Lissandra is arguably the weakest champion in LoL right now

Pontifex Diemia··3 votes·2,614 views

This is my first ever thread, and I have played the game since Diana's introductory patch, and this issue was the one and only thing that drove me to actually write a thread about, so I guess you can see just how much the topic actually pushed me to write about this, which goes to show how dramatic I think this is. I tried Lissandra out a few days ago. Been playing her until now, and I cannot seem to be getting better at her. Learning curves are one thing but this is something completely different. It feels like I cannot progress with her at all. This META doesn't suit her at all, and Riot is doing absolutely nothing about it. Of course there are people that can utilize her to an extent, but I find that even they have difficulty in making her effective. I have seen a lot of Elsa of Garendel's Lissandra montages (which are super cool and you should check out). In fact, she's the one that pushed me to try her out, however I have also watched a couple of her game (not montage-cut) gameplays, and it was somewhat crucial for Lissandra to have a lucky start, relying on the enemies' mistakes, rather than her own skill. Her skills started shining only in teamfights, and that's where you could see her "lethality". But alas, even what she is supposed to COUNTER completely obliterated me (such as Zed or Talon). Her passive is an absolute wreck too, just a copy of Nunu's passive, who even Riot has announced will get a rework, due to how outdated his kit is. Lissandra doesn't have any reliable damage, and even ADCs cannot be burst down without help. She thrives in teamfights, I get that, but so do champions like Brand, whose laning phase is heaps better than that of Liss, and still serves the same function in teamfights, but much more safely and with a lot more impact. So why must there be such a champion difference. It's not even about playstyle, it really has something to do with how weak she is in all stages of the game. I cannot be comfortable parallellizing her to difficult champions such as Azir for example (although Azir is arguably in the same situation due to his innumerable nerfs, but I am focusing on his kit, which still rewards players in mid or late game). As the game progresses, you cannot say she becomes stronger, just less weak. It's hard even to kill the caster minions unless you get a Rabadon as your second item, which is not a great choice only because of the lack of durability. It's such a great shame too, because her kit (passive excluded) is so much fun, and the character itself is so beautiful and enigmatic. Her lore is compelling, intriguing and smart. I just wish her gameplay would match her background with just as much finesse and elegance. Riot SHOULD act to make her viable and definitely more played.

17 Comments

Lord Malpercio3 votes

Karma Karthus Ivern AurelionSol Elise Nunu

hey they'd like a word with you

Pontifex Diemia1 votes

Ahahahhaha [sg-ahri-2]

I did say that Nunu is outdated and not so well right now as a reply! And I wholly agree with almost all of those champions too! It's just that I don't play them. I do however play Karthus from time to time, and he's in a very good spot right now, if you can land your skillshots. Take Presence of Mind with Transcendence and you'll have your ult back in no time. Very reliant in teamfights too.

Can't say the same about the rest though, they all deserve some love (just like Liss).

MrHaZeYo2 votes

I'd argue this is a great meta for her. She does well in melee match ups mid and right now we're seeing a lot of Melees Mid (Zed, Yas, Fizz, Wukong, Irelia, and Talon)

iPooUnicorns2 votes

This meta should be great for her, but she's still struggling.

If a champion is struggling against champions they're supposed to counter, that champion needs some serious love.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

This meta should be great for her, but she's still struggling.

If a champion is struggling against champions they're supposed to counter, that champion needs some serious love.

Malzahar

Krully2 votes

her damage is too low for how much damage all those champs can put out in such a short time come level three, but the issue isn't her damage , but those listed.

Malix Farwin1 votes

Edit: took the time to look her up, she is doing pretty okay overall, she doesn't need to be touched per say as much as overall dmg just needs to come down a bit across all champions. The mage that is doing particularly bad is Karma and Lissandra is far from the worst champion in the game.

She will likely get minor buffs though considering ahri is performing close to the same as her and the devs want to buff her as well(which i welcome). But worst champion in the game? not by a long shot.

Pontifex Diemia1 votes

Tried Karma out on midlane just to confirm this, and it's absolutely false. I got super fed and was able to carry the game no problem. So I wholly disagree. And I don't even play Karma.

Pontifex Diemia1 votes

It might be possible for someone with a lot of experience to go foot on foot against those champions, but the issue is that that is good only in thought, not in practice. Her only form of early-level CC (pre-6) is her W, and that is not nearly enough to stop even melee champions from dishing out their bursts. And usually, their damage is very unforgiving, especially with electrocute. Lissandra cannot even match in damage, her escape is slow compared to the speed of these champions' burst, and her only hopes are reaching level 6 without harm, or a good jungler. All in all, not the problem I want to face when in fact I want to COUNTER these champions.

