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Problems with the first split and why people are getting upset with overloaded champions

Daidalos··30 votes·11,658 views

Hi everyone!

[vlad-salute]

I responded to one of Riot Games Supports' tweets regarding the first split, and Cles from the player support team wanted to hear my take on the matter. After writing an essay about the problems of the first split to him, he asked me to share my thoughts directly to here, saying that it might reach the developers.

I will just copy + paste my text, even though all the things I said weren't about gameplay issues.

So here is the text:

**The first thing and probably the most important thing I want to mention is the ranking system fiasco. The change has made so many people angry and for a good reason. I obviously know that you "reverted" the ranking system from the positional ranks, but the damage had already been done when that revertion happened (at least for the first split). Since I am an EUNE player, I never got to experience the positional ranks myself but I have heard so many bad things about it. The positional ranking was super cheesable and many people used that to their advantage. There were several methods people used to climb the ranks in an unfair way, but I think that you are already aware of them (since you already got rid of the positional ranks). EU servers' ranked had many problems as well, even though it didn't have the positional rank system. The ranked was somewhat the same it was last season, but there was something very wrong with the LP gains. My rank was Diamond 5 in season 8, and I got placed in Plat 2 73 LP this season. I honestly didn't really notice anything wrong with the new placements, they were honestly quite okay in my opinion. But after the placements, the LP gain/loss balance was messed up super hard. Even for me, I got like 35 LP from a win and lost like 7-10 from a loss. This resulted in Season 8 Silver/Gold/Low Plat players getting to Diamond/Master with 30% or so winrates, because losing games did not really matter at all. You had to lose 3-4 games to lose the LP from one win, so thanks to that people who really weren't Diamond level players got to tiers Diamond and above. This kinda made most of the higher tier ranks super irrelevant, I really didn't feel like reaching Diamond was even an accomplishment at this point. And what I mean with "the damage had already been done" is that a large portion of those people who jumped from Silver/Gold/Low Plat straight to Masters with low winrates are still in those higher ranks without the reuqired effort and skill. As an example, in one game I had a Rek' Sai in the opposing teams' jungle, who was in Master tier with a 39% winrate. I was facing him in the jungle (My rank was plat 1 at this point) and I dominated the game super hard, even though Rek was one of the best junglers of the patch and his rank was way higher than mine (I think I fist timed Sylas in that game, I don't rly remember). After the game, I asked him that how did he get to masters with a 39% winrate in which he replied "idk man, I was plat 5 hardstuck last season but now I gain like 40 LP per game and lose like 9 from every loss". After this I saw a bunch of people with similar winrates in Masters who all told me the same thing. I lost many games because of people like this ending up in my high-elo games, so it really pissed me off. This made me wonder if other people were mad about it, and boy did I find a lot of complaints about this issue online. This fiasco took way too long for you guys to fix, and it kinda messed up my experience and the whole ranking system for the first split.

The second thing that I had a problem with this split was the autofill. I mean I understand the concept of autofill and I really like it, but there were times that you would get autofilled in promos or in games that you were "autofill protected". In my promos to Plat 1 this season, I got autofilled in 3 games, which caused me a lot of frustration. I still won the promos, but the games were huge underperformances on my part (because I was playing a position I was not too familiar with) and I can't help but feel like I got carried through the promos. I even tweeted about it, you can look it up if you want. And I know for certain that I am not the only one who had this problem, I have seen other players talking about it online and in twitter, even some big LoL content creators such as Redmercy had it. This has seemingly has been fixed, and it really wasn't as big as the ranking problem was. This problem took way less time to fix and it really didn't affect me personally that much, since I still won my promos, but I am sure that there were plenty of people who suffered from it very badly.

This last one is not really a "problem", and you have probably heard more than enough from this matter so I'll keep it very brief. A very large portion of the community is fed up with overloaded kits and buffs that go overboard, so the only thing I can say is that the players would like you to do these so called "overbuffs" less often. It is very depressing for people who just want to play their favorite champions and who don't want to change their playstyle every single patch. Not every champion gets as much love as other champions, so people that main them and want to play them are not in a good spot. I know that you should basically be able to adapt to the meta, but playing overbuffed champions that you don't enjoy playing to win kills the enjoyment in the game. These kinds of overbuffs have happened more often in the last season and the current season, for example the huge ADC buffs from a few months back. I had never seen as much hate towards League as I did then. I saw a ton of pro players and LoL content creators who were ranting about ADC being the only relevant role in the game, and sadly I couldn't disagree. I know that people will still keep playing the game regardless even if you made the most ridiculous buffs imaginable, but just think about the players' enjoyment instead of the numbers. If the game is made more enjoyable to every kinds of players at the same time, there will surely be less memeing about champion balancing and you would definitely get more players into the game for supporting every class equally.

