Novice Player looking for champ to main at support to start ranked

dabearlightning·Nov 25, 2017·16 votes·2,442 views

Hello all.

I have played league on and off for a while but I am looking to start playing it seriously and have tried to look for a position to play. I like jungle and have played it a ton, but I can't seem to farm efficiently or control map objectives the way a jungler should, so I've looked into maining support. The champ I like at support currently is Bard (my best champion arguably but not very competitive right?). But now I am looking into purchasing a champion to main at support. I really like unique mobile champs so Rakan is on my radar, and so is Tahm Kench as I like his kit, would either of these champs work to main? Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!

67 Comments

MysterQNov 25, 201711 votes

You are thinking too much into it. Your "main" doesn't matter too much. Pick who you like, it will probably change over time unless you are a true one trick. There is no champion that is so bad that you can't climb the lower ELOs with.

I will say on the three you mentioned. They will all be imo tougher to climb with. Still possible, but harder.

Bard - unique kit. fine if you can hit all your skills, but your team might not be able to play with it well. If you roam, they may die. If you drop healthpacks, they may never pick them up. Most importantly your ult may win fights, but can also cost you some. But you will be fine.

Rakan - imo super squishy. If your ADC doesn't all in with you, you won't get to have any fun early game. If your team doesn't follow your engage, you may die/not be able to jump out. Still fun.

Tahm Kench - again, if your team doesn't know what TK does. They may miss out on the big plays.

but I mean they are all fine.

MysterQNov 25, 20175 votes

{quoted}

You are thinking too much into it. Your "main" doesn't matter too much. Pick who you like, it will probably change over time unless you are a true one trick. There is no champion that is so bad that you can't climb the lower ELOs with.

I will say on the three you mentioned. They will all be imo tougher to climb with. Still possible, but harder.

Bard - unique kit. fine if you can hit all your skills, but your team might not be able to play with it well. If you roam, they may die. If you drop healthpacks, they may never pick them up. Most importantly your ult may win fights, but can also cost you some. But you will be fine.

Rakan - imo super squishy. If your ADC doesn't all in with you, you won't get to have any fun early game. If your team doesn't follow your engage, you may die/not be able to jump out. Still fun.

Tahm Kench - again, if your team doesn't know what TK does. They may miss out on the big plays.

but I mean they are all fine.

But don't go around thinking support is easy. You have to help your ADC farm, and you have to be more aware of map objectives than most other players.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

Technically not true. While initially it is a supports role to set up an adc to succeed, if the adc is a failure, it's also your obligation to know when to roam to better fit your team and carry someone else. Sometimes the support itself has to carry (Morg, Karma, Sona, sometimes even Nami) If you get into a habit of blindly supporting an adc who is going nowhere, you'll lose more.

MysterQNov 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Technically not true. While initially it is a supports role to set up an adc to succeed, if the adc is a failure, it's also your obligation to know when to roam to better fit your team and carry someone else. Sometimes the support itself has to carry (Morg, Karma, Sona, sometimes even Nami) If you get into a habit of blindly supporting an adc who is going nowhere, you'll lose more.

In reply to what comment? Boards aren't very helpful.

I never said to babysit the ADC. But if you are picking something like Rakan thinking it will be an easy game to get a lead, don't expect it to go your way every time. And if you go in and your ADC does not follow up, you just really hurt your lane phase. And if you/your ADC don't work together, your entire lane phase can be ruined. This is especially true with how aggressive and snowball the current season is.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

Was referring to the adc exclusive comment.

But yeah..... Rakan..... I don't support him when I do play him. I jungle/Top him. Has high base AD so he can clear small camps relatively well first round , and can clear all rounds second time in jung. Good ganker, can heal when scuttling by poking Drake/Herald/Baron and walking away. Routine Barrier. He counters a Nasus top mightily (can 100% heal out of a Nasus Q)

I don't support Rakan..... because I know what to expect; As support, you have to build armor, which almost completely ignores his AP and heal potential. If you Jungle/Top him, you can embrace his inner evil and build AP/On hit, and throw around 400-600 heals as well as knockups and your W can do some 900 damage and Q 750, and ult 800. He can actually kill amd heal. As support, he completely ignores the fact his BASE heal is so small it's negligible.

Personally, I have the adc followup problem with Karma. Most adcs expect her to just harass occasionally and let the adc take the lead at all points. In reality, Karma's a champ that goes both ways. When a champ runs for a turret with 10% HP on a gank, a Karma can run ahead, and turret tank for the adc and set up the kill while snaring that last 10%. Last game, had a twitch who literally ignored 3 such occasions in lane when our Zac and I would lock down and kill Sona, and then chase Lucian down to low hp for an easy kill. I actually had 2 cases where I died to turret while Lucian had 1-10 hp left, because Twitch just didn't understand that was a free kill. I would have got out and survived too, if he had just went in and killed that last hit. I got so peeved I just started going other lanes and setting up kills for them. Ended up with 2 bot lane assists as Karma support, 20 Whole map assists. Go figure.

Gives No LuxNov 26, 20177 votes

What, no Zyra?

Many probably think she's not much of a novice champ but I think she has a couple of things going for her in that regard. Her high poke helps take some pressure off your lane, her roots go through minions so it gives you an advantage over most skill shots and if you learn early with her you will start off with the right mindset of staying alive first, doing neat stuff second.

Lots of people recommend tanky supports but I personally feel they encourage bad hyper-aggressive habbits when learning. If you start with someone like Zyra it will help you learn early that success is based on watching what your opponents are doing and reacting to it rather than making up a plan in your head beforehand and just trying to execute your own thing.

