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Current lowest winrates, any rioter wants to have a small talk?:)

Shikyo Seikou··11 votes·2,347 views

https://i.gyazo.com/a4f15c4b229a705e48d393030b810ea3.png

Its great that kog maw and zed gets buffs but whats about Nidalee or kha or riven? I dont see anything planned for them in the patchnotes and I wanted to know riot thinks about their current state. These champions got butchered by your patch riot ( the itemization changes hit like a truck), at least make them playable again. Its great that riven got a nerf before she got another big hit in this patch ( when you nerf something to unviability then you do it right !), at least revert the changes. ( she has a 44% winrate with one of the highest average games per player number in this game, she is basically unplayable for newer players and shit for people who mastered her, and still she got a nerf, can we change this? She lost over 6% winrate) I personally dont remember seeing nidalee or kha in my games for quiet a while now even though their kits are pretty unique? Could we change that as well? ( even though I hate nidalee..) Urgot is planned for a rework anyway so he wont leave his unviable place right now. And well...mordekaiser....I honestly dont believe you can make him work with his current kit without making him horribly broken and permabann again so I dont know if we should ask for buffs for this guy.. I know that riot cant perfectly balance everything but we have differences of 10%+ winrates right now and some champions MASSIVLY lost in this patch, its time to fix it before preseason ends riot and I DONT want to bash you guys! Its normal that things like this happen after big changes, but we should talk about them! Thoughts from a rioter?:) Yo, downvote away gameplay~~ and balance~~ ( I know you guys instadownvote everything that has something to do with assasins or nidalee so I dont expect much conversation here).

40 Comments

SgtAwesomeness2 votes

as an urgot main im ok with people never playing him because in low elo nobody has seen the crab before Urgot

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Riven is not even in the top 20 for playerbase average games.

Shikyo Seikou3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a8h3OEPp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-15T23:48:00.036+0000)

Riven is not even in the top 20 for playerbase average games.

127 champions and she is rank 25 with her high popularity. Thats pretty remarkable imo, if you dont agree then thats fine though! Lets fokus more about the discussion of why these champions all ended up at the bottom of the winrate list and some champs got hit hard by the preseason patch!

The Bíg Ticket3 votes

Riven got trashed by mastery changes and the removal of Brutalizer and Tiamat change. Before she could farm 1337 gold (or start longsword and farm 977), recall and come back with 25 AD, 10% CDR and 10 flat armor pen, that item was perfect for her and gave her a huge powerspike in lane...now that Brutalizer is split up she has to decide whether she gets Armor pen or cdr on her first back, but she can't get both of it at once anymore for basically the same price.

Nidalee has always had a low winrate, even when she was super popular, nothing really changed for her imo, she is just too reliant on her Q to hit. AD Bruiser Nida top might actually be back though, fervor of battle keystone is so good on her and gives her a free BF sword at level 10.

Kha Zix got fucked over with the Tiamat change, it gave him a very fast jungle clear without spending too much mana.

Oelyk1 votes

The thing is, people are building her in the ferocity tree! try thunderlord's decree... its bullshit.

Skia Asteri1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a8h3OEPp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T00:05:51.885+0000)

Nidalee has always had a low winrate

Only at lower ELOs. Prior to preseason she had 50% win rate in Plat and above, now she is trash in Plat as well with only about 48% win rate in diamond+. Before the last round of direct nerfs the tipping point at which she was good was Gold and above.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a8h3OEPp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T00:05:51.885+0000)

1337 gold

RIP 1337 gold. I hope they put that back on some item.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Shikyo Seikou3 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, you do have to account for her play rate artificially deflating her win rate. She would probably be much closer to 50% if her playrate was around that of an average champions (somewhere around 5-7%).

Just to put things into perspective, season 4 lee sin had a winrate around 44% when he was far and away one of the most overpowered junglers because his astronomical playrate artificially deflated his winrate so much.

The thing is that riven was considered fine before this patch and even outclassed by other things on toplane. And she lost over 6% winrate in one patch. She seems to do horribly right now as well. Its obvious that she got hit hard with this patch in my opinion. And lees learning curve is pretty big ( high skillfloor, high skillcap) while rivens basic skillset is easy to learn ( low skill floor, high skillcap), I wouldnt compare them at all. ( you dont need animation canceling till diamond 4+) Well what do you think about the other champions?:)

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, was she actually at 50% with such a high winrate before the patch? If that was true, then she probably wasn't nearly as fine as people thought. A balanced champion with such a high playrate would not have an unadjusted winrate of 50%.