I am sorry if some parts of the text are poorly written, but English is not my native language so I hope you understand. League is one of my all time favorite games and I will definitely give split 2 a go and I hope and believe that you guys will make it a better experience than the first split was. Thanks for asking my thoughts on the matter and hope you all the best!**

I hope this reaches the developers, since I am not only speaking for myself here. I have seen so many people complaining about these things on different forums and discord servers, that may have been out of reach for Riot employees. I can say that I have never seen people hating on League Of Legends as much as they have during this first split. So many players on my League friends list have given up on the game during this first split because of these things. I just want League to be enjoyable for everyone.

Best Regards

-Kimchi Dude Aatrox

14 Comments

Shiroe Okazaki20 votes

If i know correctly everyones been hating on the insane amount of damage they have in the game as well as the overloaded kits. At this point im truly starting to believe more and more that the balance team doesn't care about the amount of damage or overloaded kits. Turret plating made snowballing even worse because of all the extra gold. At this point it also doesn't feel like they often listen to the community anymore.We've wanted zoes w gone for a long time now but they left it. Vaynes pick ban and has tons of hate but riots ignoring her. They spent all of season 7 doing everything they could to NOT nerf ardent censer. When they did the ranked reset, they never really 'reset' it. They more pushed higher elo players back one division and got rid of the positional ranking. If riot can. They need to get morello to lead their team for a month or two. Im 97.28382489982389% sure he could fix a lot of their problems but i also think he would want higher pay In my opinion. Nerf mage items all around. Nerf lethality. Leave tank items and wait to see where they land. remove stop watch get rid of glacial augment because its too hard to balance. set up more polls for the community

Sir Saltarin2 votes

If i know correctly everyones been hating on the insane amount of damage they have in the game

Only the Garbage Boards that do nothing but cry still think that the dmg it's too high.

They spent all of season 7 doing everything they could to NOT nerf ardent censer.

That's just wrong, half of the S7 until Mid Season was Lethality meta and enchanters were trash, then yes, the second half happening was the Ardent meta.

If riot can. They need to get morello to lead their team for a month or two. Im 97.28382489982389%

Funny, that's the banrate that Kassadin had for a long long time (when we had 6 bans not 10 btw) under Morello watch that did nothing, he would be the kind of person that wouldn't touch things as release Zoe or release Irelia and would let them permabanned because why change things if the players have bans lmao.

Nerf mage items all around. Nerf lethality. Leave tank items and wait to see where they land

Why on earth would you nerf lethality? If everything it should be buffed, lethality has never been this trash lmao.

Yeah, nerf mage items I agree.

remove stop watch get rid of glacial augment because its too hard to balance

No thanks, Stopwatch is fine and Glacial Augment may be annoying but it's far from being unbalanced, like, really far, like, why would anyone on complain about that when things as Conqueror or Clepto exists I dont get it.

Shiroe Okazaki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnAqGRhb,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-22T17:59:17.383+0000)

Only the Garbage Boards that do nothing but cry still think that the dmg it's too high.

That's just wrong, half of the S7 until Mid Season was Lethality meta and enchanters were trash, then yes, the second half happening was the Ardent meta.

Funny, that's the banrate that Kassadin had for a long long time (when we had 6 bans not 10 btw) under Morello watch that did nothing, he would be the kind of person that wouldn't touch things as release Zoe or release Irelia and would let them permabanned because why change things if the players have bans lmao.

Why on earth would you nerf lethality? If everything it should be buffed, lethality has never been this trash lmao.

Yeah, nerf mage items I agree.

No thanks, Stopwatch is fine and Glacial Augment may be annoying but it's far from being unbalanced, like, really far, like, why would anyone on complain about that when things as Conqueror or Clepto exists I dont get it.

