah, thanks for using your shrimp brains Riot and finally bringing back SoloQ that's a step forward.

How about stop fucking trashing every AD possible because of cry babies on the boards complaining about "WAAAH COUNTERPLAY" meanwhile they probably play Syndra and Zed. Thank you for making Vayne a farmville champion. I am SO happy that you've managed to bring her back to a state where she's extremely weak once again early game and have to rely on farming until "Late Game".. LATE GAME LEAGUE OF LEGENDS IN 2016 LOL. Is that a joke? After all the changes you've made to make games shorter than ever, from gold from first towers to everything involving snowballing. That's all League nowadays is. Which team can snowball first. Which team has the shorter hand of tilted players.

I'm literally so fed up, man. Lucian is garbage, Vayne is now garbage, Kalista is fucking trashed, Twitch is starting to get dumped on and the list goes on and on. What ADC will be next for you kids to cry about? Counter play my fucking ass, jesus christ. There's champions in this game that are worse than Vayne right now like Zac. Don't get me started on his cancer. Not only have you managed to make this game snowbally, shorter games, extremely more team reliant than ever - harder to solo carry like before, you've finally managed to bring Vayne back to a shit state and have to farm 300 CS if she isn't snowballing just to finally be useful. Thanks Riot, you guys are POS. Sincerely, a raging adc main that is tired of all ADCs getting shit on because of little 12 year old cry babies who can't just use their head and not feed a champion.

1011001110002 votes

Vayne isn't weak early game. She goes even in a lot of lane match-ups and only really loses to hard bullies that bully every adc anyway.

She scales up from an average early game to a monster late game where NO ONE is allowed to 1 v 1 her. You can't even be an anti-carry champion because Vayne still kills you. She literally has front-loaded assassin burst in her kit and you want her to KEEP that?

And I hope you realize "snowball or farmville" is literally every single fuckin role, not just ADCs. They don't just "gut adcs" in a cycle of never-ending bullshit, they do this to almost every goddamn class of champions constantly.

You're not some disenfranchised minority of players endlessly assaulted by Riot's balance team specifically. They do this to almost everybody.

MonkyOfSpace1 votes

Honestly, it's whatever. The point is, there is actually never really a late game in League of Legends anymore which is why I'm upset with this change. Look in your fucking match history, tell me how long your games are? Usually 20-30 minutes, right? Tell me what happens most of the time, rarely there's close games - mostly snowbally games, right? Nice, that's perfect for Vayne! So.. Vayne is now shit once again early, probably even more shit now because what saved her laning phase is warlords so we're going to make sure she's fucking garbage early BUT..

BUT!!! BUT.. don't worry, she will make up for late game.. wait? Late game? Does that even exist anymore? She's fucking shit now because of that. Because there is no late game the majority of the time, games end fast as fuck Vayne doesn't get a chance to scale. No wonder there's a new nasus build that makes him more viable than him farming all game, because him farming all game most of the time makes him fucking useless because where's the late game nowadays?

1011001110002 votes

If I'm not playing a bot game to test my connection, my games tend to last well over 30 minutes. I even had a couple of games recently push over 50 minutes (one was an hour long normals).

If you seriously believe most proper league matches end before 30 minutes right now, they're you're playing in a bunch of one-sided curb stomps in bronze. Most losing teams can at least extend the game to the 40 minutes mark with proper play at any rank.

And please don't pretend like you've even been playing Nasus yourself recently. His traditional tank build is perfectly viable, you just have to learn how to actually play the mid game instead of afk farming/splitpushing like a Season 3 scrub. Even his most viable builds statistically are tank builds.

MonkyOfSpace1 votes

Lol yeah and does his new build have anything to do with stacking and afk farming? Nope, cuz games are snowball as fuck. That's why he's really viable right now. Please just shut up, you know nothing lol.

1011001110001 votes

His build literally hasn't changed. There is literally no reason for a tanky champion to stop using tanky items. It's only his overall gameplay style that has been affected by meta shifts. Nothing stops him from getting stacks in laning, but now he actually has to participate in mid-game skirmishes in teamfights instead of just aspiring to be a splitpushing raidboss.

His E max build path is cheesy and ineffective overall. It's barely niche and you're better off ignoring it because it aspires to nothing.

You can even check, hist most successful buildpath and ability ranking order are still traditional tank stack Nasus. I seriously have no idea why you'd argue Nasus's best build is not his best build.

WoonStruck1 votes

E max has been a thing for years vs squishy/hard match-ups. Every Nasus player knew it as a viable option vs someone like Teemo.

E max isn't going anywhere without Riot nerfing his E.

Stephenizgod2 votes

Gee its almost as if Vayne is not suppose to be strong in the early-mid game :O like her laning phase is suppose to be intentionally weak to compensate for an incredibly strong late game or something... You think thats what Riot was going for? certainly seems like it...

Btw that is sarcasm.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by im hot

So.... When zed picks up a kill mid game...
Gameplay3 comments
2
votes