I'm not going to lie, I was kind of ignored riven in the recent patches because I was looking at the season 6 updates so I don't know what her actual winrate was. However, if her winrate was 6 points higher than her current 44%, it is likely the reason why the community thought she was fine last patch was because they were like me and ignored anything that wasn't related to the season 6 changes. A balanced champion with as high of a playrate as riven should have an unadjusted winrate in the mid 40's.

She did horrible in worlds and didnt win more games in soloque as a soloque champion. Her 50% winrate last patch comes from the fact that her "new player" pickrate is nearly 0%. She is nearly purely played by mains of her and riven ONLY hit a 50% winrate. And riot said 55% is the winrate they aim for champions when "mastered", riven obviously doesnt even come close. For comparison, Irelia had 2 % more winrate with a much more unexperienced playerbase. Here the statistics:

riven:

https://i.gyazo.com/1f2e71ea8e4f831ec99bc20358fe87b0.png

Irelia:

https://i.gyazo.com/858cadc36c08f2c763546dfe249d004a.png

She wasnt overbearing, at all.

Now riven got gutted:

https://i.gyazo.com/0303bebbd3a0488335f87a58560e0a15.png

She even lost more winrate, now at 43,4%.

GhastlyGhoulMan1 votes

I agree these champs need a little bit of love... but as much as I also think Riven could use some love too, I don't mind at all if she stays nerfed a bit.

Sorry to anyone who mains Riven lol.

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

Last whisper changes + brutalizer delete hit the ad champs from that list pretty hard. Nidalee didnt see any play in soloque and competetive for a quiet a while if I recall correctly, so maybe riot overdid it with her. What really surprises me from this patch is that champions that are considered earlygame champions like zed and riven lost so much winrate in an earlygame fokused meta right now ( games end much earlier and snowballing early is key to victory right now). Normally their winrates should have went up, the opposite happened. (I dont mind riven not being in the spotlight...but dont make her useless like that riot...its frustrating to put so much effort in getting her to work and I end up losing more games then somebody who just brainafks and plays malphite every game.)

BluePolarizer1 votes

their itemization got gutted.

Oelyk1 votes

I personally like the new riven, building hydra, ghostblade, etc. Go for thunderlords decree and you have a ton of damage early and a ton of cdr late game.

Beerstein1 votes

Heh, I have a higher winrate with AD bruiser nid top lane than that. Also that riven ban rate heh heh.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

kog maw got sooo much attack speed it became impossible to micro, its just plant and shoot.

basically spray and pray.

and kog mains dont know how to deal with that, they're used to chasing down with ult or actually kiting things.

nidalee on the other hand doesn't deal enough damage with her kit to 100-0 anything, making her more finisher type, but its impossible to land her spear now and when it does land its just not very damaging, even when built full AP.

DJ Di01 votes

I don't really know enough about the AD champions on that list other than their usual build paths got shafted, but I can speak about Nidalee I think.

After several nerfs it's now pretty hard to assasinate anything unless you're very ahead, which is all she's good at anymore. Mid got hit so hard by the nerfs that it's not even on data-collecting radars anymore (Champion.gg), just so they could have her jungle (which they then nerfed.)

From base ad nerfs, animation nerfs, utility nerfs (%damage on her traps removed, vision on trap spawn severely lowered) they really did overdo it in my opinion.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Nidalee really needs a buff. She has the lowest win rate of all top laners and mid laners, and the 3rd lowest win rate of all junglers. You could expect Riven and Kha to get destroyed with the Tiamat nerfs, but Nid got really rekt just because of random AP changes.

dEAdbUs1 votes

You must be out of mind, how tiamat nerf could affect rivens? Just a bit less pushing power? Black cleaver gives more ad, yomoo gives tons of ad, malmirtius buffed. It's damn heaven for riven.

Nid mains have nice winrates.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I mean, when your rush item gets nerfed, you're going to lose a lot of power.