Only the Garbage Boards that do nothing but cry still think that the dmg it's too high. Its not just the boards. Players in game have complained about it. So have streamers. You can see it just about anywhere really. That's just wrong, half of the S7 until Mid Season was Lethality meta and enchanters were trash, then yes, the second half happening was the Ardent meta. I can't say too much about this because i started in season 7. Funny, that's the banrate that Kassadin had for a long long time (when we had 6 bans not 10 btw) under Morello watch that did nothing, he would be the kind of person that wouldn't touch things as release Zoe or release Irelia and would let them permabanned because why change things if the players have bans lmao. I didn't play in morellos time really. However I hear from all kinds of people he was a good rioter so i believe he would work on it. Why on earth would you nerf lethality? If everything it should be buffed, lethality has never been this trash lmao.

Yeah, nerf mage items I agree. Zed Jayce Miss Fortune all build a lot of lethality. The problem with it is that even if you do bad. The items are so cheap you can easily come back. I've had this happen to me over and over in games. Playing syndra mid i've beaten many zeds in lane. But then they just come back and get fed right after getting duskblade. Duskblade as an item is overloaded. Duskblade passive : After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack against an enemy champion deals 30 − 150 (based on level) bonus on-hit physical damage and after a 0.25-second delay it Slow icon slows them by 99% for 0.5 seconds. The enhanced attack lasts 5 seconds after being seen by an enemy champion. for 2900 gold. 55 damage 10% cdr. I don't really know how to calculate cost effenciency or whatever but that seems reasonable for the item and price. The problem lies with its passive. a 99% slow. Its practically a root at that point. the bonus damage isn't too high but it still means a lot because assassins are going after squishies and this is normally a first item build. It also acts as a red trinket in a way except it activates for you when you spot a ward. They need to get rid of some of its over loaded passive and maybe some of the lethality. Youmous is fine. Edge of knight isn't really build because no one finds use in safety anymore. But if their nerfing damage all around then lethality items should be nerfed along with it. Same with adc items. I don't know how much because adc isn't really 1 shotting everyone right now (unless your draven.)

No thanks, Stopwatch is fine and Glacial Augment may be annoying but it's far from being unbalanced, like, really far, like, why would anyone on complain about that when things as Conqueror or Clepto exists I dont get it.

Stop watch should have never been made. It's far too cheap for how meaningful it is to have it. Conqueror klepto and glacial should all be removed and replaced. That or glacial needs to lose some slow power/ how many rays it can shoot/size of the impact area. Klepto shouldn't proc 8 times on an illaoi tentacle. and shouldn't give ungodly amounts of gold because only lane bullies use it. Conqueror needs to give less damage and maybe less lifesteal. I could go on more about other runes that really need nerfs.

Edit: i meant to have quotes to answer some of the points you made but it doesn't seem to be working that way...

DNFVixen4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnAqGRhb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-22T17:10:47.669+0000)

If i know correctly everyones been hating on the insane amount of damage they have in the game as well as the overloaded kits. At this point im truly starting to believe more and more that the balance team doesn't care about the amount of damage or overloaded kits. Turret plating made snowballing even worse because of all the extra gold. At this point it also doesn't feel like they often listen to the community anymore.We've wanted zoes w gone for a long time now but they left it. Vaynes pick ban and has tons of hate but riots ignoring her. They spent all of season 7 doing everything they could to NOT nerf ardent censer. When they did the ranked reset, they never really 'reset' it. They more pushed higher elo players back one division and got rid of the positional ranking. If riot can. They need to get morello to lead their team for a month or two. Im 97.28382489982389% sure he could fix a lot of their problems but i also think he would want higher pay In my opinion. Nerf mage items all around. Nerf lethality. Leave tank items and wait to see where they land. remove stop watch get rid of glacial augment because its too hard to balance. set up more polls for the community

I agree 100% on bringing morello back but on a perm bases

Shiroe Okazaki1 votes

{quoted}

I agree 100% on bringing morello back but on a perm bases

To be honest. I can't say much about morello because i didn't play in his time. However i've heard a lot of good things about him. So i'd be happy if he came back too.

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

Morello was something that helped keep shit in check. When he was in charge the game was far more healthy. Yes it had problems, but always has had them and always will.