As a bonus, if you get good at Zyra as a support you can be successful with her mid, top and supposedly soon even in the jungle again. She's also rarely banned.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

Personally i think the "learning" supports are Leona, Nami, Karma, and perhaps even now Zoe.

Others don't generally teach anything; either are common sense, or are not teaching the right lessons (any blitz who hits is a good blitz; any thresh that hits is a good thresh, Janna: any Support who regularly buffs an adc is a good support.....)

I think Leona teaches people how to tank. Her kit's easily accessible, but at least teaches players that doing your job and then getting out is the smart choice, rather than staying in and being a pin cushion and feeding. She's easily the most successful tank given her massive cc kit and obvious run choices.

I think Nami is the most reactive AND actionable support enchanter. If you just spam her on meta builds, Her heals will be down at the wrong times, her bubbles won't hit, and her E's won't be used on champions but wasted on minions. You've got to learn how to engage and hit her skills on a dime, and how they interact with certain champs (like how to Bubble a Yi as soon as he exits Alpha). She's not near as braindead as a Sona to play, but has the potential easily enough to carry you to Plat + if you know how to play like a surgeon. I find that when she plays vs engagers, she's always the strongest choice save vs Akali, and one of the strongest anti turret divers as well as one of the strongest turret divers, because she can control the engage with cc, heal out, and follow a diving ADC with heals AND further ranged damage. She also teaches you how to get around a map.

Karma's an iffy selection for my 4, but, the reason I add her in there is, although R > Q is simplistic, it's not the most reliable champ, but has so many things you can do with her kit. If you Q or R>Q a champ only, you won't proc enough gold to make your support item worth it, you'll probably get punished 50% of the time you do, and you'll be wasting your R for other purposes. Learning how to bounce Q off minions to aoe the champs behind them with the narrowest path of a skill shot will help you learn all skill shotters. Learning when to save R for a W self heal will teach when to be practical in engages and how to be useful roaming for your team. RE is just a really good team skill when you need to absorb 400 damage per teammate or help them get around. Karma has the potential to teach bad lessons, but also some good ones.

Zoe. I know Zoe is a Mid main, but she struggles as a support, although she's very viable. There's really only 2 uses for her Trouble bubble as a support: trying to kill someone under their own turret by using walls, or as a defense for an adc like trist or vayne going all in. Otherwise, it rarely hits, leaving you pretty much with Q poke. Learning how to harass around a high pressure lane with minions in the way with her Q will teach a support the importance of positioning more than any champ, because without positioning, most supports are second rate, often feed, and before about 4-5 deaths, those deaths are important stepping stones to losing a game for the your team, as they do still give the opponent significant gold.

The reason I don't like leaning on Zyra is simple: She's too easy to do her job, in any game, no matter what. Lay 8 HP plants, skill on top of them when a champ is nearby. Ignores minion waves. The only thing she really teaches? How to fight at a distance.

And don't kid yourselfs supports: If your AVERAGE score on a no kill support is 0/8/20, you didn't do a good job. Even Thresh and Blitz can go 1-4 deaths vs any team, so a 0/8 likely means you have more to learn.

Gives No LuxNov 26, 20171 votes

As I mentioned before, starting out with the likes of Leona is likely to ingrain bad behavior that you will have to un-learn in the future if you want to climb. Leona has to walk a very fine line since she only has 2 roles for the entire game (aside from basic support tasks such as vision, etc.). Those are point-blank peel and setting up all in engage.

Sure she will do other things throughout the course of the game but these are her impactful strengths. The peel side is fine, it teaches good awareness of your carries and Leo is pretty forgiving if you don't play it perfectly so mistakes won't frustrate new players.

Her E is the newbie killer. New players can easily pick up on how powerfully she can jump on a champ at distance and lock them down for a few seconds. This is exciting, fun and even likely to get you good success in the bottom rankings. Now they have 30 or 40 games on Leo and have this strat down pat, until.... They start facing better players where the opposing bot lane ALSO understands how powerful Leo's combo can be and knows that even an attentive ADC is going to take a second or two to react so as long as they don't panic during that 2 second lockdown by the time the enemy ADC you've already set up to 2v1 them instead and either kill or zone leaving Leona high and dry wondering why she's standing all by herself and why her ADC hasn't killed everyone yet.

IMO the biggest hurdle in 'getting good' at laning is that good players rarely, if ever spend time planning what they're going to do next in their micro play (aside from last hitting) but instead watch for the enemies weaknesses and mistakes and think about how they will respond to capitalize on them.

Any coach from a competitive game across all genre will tell you straight off that it's more difficult to un-learn a bad behavior than it is to learn a more difficult good one from the get-go.

I think Nami and Karma are also fine choices. They are less forgiving than Zyra in their poke but they make it up by having some defensive/sustain abilities. As long as it doesn't frustrate you in learning the tricky timing of their execution they are both kind of force you into learning good habits or dying miserably. (which sounds bad but is a good thing!)

Your Zyra example is the definition of the habit of only planning on what you are going to do and not considering how the enemy team is going to play. Zyra plants are a TERRIBLE cheese strat. It wastes all of your most important resource (seed) on the slim chance that the enemy team still hasn't learned the second rule of LoL: Don't face check the danger bush. Now you have no poke, no kill pressure and have done nothing to set up your lane for success and all the enemy has to do to counter you is stand in the middle of the creep wave and run you down the lane.

FYI Zyra plants don't ignore minions, they will take the nearest target UNLESS you complete an auto attack after which they will prefer that target until it leaves range.

