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If nobody cares about skarner, Why am i posting this?

FrozenSol··1 votes·2,789 views

Why doesn't people play Skarner? Well there are quite afew reasons. You guy's don't realize tank skarner isn't fun? On the Rework you removed so much damage from his ultimate. Then several years later you finally give him some attention... You increase his stun duration? Really? You removed 40% (Which Double procs, so 80%) TAD Ratio from his R, no wonder he isn't played as a tank And you wanted to give him 0.5 More stun on his E? Now doesn't get me wrong, the AS/MS provided through CC = Spire buff was good & all, but if you wanted that, give him back his Old Q... (Also note that it was nerfed very soon later by 0.25, now the stun was something interesting to work around, But all it lead to was him being shoe horned into the tank role... AND Tanks aren't fun, and if you think conqueror is the reason you clearly don't play this game. -For one, Mages have access to a 40% Magic Pen Item... -They also get a percent MAX Health Damage per second -Not to mention the fact MR is so low in comparison to armor But just tell me it's that 200-1000 true damage per game that ruins tanks from conqueror... Hell aatrox can't even scratch a damn ornn because of the sheer stats of Armor. And here i stand... Skarner, a champion that is so lowly played because tanks aren't fun

Why don't you consider this? Remember how you guys Mini-reworked Rek'sai because she was a CC Bot, Well Skarner is in that exact same position & could benefit from such changes to his ratios. After all, Skarner isn't a protector or a guardian in the lore, so why is he so defensive? His a creature whose entire kind has been stripped away & seeks revenge for his kind, What is he gonna do? Wait until somebody else comes and kills them for him? Or is he going to tear through their limbs & bones, Seperating feeble tendons & ravage their world

Changes i had thought about over the years Include -His W Shielding increasing based off Nearby Champions being CC -But having lower scalings & a base Shield & Shared AD Ratios. -Example: W 30/50/70/90/110 - 5/5/6/6/7% Max Health & 80% Bonus AD -Increase: 5% Each time nearby enemy unit is stunned (Max 30% Per W)\

-Reducing Stun duration on E but making the Spire buff on it doubled in duration. -Also Allow the Spire buff Duration to Stack -Example: E Stun 0.75, But Spire Buff duration is 1.5 Seconds & Stacks

Additional Idea's -Change Mana Regen on Spire to 5% Missing Mana from 2% Max Mana per second. -Try reverting Skarner But more as a Rengar Revert where he loses & Gains features from both -Find another keystone to push onto skarner rather than just Predator

(Sidenote: I hope nimbus Cloak is good on skarner, Considering you are removing ZZ Rot & Raptors cloak, my dear items)

Overall, can't wait for this to be ignored entirely, sincerly someone who desperate for change & loves skarner.

16 Comments

JustDonnyy1 votes

I just went against a Skarner top-lane one trick who dicked on my entire team.

I didn't even read the entire post but I just felt like I should drop this bit of information.

FrozenSol1 votes

Any champion can beat anything in Normals, i've beaten people as skarner top going ap, mostly fighters.

Doesn't really speak much volume Edit: Also he was a smurf btw

Posui Gart1 votes

People don't play him because he is boring, unfun and has almost 0 skill expression. Other than a low number of players who pick him for being Skarner, everyone else will only pick him if he is strong, and we can't have a strong Skarner. Let him stay like this before rework

FrozenSol1 votes

Correction, Tanks aren't fun.

When you are allowed to play skarner as a bruiser like many seasons ago, You would come in & out of combat with the move speed from Stun & Shield, Waiting for Cooldowns & peeling for backline as either Tank Or Bruiser.

And another thing, simplitity breeds expression. Skarner isn't given a billion dashes to escape from his failures More options doesn't mean higher skill always, It just means you have more escapes, more banages. And usually when given such ability for "Expression" It will lead to plays that are obviously better than any other play Learning 1-2 Combos & repeating until they die. Results of such kits were Ryze with his Cast E-W-Q win the trade & lane I mean afterall, lets take say a "Skillful" champ like xerath You don't have to interact with your laner because of your range Or Riven, sorry to tell you but clicking on the ground to cancel Q animation isn't skill expression, It's just something you learn & Dashes aren't skill expression either They just get punished less, but that's skill expression right?