Leetri1 votes

Nah, people complained like crazy about him back in the days too. It's just a bunch of people with rose-tinted glasses thinking the grass is greener on the other side. People hated how Morello just nerfed and nerfed and nerfed so everything was fun-sized and nothing was ever allowed to be good.

(why is it called fun-size btw? I don't have more fun with less chocolate)

Spiçy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnAqGRhb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-22T17:10:47.669+0000)

If i know correctly everyones been hating on the insane amount of damage they have in the game as well as the overloaded kits. At this point im truly starting to believe more and more that the balance team doesn't care about the amount of damage or overloaded kits. Turret plating made snowballing even worse because of all the extra gold. At this point it also doesn't feel like they often listen to the community anymore.We've wanted zoes w gone for a long time now but they left it. Vaynes pick ban and has tons of hate but riots ignoring her. They spent all of season 7 doing everything they could to NOT nerf ardent censer. When they did the ranked reset, they never really 'reset' it. They more pushed higher elo players back one division and got rid of the positional ranking. If riot can. They need to get morello to lead their team for a month or two. Im 97.28382489982389% sure he could fix a lot of their problems but i also think he would want higher pay In my opinion. Nerf mage items all around. Nerf lethality. Leave tank items and wait to see where they land. remove stop watch get rid of glacial augment because its too hard to balance. set up more polls for the community

Leave Zoe out of this, easy to play against, her W is unique and exciting. Remove little sparkles that come when ability is used maybe if something needs change lol.

Shiroe Okazaki1 votes

{quoted}

Leave Zoe out of this, easy to play against, her W is unique and exciting. Remove little sparkles that come when ability is used maybe if something needs change lol.

yea there is some counter play. But her w as an ability is insane. Its litterally free item actives and sum spells. So in a team fight even if shes just suppose to burst someone she can still end up with like a glp slow redemption heal or everyones flash. I seen someone say to move it to her r. I'd be very ok with that.

Serika Zero4 votes
  1. Turret plating made snowballing harder to occur. Rather than "worse because of the extra gold".
  2. You want to nerf mages, mages which in the past (season 3-4) could get around 1000ap per game, now they get around 400-600. While at the same time you complain about damage.
  3. You want to get rid of glacial argument, a CC rune that slows people. While at the same time, you complain about damage being to high, but you want utility removed too.
  4. You also want them to remove stop watch, an item that will deny burst, albeit once. When again, you complain about damage.

Seriously, the problem is the community itself at this point. You guys "want" a bunch of things, but you don't realize what you want. So, you ask for contradictory things (slightly or completely).

Take a while and think for yourself. What did turret plates do? How much damage mages actually do, and how they do it? Why when i complain about damage, i want to remove a slow? Why is stop watch a bad thing when everyone complained that zhonias is mage only, and now that they all have it, its the worst thing ever? (essentially a mage nerf btw)

Shiroe Okazaki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnAqGRhb,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-04-23T04:20:19.116+0000)

  1. Turret plating made snowballing harder to occur. Rather than "worse because of the extra gold".
  2. You want to nerf mages, mages which in the past (season 3-4) could get around 1000ap per game, now they get around 400-600. While at the same time you complain about damage.
  3. You want to get rid of glacial argument, a CC rune that slows people. While at the same time, you complain about damage being to high, but you want utility removed too.
  4. You also want them to remove stop watch, an item that will deny burst, albeit once. When again, you complain about damage.

Seriously, the problem is the community itself at this point. You guys "want" a bunch of things, but you don't realize what you want. So, you ask for contradictory things (slightly or completely).

Take a while and think for yourself. What did turret plates do? How much damage mages actually do, and how they do it? Why when i complain about damage, i want to remove a slow? Why is stop watch a bad thing when everyone complained that zhonias is mage only, and now that they all have it, its the worst thing ever? (essentially a mage nerf btw)

1 Turret plating made snow balling worse. It stopped the 5 man top lane to get first turret early but now anyone who can push and get plates snowball even faster. So lane bullies who. Snowball. Who do that. Get plates fast 2 I don't like being one shot or bursted everytime i want to play anything but a tank. This is now not then. 3 The cc rune is just toxic for the game. Yes i want damage removed but its just straight up too strong. 4 I want it gone WITH damage so there won't be a need for the item. Its annoying af to play against Turret plates made lane bullies even worse.