You're success with Zyra support isn't likely to hit stride until around 100 games played. Then, after that she starts to taper off as better opponents have learned that she's only strong if you choose to play into her strengths by chasing, fighting in choke points or hard committing to a team fight without accounting for the strength of her ultimate to disengage.

The biggest reason I recommend her is that while it can be super frustrating dying repeatedly while you learn the proper positioning it is also super rewarding getting off a good combo on an ADC that tunnel visions that cannon disrespecting your kill threat. After 20 or 30 games you will likely be able to start carrying your ADC up to mid game and winning the lane by yourself even if they might be struggling for whatever reason.

Biggest complaint about why people hate playing Support is that they feel like they have to rely on their ADC if the lane is to have any success and that's always a crap shoot in solo queue. Zyra mitigates this and might be the difference between keeping a positive attitude about playing the support role and the all too often 'UGH THESE ADCS!! Screw this I'm going to be a mid main.'

As fa as Zoe goes, she's a great deal of fun she just can't bring enough consistency to be viable in the long run. She might have some successful games right now since people haven't learned what her animations look like or the mechanics of her skill shots but once you understand her it's trivial to make a Zoe support lane a 2v1 not to mention without farm or getting SUPER fed, late game her damage will be laughable so now they've got one teammate that effectively only brings a single ability to the fight. To boot that skill is only half of what Morg's Q is.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

Zyra: I didn't bother to compound my Zyra explanation. I do know how to play her, and I generally don't place plants early. But, anyone whose played her twice knows not to place plants early. People trample them.

But if you remove the consideration of wasting non passive plants, you're left with this decision making: Do I use Q or E to proc them? Do I follow with an Ult? E will slow, but have lower range. Q will have a longer range. Other than that decision, and the one that says "stay at a safe distance," her play is very binary. Her cooldowns are short, damage high, and her abilities scale best with a Rylai's and a Liandra's. Past that point, she's pretty much point and click, and the only real consideration is, do i have time to set up a field of plants in a primary jungle keypoint somewhere and save my Ult to lay on top of it (ie drake, baron, lane sidebush a team will be heading toward), or do I save it for a very visible team fight in front of a turret to save my turret or push a base. I don't think short cooldowns really push the lessons you want to with Zyra.

Personally, I think almost every support can be a laner. Maybe not Alistar. But, most actually do have the damage in their kit to carry a crap adc. It's just getting so "set" in that active item "support" build that sets them back from doing so. Some games, you need to choose tank or damage items over a Redemption! (omfg Namis that build Redemption annoy me; She has exactly the same heals building AP as putting a redemption in, and her damage suffers when you do it.... by scaling factors, as well as movement speed due to her passive).

I generally agree with you on Zoe. She's balanced, and only good at certain positions as a support; either when the other team is camped at their turret (can use walls), or if they have a melee support, who is forced to go in if bot wants to do anything (Leona, Alistar, etc). At some point, as support, she either has to have gone a coin, or she has to pick up farm somewhere, or get some kills (can get the kills vs a melee support, but tough luck vs 2 pokes). I brought her up because she explicitly demonstrates that bot is very different if you are at their turret vs at yours. I've supported an Ezreal VS a Zoe who i told level 1: I need you to push out away from our turret. Zoe is useless mid lane. Instead, Ezreal game them the full lane to our turret, and it takes no mystery to figure out: Zoe started hitting every bubble, which allowed her adc to be twice as effective at sniping under our turret, and allowed jungler to dive and wipe us. If he had just pushed out, Zoe would have had a minion wall to deal with, and no walls in lane to boost her E. Without her E, she's minor poke damage to proc her Q/Support item gold, and a lot of those will miss too. When you play Zoe in Mid, you don't learn that lesson. You just take advantage when your solo laner messes up or in between waves.

Gives No LuxNov 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Zyra: I didn't bother to compound my Zyra explanation. I do know how to play her, and I generally don't place plants early. But, anyone whose played her twice knows not to place plants early. People trample them.

But if you remove the consideration of wasting non passive plants, you're left with this decision making: Do I use Q or E to proc them? Do I follow with an Ult? E will slow, but have lower range. Q will have a longer range. Other than that decision, and the one that says "stay at a safe distance," her play is very binary. Her cooldowns are short, damage high, and her abilities scale best with a Rylai's and a Liandra's. Past that point, she's pretty much point and click, and the only real consideration is, do i have time to set up a field of plants in a primary jungle keypoint somewhere and save my Ult to lay on top of it (ie drake, baron, lane sidebush a team will be heading toward), or do I save it for a very visible team fight in front of a turret to save my turret or push a base. I don't think short cooldowns really push the lessons you want to with Zyra.

You're welcome to your own opinion certainly but I would like to hear you repeat this statement after putting in a few hundred games on Zyra. Let's do some verification on this out-of-your-ass math.

Let's go with a nice average of level 7 since this is usually around the first engage after the initial first significant item purchace (I.E. BF sword or similar) and we'll just focus on QWE since obviously ultimates don't fall under 'low cd'

My burst/kill threat build is Q-1, W-1, E-4, R-1. 7s, 20s, 12s or an average of 13s

Let's check some of what you consider the best suports right now: Sona: 7.2, 9, 10.8 avg: 9, 31% shorter Nami: 9, 10, 11 avg: 10, 24% shorter Karma: 5,12,10 avg: 9, 31% shorter Blitz: 17, 15, 9 avg: 13.6 4% longer! (Note: I think most people would consider Blitz to have long CDs for a support and he's almost equal with Zyra) Lux: 11.5, 14, 10 avg: 11.8 9% shorter Janna: 12,8,12 avg: 10.6 18% shorter Braum: 17,14,18 avg: 13 equal

What have we learned here? That Zyra, a ranged mage support, has CDs on par with TANK supports and is outclassed by most all other ranged supports in the ability spam department.