I have no idea what data you are looking at here, since none of her 3 positions have above a 50% win rate at any point except mid at 1-5 games (50.5%).

dEAdbUs1 votes

First: it's preseason, less ppl playing ranked when it's preseason, so numbers can be inaccurate. Second: ppl need time to adapt to new picks, items etc Third: there are broken trynd yas irel graves jax - ppl playing them, this affects numbers too. Fourth: items not nerfed, they changed. Riven now need to use other sources for cdr, not brutalizer + cdr boots, so ppl need to learn. Fifth: it's a preseason, there are more important problems than riven winrate. Sixth: riven was dominating whole fifth season, time to take a rest

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

1: All other numbers seem somewhat accurate right now. The top picks and marksman counters are at the top, and the ones nerfed by Tiamat (Kha/Riven), were already bad (Morde), or bad in Solo Queue (Koggles) are at the bottom. 2: Okay. 3: Your point? 4: Tiamat got a direct nerf no matter how you look at that. Having worse CDR at lower gold amounts is also a direct nerf. 5: I don't really care about Riven as much as Nid. 6: I still don't care about Riven as much as Nid.

dEAdbUs1 votes

If tou don't care then why are writing it?

Tiamats cleave affected kha much more than riven - he needed it for clearing jungle. I played with nerfed tiamat - nothing special, just needed not forget that there no cleave when I was farming.

But kha is ok now unless xin or lee invading his jungle. If kha will get buffs, you'll see - people will abuse him, because his damage is still insane.

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

{quoted}

If tou don't care then why are writing it?

Tiamats cleave affected kha much more than riven - he needed it for clearing jungle. I played with nerfed tiamat - nothing special, just needed not forget that there no cleave when I was farming.

But kha is ok now unless xin or lee invading his jungle. If kha will get buffs, you'll see - people will abuse him, because his damage is still insane.

Because thats part of conversation, you TALK about everything to get a picture of it, holy shit...some people. Well and I can say that riven got destroyed in this patch so I dont see why he shouldnt mention it.

dEAdbUs1 votes

try to rush items that are buffed, not nerfed (common sense)

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Rioters will only talk about story and art related or about new champs. when it comes to preseason and stuff alike, Riot don't care. They won't respond, but they are watching.

SIayton1 votes

Problem with Kog is the time he has to commit to targets. The less time you have to spend attached to a target to deal damage to them, the more flexible your movement and fighting can be. There's no skill to kog now other than picking a good spot to plant yourself and vomit on someone. You just right click and wait for them to die and hope someone protects you. I think this lack of flexibility really fucks him up and messed with his play pattern.

Junsui Aoi1 votes

He's far more dependent on his team now, and that's probably what is skewing the numbers.

Junsui Aoi1 votes

This might sound unfair, but I feel like we need to give time for these things. People need to experiment and try new things with masteries and build paths before we can really say who needs a buff, or a tweak.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Every kha or riven that I 've met were godlike.

Imho Riven was op and she's still op. I 've played riven couple times and even without animation cancelling I was able to kill everything. Image what 50+ games rivens can do.

If riot will buff riven, this will be a last drop for and I'll start to main her. Free elo in right hands.

Urgot needs rework, nid must underpowered, because even now I meet nid mains with 65% winrate. Kog buffed on pbe, morde Destiny in riots hands.

Lajneen3 votes

No one cares about your Bronzie friends/opponents. She's a horrible champ right now along with every other Assassin that isn't Yasuo and Yi.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Don't need to be rude if you have nothing to say.

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

{quoted}

Every kha or riven that I 've met were godlike.

Imho Riven was op and she's still op. I 've played riven couple times and even without animation cancelling I was able to kill everything. Image what 50+ games rivens can do.

If riot will buff riven, this will be a last drop for and I'll start to main her. Free elo in right hands.

Urgot needs rework, nid must underpowered, because even now I meet nid mains with 65% winrate. Kog buffed on pbe, morde Destiny in riots hands.

Oh please, just stop. 43% winrate right now while she had over 50% last patch. OBVIOUSLY she got weaker, and that in a meta that should favor her. Could we stop ignoring statistics and shouting out nonsense? Thank you.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Usually ranked population becomes low in preseason, so this numbers mean nothing. Plus so many totally broken champs. Let's see what numbers riven will have after trynd yas graves nerfs.

Only Play Darius1 votes

KogMaw buffs? He's at 39% winrate!

dEAdbUs1 votes

He 'll be buffed in next patch. buffs on pbe already.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Tbh, I'm happy to leave those 3 where they are. They're all super frustrating to play against when strong.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

RIP, Riven. You and your toxic playerbase won't be missed.

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