As I said, I am new with her, but I am already losing the inspiration to play her any longer, due to how unforgiving playing her is (to a new player).

Oleandervine2 votes

Meddler posted last week that they have plans for a new passive for her. It will be such:

"When a champion Lissandra has damaged within the last 3 seconds dies they become a Frozen Statue. Frozen Statues slow nearby enemies by 30%. After 2.5 seconds Frozen Statues shatter, dealing X (+Y AP ratio) magic damage to nearby enemies."

Not noted, but he also stated the statues will count as terrain.

Pontifex Diemia1 votes

I sincerely hope this new passive will help her. I still feel like they're looking in the wrong direction, as they still are trying to emphasize effects post-killing, which means that her to-kill potential might still be lackluster. And that's the problem, after all her skills are consumed, that's what she feels like: lackluster. I kind of feel like I'm playing a worse version of Taliyah, since they're both mages of similar design and style. But Taliyah, even after her combo has been consumed, still feels more solid, because she leaves behind her E field and a fair chunk of damage if she lands her W+E+Q combo. Not only that, but her E is much harder to "miss" since it has a lingering slow-zone, and possesses a displacement CC (W), with which she can reposition her enemy however she wants, in both situations, defense or offense. Lissandra on the other hand does not have any lingering effects (except her R, which she only gets, of course at level 6) or potential remaining damage that she can leave in the field. If she doesn't kill something with her whole kit, she's dead (unless allies rally and help her out after she Zhonya's's or self-casts R or both), because of her kit's inconsistency: very small range (Q*, W and R. *Q requires an enemy to increase the range, but even by then, the range is unreliable, since it only increases lengthwise, and not in a cone shape to cover more ground, and a slight sideways turn can completely negate the damage, hence why her laning phase is tedious).

The passive focuses on teamfights too. She already excels at teamfights. Instead, I believe they should focus a tad bit more on her laning phase. That's her err, I believe.

Oleandervine1 votes

I think he also mentioned experimentally changing the initial launch speed of the claw, with decaying speed as it reached max range. He said it would take the same time for it to complete, but just the first half is quicker for shorter repositioning.

And î oop1 votes

{quoted}

Meddler posted last week that they have plans for a new passive for her. It will be such:

"When a champion Lissandra has damaged within the last 3 seconds dies they become a Frozen Statue. Frozen Statues slow nearby enemies by 30%. After 2.5 seconds Frozen Statues shatter, dealing X (+Y AP ratio) magic damage to nearby enemies."

Not noted, but he also stated the statues will count as terrain.

that is a cool passive but it wont help her lane she will remain the same :( what about the early 1v1 fights

Madsin252 votes

Been playing a lot of liss myself lately and I got to say she is very underrated. IMO the worst midlaner atm is a tie between syndra and azir.

Her burst potential with electrocute (100-0 in 1 second) is very real against anyone who doesn't build MR/HP

Max E 2nd instead of W and come level 10 you can start clearing entire waves with 1 rotation. Extremely easy to get perfect CS with liss.

Also with good enough reflexes your self ults can save you from all the retarded damage in the game.

You saying she can't burst an ADC down is just wrong. With enough practice you can burst the ADC AND the Support (if both squishy) at the exact same time.

Pontifex Diemia1 votes

I cannot argue against Azir, I don't play him. But Syndra? I play Syndra a lot, and she is in a favorable spot right now, far far away from being called bad. Her burst potential is insane, and she can counterattack most bursts with either her own burst, or a good Q+E (or even just an E for a much more immediate result). Definitely not in sync with that argument. But as I said, Azir I cannot say a word against. I haven't touched him during the 8th season.

But I will give your tips a shot. I still stand stern with my last point however: one-shotting ADCs and the like is impossibly hard (not only internally, but also the reliability of the team. I have found that teams at least [at least in P.II] are not responsive to my engages, even if they are spot-on).

Infernape2 votes

Ornn GalioAzir Ryze - "Hi we got LCS'd"

And î oop1 votes

she needs some love, interesting passive and some tweaks to her kit and abilities. Personally i almost never use ult on enemies when i can use it on myself to deal same damage and heal myself, i think that ult cast on enemies should stun them for a longer time, Right now most of basic stun abilities last as long or longer than lissandras ult. I do think she is underrated a bit but still to weak. The funniest thing is that she is supposed to be a burst mage and she has to use ALL her abilities including ult and in most cases Q multyple times just to burst a squishy

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