You want to talk about binary champions? Your #1, Sona, literally has 2 choices. Do I press all of the buttons, or do I ULT and THEN press all of the buttons? Tough decision indeed.

Then again what do I know? Not like I'm sitting at 250k mastery points with several hundred Zyra games played. You're probably right.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

I wasn't aware we were comparing champs or even trying to analyze cooldown times.

And let's be honest here; Zyra will have at least 30% CDR (I ran her on 20% in CDR runes from Season 4 - Season 7) in Morellonomicon + support item.

Zyra accomplishes more per cooldown than any of the champs you mentioned, save perhaps Lux, and Blitz. Her damage scaling is huge on the base, and also leaves behind minions which supplement the gaps. Furthmore, you're not mentioning her passive which creates more plants. You're also misrepresenting Zyra's Q, which will be 6 sec CD by level 7. (Unless you're only in lane to root with E, and don't want plants to actually strongly harass)

She's also soon to have 8 HP on her plants, so they will literally be more of a headache than now, and even now they control a lane pretty well.

Late game, she literally has a 4-5 sec cooldown pre cdr.

P.S. I don't have near as much Zyra as you; only about 112k between 4 accounts. I can 2 hit a Yasuo with Zyra at late game.

Gives No LuxNov 27, 20171 votes

So before you said Zyra needs Liandry's and Rylai's. So Boots, Frost Queen's, Sightstone, Liandtry's, Rylai's, and, being honest here, Morello's, and now finally she's good for beginners? Or do we need to throw Hourglass, Rabadon's and Luden's on top for good measure?

OP asked for learning support suggestions, I gave good reasons for Zyra, you tried to tear them all down and I was simply point out how all of your supposed logic was invalid and the statistics and math show the contrary and recommend that he not discount Zyra due to misinformation.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

The rest of the build depends on the team you're vs. ofc you want boots. But, since Zyra is a spawn builder whose relatively immobile, sometimes the build order varies. Ofc you also want a Morello, but you might not want it as a first item, depending on whether the other team is a sustain team or not. Sometimes, it's better to throw out the Rylai's first, because you might have a Mobility boots jungler, and you might need to slow them to prevent chases (I've had times where I had no boots, but had a Rylai's, placed a couple plants and spawned them while Yi was chasing me. By the time he reached the plants, his Highlander ran out, which ended up getting him killed, because I went back and 1 shot his butt after he lost his chase.

I ofc later got boots, because that won't always work, and I should at least burn a couple more seconds on his Highlander before he reaches me.

You're being ridiculous trying to claim things I'm not saying. I'm just saying those are core. Once you have them, you can control almost any fight, because the plants all apply Liandra's on top of your own skill damage, which is also not hard to hit (especially after the aoe shape rework). None of the other items "control a fight" or tick 15 * 2% bleed in a well built plant zone. Furthermore, unlike your OWN skills, the plants can bypass something that cures conditions that are on cooldown, like Gangplank's Citrus, because they reapply. The only champ that can potentially really beat Zyra's kit when played correctly, IS Yi. In my opinion, that makes her extremely strong, too easy to use to "learn lessons." Sure, other champs can kill Zyra when she's badly travelling, or going in dark places, or a horrible aim, but if you're Annie Oakley with Skill shots, she's very hard to even touch. Her only disadvantage is being slow moving, but her kit makes up for that by controlling a huge area of the map at a time. Her cooldowns maybe be high on Root Early, but Q is fast, plants spam pretty fast, and cover the gaps, making engaging her dangerous even when the root is down. Late game, E is not high cooldown at all, and pretty frigging reliable.

Stop trying to be a martyr and tell everyone Zyra is weak. She's not!

Gives No LuxNov 27, 20171 votes

Obviously if she is my most played I don't think she is weak. What I am saying is that she isn't the breaidead easy win afk bot you make her out to be thus claiming that you won't learn the game because she is press button, win lane freelo.

Why can I run circles around enemy zyra with any champ I have even the slightest experience with? They should be able to beat me just as easily since there is no subtlety to her gameplay right?

I'll give you some pointers for free. If her seeds are giving you grief, run at them, when you see her start a casting animation walk back. AA the plants then harass her for 10-12 seconds when she can't do anything.

Now keep in mind that if you do that to ME twice, the third time I am going to flash root, seed seed ult and flash mastery while I walk away not watching the explosion. So you need to mix it up from time to time.

Try taking that summoner swap rune on Leona. Come back to lane after 6 with cleanse then bait out her root, cleanse flash e between when the root lands and before t plant spawn animation finishes. You should be able to to solo kill her at that point since you just outplayed her full blown combo and will only have like 800 max health at that point.

If you are worried about yield then you need early hourglass. As soon as his alpha animation starts Q seed seed ult at your feet then pop hourglass. Spam flash and as soon as you flash turn and root. Flash mastery as you walk away while your giant plants poke new holes in his brain.

Personally though I prefer to use a teammate as bait then I can stand just out of reach and let her full wicked awesome laugh animation complete during the brain poking.

If you want an advanced level challenge after your team overstays on an inhibitors push, try baiting the enemy team down the lane by staying just within almost kill reach but using CD timing, terrain and rando seeds to keep half a step ahead all while you have 4 teammates spamming danger pings anywhere there is free space on your screen. Do this until they have respawned and made it back to reality engage.

