Ways to Make Illaoi's Kit Balancable @RiotScruffy, I'm curious if you have thoughts

The Abactor··4 votes·1,235 views

TLDR: Illaoi's damage can't be balanced across champion matchups, or even across elo's because the Illaoi player can't do much to ensure it hits.

I play a lot of Illaoi and what I think the most unsatisfying thing about playing her is that, often, I feel as if when I do well, I don't outplay my opponent, they only outplay themselves.

Usually, we as members of the community can arrive at a consensus as to what the skill floor and skill ceiling of a champion is. The things that differentiate a good Riven from a bad one, or a good Lee Sin from a bad one, are all clear exhibitions of the player's mastery of the champion's mechanics. How fluidly do they cancel animations? When given the opportunity to trade, how close were they to the optimal damage their champion can do? How well do they know their champion's damage output? A player's skill with a champion should increase the chance for Victory, that assumption is what the entire ranked system is based on.

With Illaoi, I feel as if my experience with the champion does not increase the likelihood that I will win a game as much as if I were playing another champion. The reason for this is that, as a person that understands very well where Illaoi's damage comes from, I know that almost none of it can be guaranteed to land.

If you flash onto a flashless opponent with Riven, you can understand exactly how much damage you can do to them with the mobility that you have. With Graves as strong as he is now, almost every one in the game knows that at level 12 he has easily 450-600 damage of burst to lay down on you, and that's something that the Graves can know and you can know in playing against him.

With Illaoi, neither the Illaoi player nor the opponent can know how much damage she is going to do in a trade, because her potential damage is astronomical, but her realized damage is often very low and little is left to the Illaoi player to hedge her bets. This is because 90% of her damage is dodgeable, and the rest of it is interruptable. The only damage that you can begin to rely on playing Illaoi is Harsh Lesson, 110% if your AD, and up to 100 bonus damage. The problem with needing to rely on Harsh Lesson for damage into high mobility opponents is that It's balanced to deal a very small amount of Illaoi's damage, As in an ideal scenario, a massive tentacle whomps down for 500 damage shortly after it. But when that tentacle is MIA, or dodged, the W on-hit can't begin to stand up with a gragas WE or a couple of Shyvana auto attacks, or god forbid, Irelia pressing all the buttons.

So, what I'm trying to communicate that balancing a champion without reliable damage is an uphill battle that Riot shouldn't be fighting. Illaoi needs a way to reliable not just damage but kill opposing champions who have a mobility spell, or their flash up.

So, Illaoi doesn't need buffs per se, but what she does need is a play pattern in which the majority of her damage isn't contingent on her opponent being unskilled or immobile. So, the upcoming suggestions all come with a decrease in unreliable damage, in favor of damage that both players can assume to land.

Some suggestions that I have that could integrate reliability into the CC less Kraken Preistess's kit are as follows:

  1. Move damage from tentacles to Harsh Lesson: Add hp scaling to it, or swap the on hit to % enemy max HP, or even make it an execute, so players are rewarded for flashing onto enemies with it. OR
  2. Make Harsh Lesson do more (or frequent) tentacle damage: 3 different options: A) make it so that champions hit with W take more damage when hit by tentacles. This makes a W Q combo when no tentacles are around meaningful. or B) make it so that W creates a new, less dodgeable tentacle attack. Maybe it extends the range on nearby tentacles, or makes tentacles "splash," increasing their AOE. C) Change how the spell functions. Currently Harsh Lesson can be interrupted by literally any interrupt beyond a slow, since it is both an on hit effect and a mobility spell. Something that could make the spell more reliable is to make the tentacle smash effect always occur if she begins her auto attack. This would keep true immobilizers from proccing tentacles, but still make a dodgeable tentacle come down if a stun cancels her buffed up attack. OR
  3. Give Illaoi access to more tentacles: I know this issue is definitely being tackled at the moment, but Illaoi's kit works is so lacking when she has no ambient tentacles around. The need for your ultimate to be up to do relevant damage makes her one of the weakest skirmishing juggernauts in the game. But, too many tentacles would be oppressive, and already, there's an interaction where if a tentacle is killed and Illaoi has one in inventory, the enemy player is unrewarded for killing the tentacle, as a new one will immediately spawn in its place. Tentacles need a cooldown for every location, as well as some way to choose where they spawn. There's nothing worse than recalling for items only for your tentacle to spawn on gromp and walk into lane with a 17 second passive cooldown. The simplest way to do this is to give them an ammo system and, make the spawn radius to Illaoi smaller than the tentacle range, so she can safely walk down lane without spawing them, and choose to place them in places in lane by walking to a wall. OR
  4. Last but not Least: Put split second 99% slow on her ultimate. Again, landing a 5 man ultimate on Illaoi can be completely unrewarded if the enemy Sejuani has ult, or the majjority of their players have flash. An AOE slow would add an effect to escaping enemies that would make that ultimate not feel wasted.

Anyway, these are all my thoughts. Sorry for the wall of text, but I think we can all agree that making Illaoi do more damage would be a disaster, but giving her the oppertunity to deal the damage incorporated in her kit could be the thing that makes her a viable high elo pick. Also, I realize that there are existing issues about Illaoi's kit that make her oppressive to play against, but this post is already too long, and let's be honest, there are some worse offenders running rampant as we speak ;)

Thanks, The Abactor

8 Comments

The Abactor1 votes

Yeah, I guess I'm under the opinion that her E is kind of balanced haha, so I wanted to talk about some other stuff

Sad Mοοn Boi2 votes

As a fellow Illaoi player I must say this is very well written and accurate. Point 2C especially is one of the most frustrating things about Illaoi. Having your tentacles not slap down because W got interrupted is extremely annoying, especially when it can happen even at 0.1 Teemos range due to the dunking animation.