Why when i complain about damage, i want to remove a slow? becaues the 65% aoe slow is causing problems stopwatch is a bad thing because it stops litterally everything. Waintign on a cd for a 1v1? stop watch. Being dove. Stop watch. Messed up an engage so your about to die and be punished. Stop watch.

Serika Zero1 votes

let me put it this way:

  1. turret plates means you get gold when you take them. So, yes, you gain more gold. Turret plates also means your enemy gets more goal when you roam and leave your lane. This means, that, you are more likely to be on the losing end in case of roaming (unless you secure a kill). So, turret plates stopped snowballing because now. If you get a kill or two in your lane, you can't just willy nilly abandon your lane and going to kill every other laner. And start giving your team levels and farm (gold) advantages, and even towers (even more gold).

Now you got to stay in lane and deny your enemy extra gold (stopping snowballing).

  1. Mages that one shot, always used to one shot. And those that were not doing it before, are not doing it now either. Mages also (most of them anyway) have to hit their skill shots to "one shot you", unlike, a special class ehem, adcs, ehem, which point and click you with loads of damage, but cry a river when they die as they build no defense.

  2. its a cc rune. Its a rune some people opt for, in exchange for other runes (Which would like, give more damage). Thus lowering the damage in the game, something you claim that you want (lower damage). Yet somehow, an option that gives lower damage, you consier it toxic.

  3. yes, stop watch will "temporary" stop something. If your failed an engage, you are still probably going to die unless your team reacts instantly. If you try to 1v1 and are on the losing end of it, you will still die. If you are being tower dove, the enemy can just retreat and reattempt that in 10-20 seconds, now you don't have a stop watch. And that's the big deal, you use 600g for that stasis, and you can only do it once.

And its rarely a game winning play. But again, it stops like, you getting dove. Which stops the enemy from getting gold. Which stops the snowball and lowers the damage (less gold = less damaging items = less damage).

By all mean and purposes, turret plates stopped snowballing and made carrying games "1v9" close to impossible. Since you can no longer snowball as hard to the point you invalidate your team's failures (and the power of 4 enemies to win). Mages are not weaker than ever before in terms of damage. The do have a shitload of CDR do (as has pretty much every class except tanks, funny enough). Stop watch and CC rune lower the ingame damage, which you claim you actually want.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnAqGRhb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-22T17:10:47.669+0000)

If i know correctly everyones been hating on the insane amount of damage they have in the game as well as the overloaded kits. At this point im truly starting to believe more and more that the balance team doesn't care about the amount of damage or overloaded kits. Turret plating made snowballing even worse because of all the extra gold. At this point it also doesn't feel like they often listen to the community anymore.We've wanted zoes w gone for a long time now but they left it. Vaynes pick ban and has tons of hate but riots ignoring her. They spent all of season 7 doing everything they could to NOT nerf ardent censer. When they did the ranked reset, they never really 'reset' it. They more pushed higher elo players back one division and got rid of the positional ranking. If riot can. They need to get morello to lead their team for a month or two. Im 97.28382489982389% sure he could fix a lot of their problems but i also think he would want higher pay In my opinion. Nerf mage items all around. Nerf lethality. Leave tank items and wait to see where they land. remove stop watch get rid of glacial augment because its too hard to balance. set up more polls for the community

Yeah bring bakmck the guy everyone hated and was essentially "ghostcrawler beta" with how much dumb and blind hate he got. Bringing back morello would do jack. He isn't some god that does no wrong. He literally was in charge when kassadin got the "kassawin" nickname. He was the one in charge when champions like ryze and soraka (twice) got reworked before champions like Eve, morde, poppy, Sion and yorick ever were even though these champions were in the dumpster for longer and were in a more desperate need of some form of change. He was the one in charge when Karma got like one or two bugfixes and instantly was deemed "unbalanceable" and was left to rot for the longest time. He was in charge when Lee was pretty much immune to any form of nerds.

People need to stop putting those annoying rose tinted glasses and stop pretending like morello would do anything and somehow make the game better. Things weren't any different with him around. He screwed up just as much as the current balance team.

XJ999999999999991 votes

most frustrating thing currently is guinsoos and jungle sux

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