If you can manage the last one without dying and still can tell me that zyra is a face roll champ then I would Love to know which supports you classify as high skill cap.

Zyra is how I learned positioning, kill threat, multiple angle zoning during incoming gank and master baiting techniques. It made me a much better mid lane too.

One last tip. If you ever think you see zyra d/c in the middle of lane, no matter how long she stands in one spot just autoing and taking minion damage don't do what you are thinking of doing. It's a trap, Trust me... It's a trap.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

Lmfao. It's nice to see a humorous response.

Yeah. I understand there's all sorts of new tricks on the new runes with all champs (already had a summoner swap Zoe..... that's fun since she can actually use her W).

Personally for a Leona Zenith, I usually avoid but if I do get caught I auto flash before she stuns and while she is Zenith. This changes where you are in vs her when she wants to go i for her Q. Wastes her attempt, and you're still in E range to root her.

I've personally always had a problem with an hourglass as a Morgana player. I learned very early on that Hourglassing as Morgana usually leads to death, because of the obvious premeditated wait to be vulnerable after it (Plus champs can very easily get away from Morgana if she's Zhonya'd instead of chasing them around) Thus I try to find non Zhonya reliant ways to fight. (I'll still buy it on certain comps, but more for CDR and Armor than for the active, unless I can guaranteed getting out of a turret dive or something after the Zhonyas).

Anywho... apply that to a Yi situation. 1) I never get close enough on Zyra to a Yi to be Alpha'd. And, I keep E up in case he DOES Alpha. Better to root Yi after taking damage than to try to throw an E into an Alpha. The reason I brought up building plants in his path, is that Yi can't Meditate in Highlander or it's over. If he's Highlander chasing you, plants will be attacking him, which results in choices: conserve my HP as YI, or keep running through them and reach my target with low HP and risk dying. Usually, the choice is to try to kill the plants, which results in him losing Highlander, meaning by the time he reaches you, slow is effective again. Then you can just pop him, if he's stupid enough to chase.

If I Zhonya a YI, it's very likely that he's going to ONLY take damage from the ult, he's going to run outside the circle to avoid the knockup, and then he's going to wait out your Zhonya timer, and since you Zhonya'd his Alpha will be up, because he couldn't target you. The Flash might take you some distance away and you might have root, but the setup is so contrived that it's really just a gambit. If you flash and it's not over a wall, Yi can probably execute an Alpha Strike the same time as you attempt your root, and Untouchable will prevent the root. Or, you might hit the root and do as prescribed. It's a hit or miss strategy.

Teammate baiting is something I do on many champs, but I'm scared of losing that teammate to death. You only have 4, and if they die while you use it, they may have been a teammate you needed alive to actually win.

On Inhib: I'm a Karma semi- main. I do the lane zoning religiously. Although Karma has a backup speed boost for the lane pushing team, I'm pretty used to zoning a push. Zyra's just a different set of tools. If you have someone who breaks rank and chases to kill, you root him instead of using a speed boost. If you need distance, you spawn plants to slow/chisel them down. If they start to come in for a Zerg, you can place a plant zone/ult where they WILL be/on the edge of where they are, so that if they continue the chase, they run into a free ult, plants, take a lot of damage, and potentially die when you root 2 of them.

I dunno. Maybe when you say "face roll champ/braindead," you're referring to Janna and then maybe Sona. I generally agree on a Janna, and Sona is iffy (while she can do okay as a spam lord, knowing how to use her Passive takes skill to set up right and use appropriately), That's not what I'm saying on Zyra. I'm saying: I'm used to skill shots, and As a skill shotter, Zyra is one of the easiest. Her choices are not near as hard choices as say..... a Thresh or a LeBlanc or a Zoe or Gangplank. They're not NEAR as hard as an Elise. There's no difficult setup. Your kit's ready when you are.

Gives No LuxNov 26, 20171 votes

{quoted} And don't kid yourselfs supports: If your AVERAGE score on a no kill support is 0/8/20, you didn't do a good job. Even Thresh and Blitz can go 1-4 deaths vs any team, so a 0/8 likely means you have more to learn.

Personally, I would advise you ignore this advice. Yes, not giving the enemy more gold than is necessary is certainly sound advice however if 4 or 5 of those deaths resulted in you turning the tide of a team fight and your side taking an objective or two afterwards then you certainly did a great job.

In the end only the W or L matters. Especially in the low ranks KDA is often meaningless. If you're going to be a support main you have to learn to be underappreciated. I can't even count the number of times I'll finish the game with a 5+ KDA, top damage, double the wards of the rest of the team combined and an S rating while the 13/9 ADC gets 3x honors and a rousing chorus of 'great job Vayne!' It just comes with the territory.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

That's semantics and talking about a single game. it you noticed, I capitalized 'Aveerage.' I took have games where I take the suicide to gain a turret/kill, but 1) I try not to give a kill in exchange and 2) It's not my AVERAGE. Most games you won't need to suicide to get results.

If you look at Thresh's average KDA, it's 2.43/5.83/14.57. That's about a 3 KDA. 0/8/20 is a 2.5 KDA. HUGE difference. Sometimes you might have landed good hooks due to the 20 assists, but I can guarantee none of those hooks was worth you dying, if you had the ability to live or tank out of it.

It's okay if you have a 0/8/20 occasionally..... but if that's your EVERY game, there's something wrong. You're probably being praised for a subpar job then. The goal is to aim for that 2.43/5.83/14.57. If you can managed to die 2 less times, and kill 3 more people, do it.