The Abactor1 votes

thanks man.

n3tcat2 votes

A while ago in a reddit thread that nobody saw I posted some thoughts that may mesh well with your thoughts. I'm interested what you think.

Scale the tentacle damage to hurt less than current damage the further you are from the base of the tentacle, and more than the current damage the closer you are. So current damage levels should apply at 50% of tentacle length.

When a tentacle is targeting a player, make them 'lock on' so it is a guaranteed hit unless they walk out of range. This, combined with the scaling damage, should make it so Illaoi gets more room to breath during fights, and gets more guaranteed hits, but rewards opponents for keeping range. This doesn't affect her Q, but her W, E, and ult. It also makes her ult less effective in team battles if the targeted player leaves the area. Then all the tentacles turn away from the center. This gives some counterplay options for opposing team.

Make the tentacles just a little longer, and hit a little faster, and allow them to spawn a little closer together (both sides of baron / dragon pit). This shouldn't matter that much if damage is reduced at the tip, but it allows Illaoi to poke more, and to make ganking feel like it costs just a bit more for the opponent jungler. The closer spawning allows her to entrench in her zone more so she can protect a lane solo even against a well fed Yi, for example, but it means theres a decision of whether the player should leave the safety of the zone during group phase, or if the player stays and hides.

Spawn tentacles shrunken by default, so when they are out of her zone they don't attack vessels. This still allows a running opponent to setup the lane for her to snowball, but it makes it less oppressive overall and allows opponents to recall. This doesn't affect tentacles that spawn close to her, and combined with the other changes just creates a more dominant zone.

Allow large neutral monsters to have their spirit pulled out, and for Illaoi's ult to work on large monsters. This should allow for slightly more interesting jungling experience with Illaoi, and make longer monster fights like baron interesting if the entire team focuses on the spirit instead of the baron just to get the extra tentacles. Especially if the tentacles can spawn closer together on either side of the pit. It also makes baron fights more difficult to time with a last second smite snipe from the other team.

The Abactor1 votes

I like a lot of these ideas. I had the same thought of tentacles "locking on," but I think in the end it would just feel too troll to have a tentacle follow you with flash, kind of like when you die to a melee auto attack after you flash. I do think though that they could just as easily put 2 tentacles on a wall where there would only be one, and reduce their damage by 1/2. That would give her a more heimerdinger type feel and more difficult to shut out with ranged autos. I think jg Illaoi has a ton of problems right now, but being able to use her e on them would definitely be an improvement

DaBobos1 votes

Hey i am also a illaoi enthusiast and wanted to leave my 2 cents. I have a slightly different view on balancing her around her passive. Her kit is designed around good uses of her passive and ultimate and your point about shifting power away from that and someone to her q and w could be viable but it would give strength away from the niche i think they were trying to push her into. She is designed to be a type of zone control juggernaut, strong in her tentacle nest vulnerable outside of it, which makes her strongest when people are aggressive on, her retaliation damage is harder to avoid because typically people will use gap closer to get in thus not having them up to avoid, basically shes kinda built around punishing peoples mistakes with patience, positioning and sound decision making in my opinion.

The issues i have with this is that you only have somewhat limited control over where the tentacle will spawn, you can accidentally walk to close to a wall and spawn a tentacle in a less opportunistic spot on the wall and because of the spacing between tentacles you cant put another one in a largish area around that one and until your opponent clears it or it spawns there is nothing you can do about it.

I think one way to balance her is emphasis her strength being around her tentacles. lowering her passive cool down earlier in the game would not be terrible. because her tentacles do nothing without her actively doing something they aren't as scary as say a heimer turret who will attack things in its range as long as he is around somewhat regardless of what he does(i know he has control over who his targets will focus).

Maybe increasing her damage when around tentacles but lowering them when shes by her self would be a good check and balance for her capping it at when shes near 3 tentacles (so being around 4-5 thanks to your ult doesn't make it ridiculous) being around 3 makes her stronger then she is current being around 1 makes her weaker(also allows her to be max strength off of 1 tentacle 1 vessel 1 champ when you have ult). To go along with this i also think she should gain movement speed when heading towards tentacles too, not something ridiculous but it adds to the shes strong around them weak without them theme, in her ult zone she should be able to get around and w people when she isn't cc'd. the movement speed will also give her some chase potential on vessel targets which would make her a bit more relevant later in the game when people just walk out of your ult zone.

Other then that my only other thought would be to make her tentacles always appear active and 2 hp, they do nothing when shes not there and they can be seen globally, you gain information just seeing where some have spawned you shouldn't be given more information on her other then where she has been or could be.

Honestly i think she might just be a tad under powered but that could be more on the meta then on the champ. i think maybe in terms of other juggernauts she has no sticking power compared to alot of the others( shyv w, darius e/w, skarner e/w/r, olaf q/r, ,mord W(can use it on minions to gain mvs to chase),nasus w. Maybe that is all she might need maybe not im not sure lol. but would love to hear your opinion and sorry about my grammar.

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