If a Nami goes 0/8/20, there's DEFINITELY something wrong. Yet, that's what a lot of Nami's are doing, dragging down the averages. My average over 4 accounts is a KDA of 4.61, with an average of 3.5/4.4/16.8. Overperforming on Kills, Assists and Deaths.

Gives No LuxNov 27, 20171 votes

If your other accounts history is like this one it looks like you spent the season abusing Ardent Censor. The OP said he liked Rakan because he's a playmaker support you look to prefer the passive supports. Different strokes for different folks.

If you routinely go 0/8/20 and have a 51% or higher win rate doing it then your KDA is meaningless and you've obviously doing something right. Using KDA as a yardstick for support performance provides very little value at all. Next to support it's only less meaningful on tanks. This is why riot put in a whole ton of statistics available in the client so you have much better representative data.

This totally reminds me of all those games with Zoe mid ending like 4/4/16 with top damage, top CC, second highest vision and highest KP% and having some 12/11/3 Vayne derp shouting 'look at your score, you did nothing' in the post game chat.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

Just because I've played Sona doesn't mean I've abused a Censer. In fact I more commonly rush Iceborne, not Censer (although I've used it) Furthermore, the Censer argument is ludicrous; both teams used it, and it was not in fact why teams were winning near as much as presented, and it wasn't really over strong during the periods where it didn't give Healing on hit. I don't know if you've noticed, but Season 8 everyone has even more attack speed, even without Censer. What was winning was merely the fact non target champs beat those who have to target.

I'm not a huge fan of purely KDA yardsticks, but again, that's what averages are for. 51% as a support doing horribly is easy. Doing 70% is harder, but what's expected of supports. 60% is what's expected of carries.

Gives No LuxNov 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Just because I've played Sona doesn't mean I've abused a Censer.

After Evelyn your top played S7 champs are (drumroll please): Sona Nami Karma Morgana Lux Ornn Soraka

What, no Janna? You can't have Ardent Censor All Stars without Janna! C'mon man!

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

I've played Nami since Season 4. I've played Karma since Season 4. Sona since Season 5. Morgana Season 4 (with Victorious Skin) Lux Season 6. Ornn (Mastery 7 within 3 days of release, mostly S, as Support/Jung). Soraka is a rarely played champ at all.

P.S.: You missed Leona.

Season 7 Other Account:

Nami Karma Ornn Miss Fortune Leona Sona Evelynn Rakan Sion Jinx Sivir Nidalee Tristana Taliyah

Season 7 Other account 2:

Karma Evelynn Nami Sona Miss Fortune Udyr Zyra Lux Sion Morgana Nidalee Taliyah Shyvana Ahri Warwick Jinx Vi Ezreal

Season 6:

Evelynn Karma Morgana Sona Lux Nami Taliyah Udyr Zyra Sion Ahri Heimerdinger Shyvana Illaoi Yorick Poppy Vi Caitlyn Jinx

Season 5:

Udyr Karma Nami Morg Sion Vi Heimerdinger

Season 4:

Udyr Teemo Nami Morgana Heimerdinger Mundo Master Yi Kha Zix Thresh Sion Tryndamere Amumu Nasus Gangplank Fiora Katarina Akali Quinn Sivir Twisted Fate

Also a note:

Most of my Karma games are not support. Most are either Jungle, or Top. About 1/3 of my Morgana games are jungle, and about half are Mid. Sion Jungle Leona is Jungle. Rakan is Jungle Lux is more mid than support Taliyah is almost exclusively Jungle

My Nami rate has been a consistent 60% + since Season 4. (before Censer etc) My Karma is generally a tank Karma (although I have gone Censer for the move speed) My Morgana is generally tank or AP. I very RARELY grab a Censer. My Lux rarely got Censer. Ornn is not a Censer champ. I never rushed a Censer on a Soraka. (her heals are too unreliable).

Best Vi EarthNov 27, 20171 votes

nah dont play mage supports as a novice. you need to learn to support first before you can carry.

Makior72Nov 25, 20174 votes

As a support main myself, I would have to say the best supports to be maining right now are Leona Rakan Lulu Sona

out of those, I prefer Rakan, and consider him my main at this point, even though I have been playing lulu a lot lately. If you have a good adc to duo with, Leona will let you win lane a bit harder, but its riskier than rakan in that if you get behind you cant really do much of anything as Leona except maybe roam to another lane.

dabearlightningNov 26, 20171 votes

Thanks for the advice! And I know support is not easy. I'm good with warding, trading, etc. just csing and farming for myself has never really clicked. I think I'll buy Rakan right now and try him out in normals.

MysterQNov 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the advice! And I know support is not easy. I'm good with warding, trading, etc. just csing and farming for myself has never really clicked. I think I'll buy Rakan right now and try him out in normals.

Good luck.

But again, it is great to main one champ. But you can't/not likely to do that. And I feel like it is more important to be flexible in support, whereas in top or something knowing your champion can be more influential.

dabearlightningNov 26, 20171 votes

That makes sense. I also own/can play thresh and braum so between bard, thresh, rakan, and braum I should be able to pick a support for the situation.

Gear JammerNov 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That makes sense. I also own/can play thresh and braum so between bard, thresh, rakan, and braum I should be able to pick a support for the situation.

I would consider grabbing a poke heavy support as well like Sona can work great with champs like ezreal and Caitlyn that may want to be passive and poke until the enemy is low before even considering an all in.

AzadetheNov 26, 20171 votes

Personally as pure support my Order is: Sona Nami Karma Blitzcrank Zyra Lux Janna Braum

The ones I didn't mention are actually better as supporting from somewhere else on the map. (Leona is better roaming as a jungler by far [still playes like a support, but sets up for everyone, not just adc], Rakan if you can pull it off is a better jungler [played as a tank/mage]. etc)

Support PositionNov 26, 20173 votes

Soraka Hello my name is I'm always overpowered no matter how much they nerf me I will always be viable.

item 3303 item 2031 First items especially now.

item 2049 item 2045 item 3504 item 3092 item 3083 item 3158 these are just core. >.>

item 3107 item 3190 item 3222 (please DONT BUY IF YOU DONT USE.) item 3116 item 3151

item 1082 buy if enemy team bot is awful. Super damage for Q E. SUPER heals for Q, W, R

Teemo of botlane.

Also EVERYTIME you play support NEVER buy item 2003 why bother. Waste of gold. item 2031 everytime you back. 2 more pots ALL game. Plus when you get refill instead of the garbage pots. You learn how to not take poke much. If ever. And if you do. Pfft just back big deal.

MysterQNov 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZB7yMdXE,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2017-11-26T17:13:14.663+0000)

Hello my name is I'm always overpowered no matter how much they nerf me I will always be viable.

First items especially now.

these are just core. >.>

(please DONT BUY IF YOU DONT USE.)

buy if enemy team bot is awful. Super damage for Q E. SUPER heals for Q, W, R

Teemo of botlane.

Also EVERYTIME you play support NEVER buy why bother. Waste of gold. everytime you back. 2 more pots ALL game. Plus when you get refill instead of the garbage pots. You learn how to not take poke much. If ever. And if you do. Pfft just back big deal.

My games this season, lanephase ends the first or second time you back most of the time. Granted Refill will help you slightly outside of lane too, but I mostly use pots then.

Support PositionNov 27, 20171 votes

Then you get really bad team mates :/ I usually back up to 5 times before the games even started.

PsybicilinNov 26, 20172 votes

I recommend playing Zyra if you are below plat. She is easy to learn with a decent skill ceiling, and you will want to play damage dealers in low elos. Plus you have very good peel for such a high damage champion.

NekoniClawsNov 26, 20172 votes

Honestly, if you're not doing well as controlling map + objectives I would not go support for ranked. Unless you can predict the enemy team and know how to ward effectively and safely, you're going to end up hard stuck bronze. Bard roams constantly, Rakan roams a lot too, and if you don't have map awareness to engage fights at a safe time you will be punished. It's an additional learning curve.

If you're set on support go a lane hugger. Sona, Janna, Lulu... or go for a tank that can survive mistakes and poor timing - Leona, Nautilus and Blitzcrank (they flourish if you can ward + make picks too)

DNFVixenNov 26, 20172 votes

Sona, Blitz, Thresh, and Soraka, and Alister. Sona Blitzcrank Thresh ----------- Soraka ---------- Alistar

KoggyStyleNov 26, 20172 votes

Nami my fave

Who is TaliyahNov 27, 20172 votes

ANY champ work to main. It all depends on how determined you are.

If you like Rakan and Tahm Kench, buy them (or one of them) they are both fun to play and have their own unique strenghts. They work if you learn to play them and to handle different situations well.

Clapper of AssesNov 26, 20171 votes

[deleted]

ClementineNov 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lantern Baits,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZB7yMdXE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-11-26T03:42:02.540+0000)

Wanna do damage and (average) peel for adc

Wanna be a meat shield

Wanna abuse Aftershock

Wanna set up picks

Wanna protect the adc through CC (Really good peel and disengage)

Wanna have a good mix of everything (Jack of all trades not good at one specific thing)

Wanna tilt your enemies

Wanna take ignite to lane

Want a champ that takes a while to master

Wanna heal adc

Wanna make a sandwich instead of lane

Wanna get ban

This is my opinion, i main thresh, tahm, and braum. I tried to make a list of what champs are known for just find things you like and see if any champ is in both suggestions. If you are a beginner you can play whatever you want, support is not really mechanics it's more game knowledge, like where to ward and when to engage. Once you find a support you like the game knowledge will accumulate as you learn them, so it really doesn't matter, all preferences buddy.

Taric takes Guardian.

ampheonNov 26, 20171 votes

Taric can go Aftershock or Guardian, depending on what you want

Jeanne fan clubNov 26, 20171 votes

Nami feels like the strongest support in the game rn

Primary runes Sorcery path: summon arie optional (i run ultimate hat), transcendence, scorch / gathering storm

Secondary Runes Precision path : Presence of mind, last stand Domination path : Zombie ward, ravenous hunter / ingenious hunter / relentless hunter / taste of blood Resolve path : Font of life, Revitalize Inspiration path : Biscuits, Cosmic insight

Build Starting: item 3303 item 2003 item 3340 First back : item 3098 item 2055 Core : item 3174 item 3504 item 3117 / item 3009 item 3158 item 3111 item 3047 item 3364 Other items that you should buy : item 3165 item 3092 item 3157 item 3107 item 3222 item 3190

Ability leveling priority : R > W > E > Q

There is a lot of other options you can do but this is the setup that works best for me

Hope this helps, I know a lot of supports, this is just the one that feels the strongest to me right now

ask any other questions of you have them, I will be happy to help

PsybicilinNov 26, 20171 votes

SpyKayleNov 26, 20171 votes

I am actually not that much of a support player, but I myself gravitated to braum on the few occasions I do play support. You could try him out sometime. Although if you wanted I could help you with learning jungle. I play a lot of it and am quite adept at the role.

TargonNov 26, 20171 votes

Karma is quite strong at the moment. She might have one of the strongest level 1s currently with how absurdly high her R>Q damage with enemies having less MR + Aery + Scorch. Ultimate hat drastically improves her laning phase too. You can play her as a secondary AP carry. I've had success with item 2049 item 3092 item 3020 item 3151 item 3135 , but you can also play her as a more traditional support and buy stuff like item 3107 item 3504 item 3190 item 3222 if that's what your team needs. Karma's main weaknesses are that she is very squishy early, so positioning is key as to not eat too much harass or get hooked by a Blitzcrank/Thresh. Her damage and support capabilities also tend to fall off late game too.

RenownedWheat42Nov 26, 20171 votes

The ones I love the most (some off-meta, here):

Shen Alistar Braum Nautilus Maokai Rakan

For all but Rakan, my build is basically the same, which I'll show below. Sometimes I'll switch it up, but tank supp + aftershock + this build has worked consistently for me. item 3401 item 2045 item 3190 item 3193 item 3083 item 3117

Shen is amazing for early harass. He's unexpected and always underestimated. Early Qs HURT, W lets you win the 2v2 trade every time, and a good EQ combo almost guarantees a kill on an immobile opponent (flash/escapes on cooldown if they have any). Global ult makes you a threat everywhere, and since you're down in the bot lane, people will forget this, like, everywhere. Turn a 1v2 to a 2v2 top (or a 3v2 if your jungler is also on the way), etc. Shen is amazing here.

Alistar is just king of the beefcakes. His healing passive is great for lane sustain, and he's got three forms of hard CC. One on each basic ability. So he's got PLENTY of ways to proc Aftershock. The headbutt>pulverize>trample combo is really good and pretty standard/reliable. You can also pop out, headbutt first, pulverize to keep em locked down while you use trample and then keep em CC locked for a couple seconds. His ult is also great in every team fight, for tower diving, soaking skillshots for your ADC, etc. All around, the cow is fuckin awesome.

Braum 's shield alone is incredibly annoying, but concussive blows is scary good, his Q is great consistent harass, and his WE are both great for defending in a pinch. Jump to your ally, beef em up, soak all enemy skillshots with your shield while your ADC unloads for free, and you've got a good trade. The ultimate is also amazing, and incredibly reliable. Fantastic to keep people locked down. Fantastic for negating skillshots. Great zone control with ult. All around, Braum is awesome.

Nautilus is just honestly a pain in the ass to deal with. hard CC + bonus damage on his first auto is great for harass. QEauto/QautoE is good lockdown, and will usually force an enemy flash. Also, his W makes him a tanky monster that no one has a fun time dealing with, at really any stage of the game. Ult is also great lockdown, AND it's targeted. So, that's nice.

Maokai is one of my favorites of all time. I start E + item 3341 with him, for what I assume are obvious reasons. Free wards, plus early access to denying vision. It's nice! His passive is also great sustain, his Q is both hard CC AND a slow, his W is point and click hard CC, his E is long range harass, slow, vision, and %HP damage. His ult is also AMAZING for zoning/lockdown, like basically everyone else on this list. Maokai is not fun to deal with in the botlane.

Rakan , pretty simple. Good sustain with shield and heals, great mobility. Long-range initiation if you E to an ally, flash-W in. Ult before you W and now you've got instant, long-range CC, but it comes with sacrificed length. He's quick, he's reliable, he's got heals, shields, AND hard CC, and he's very mobile. Not really anywhere you can go wrong with him once you've really put time into him.

LexLutheran87Nov 26, 20171 votes

The nice thing about support is how flexible it is.

Your team lacking AP grab a mage; my current is velkoz, the enemy usually makes the mistake of not itemizing against you.

Team needs a tank? I've been having hella fun with Sion.

Have a Kogma or Vayne, I grab Lulu

Have a really good dive comp, grab taric, piggy back CC is OP.

You're first pick and your team isn't showing anything, I grab Janna, she fits with everybody with her epic peals. Other times I just say screw it and run velkoz anyway.

Tldr: support has the greatest amount of flexibility than any other position, select a pool of champs to abuse this.

ThewannabegamerNov 26, 20171 votes

Bards totally legit to main if your already comfortable on him, he/it can be a playmaker but also serves fine in a poke lane. All around flexible champion that works well in many scenarios. I would recommend having 3-4 champions in your pool though that you feel comfortable on. Tahm Kench and Rakan are totally solid as well especially tahm after his recent buffs. But i'd also recommend taking a look at Morgana and thresh because they tend to not have many hard counters and are great at peeling and setting up your adc for success, as well as excellent roam potential. Alistar's also a personal favorite of mine. The roles pretty deep so just find a few champs that work for you and do your best to learn their specific combos/interactions that way you avoid times where you feel like you have nothing to do other then stand next to your adc or under tower.

MicbranNov 26, 20171 votes

I wouldn’t worry too much about playing the meta, you’re not a challenger player

I Main SwainNov 26, 20171 votes

i would enormously suggest Rakan as a first go. ive been playing for a long time and for a year or two i played pretty much nothing but thresh and braum, and it took me a while to get really good at them, but Rakan (and this may just be because he works well with my playstyle) i got down solid before the end of my first game with him, hes now almost the only support i ever play. hes extremely versatile because he can play both offensively and defensively with solid peel and great initiations, very mobile, and his build is pretty versatile as well. while he is much stronger with xayah, hes still very good without her. anyways, other than him i would say braum, leona, soraka, and thresh would be great ones to work on once youve got some solid rakan skills. out of all of them i personally would say that thresh is the only one that might be difficult to master, but he has easily the highest potential of any support imo