But according to you, Timing Skarner R against EX: Lee R, Tris R, Syndra E, Etc doesn't take skill.

Not to mention skarner R is a defective Malzhar R, Skarner R can be dodged by Leaving the 800 Range in the 0.25 Root duration, With channeled Dashing or Jumps, EX: Ezreal E, Camile E, And there is this item called Quicksilver? heard of it?

What you seem to be missing is the game is much more than micro play with your champ, It's about your macro play & your thought process. If everything was about micro, there wouldn't be people with millions of points on their champion stuck in bronze & iron

I mean seriously, the post was about how he shouldn't be a CC Bot, and wanted less stuns, and more back & forth combat. Not to mention nothing i mentioned was just begging for buffs, I acknowledge that it should be a give & take situtation, So no actually, i don't think we should leave him in this state until he is reworked

Posui Gart1 votes

Tanks aren't fun.

And Skarner is even less fun than champions like Ornn or Sej

that's skill expression right?

Skill expression is a mechanic that allows you to express your skill. Something that can produce different results based on your and enemy skill. Skarner's skill expression(aside from what every other champion has) are hitting his E and timing R correctly, not nearly as much. Macro is an important factor too, but its almost the same for every champion.

I mean seriously, the post was about how he shouldn't be a CC Bot, and wanted less stuns, and more back & forth combat.

That would be nice, but that would require buffing his mobility and nerfing CC, especially ultimate

FrozenSol1 votes

Looks at paper, "Sej is more fun than skarner" Hang on... Her bloody passive is raw stats & deals damage for attacking opponents she CC Her Q is Dash Knockup Her W is skill shot slow that leads into auto stun (from E) Her E is kind of cool how it works with melees, so points there i guess. And her R is just a skillshot Stun that slows.

But if compare the exact same kit to Skarner His passive is raw stats in said areas, His Q is Consistent Damage His W is a shield with MS His E is skill shot slow that leads into auto stun (from e)... wait And his ult is a 0.25 root with 1.75 Suppress where you get to pull around the enemy.

Gonna be honest chief, don't see it & i loved myself some sej but really?

Second, The interactions between said champions is how you define it? Okay lets breakdown a game, lets say verse a very "Skill expressive" champ, lee sin. They both farm for a bit then decide to gank, Lee sin W-AA-E-AA-E-AA-Q-Q (Throw in second W when you feel like it) Skarner W-Q-E-AA-AA-Q-AA-Q

So they both get close to their enemy so they can hit their skillshot, Just lee has the option to ward hop & slow before said skillshot by double tapping. They both weave in attacks between Abilities, Skarner Auto's inbetween for Q Cooldown Lee autos inbetween for AS granted off Passive

Now heres the thing, Skarner can travel through his jungle rather fast, Thanks to his passive & W. But lee travels normally & By hitting monsters with Q This means skarner will have more plays open to him just off the sheer movespeed alone. And when you need to make plays & alot of the, you need more Macro Lee's gank's are better but you can match his presence, especially with predator.

Now around level 6 is where you would see is "amazing" shift in expression But most lee ganks don't require a flashly insec into team. They merely require what was being down before, Sometimes he may come from behind them & W/Q Or Q/W Then R Otherwise his just using it to finish people off or proc yasuo ulti

Skarner with ulti is about the same, You could flash ult just like lee, but it usually doesn't matter You just walk up behind, W-Q/E Or W-E/Q then R It's the same shit again.

And the damn differences is lee's R can also be used as a skillshot And you want to Ward hop R Then flash to direct the kick into team. It's not ground breaking & isn't some unworldly play It's just another play you recite & wait for it to be useful

Did you know turning skarners ult before the end can result in extra range pulled? Even if you didn't, it just doesn't matter. It's an extra feature that barely contributes Or chaining together E Into R Into E, it's neat but will barely come up as nessacry.

With these "Skill expressive" Champions, they're goal is to make your opponent interact less And if skill expression is interaction, then your arguement is even worse. Think about it, Gangplank wants to chain barrels for the least reaction time. Yasuo would love to E-Q Flash Auto into Ult so you don't get to play Lee sin would love to kill you while you are cc by his ulti Nothing about this is interaction, just little interaction you can fit in.

I know this is slightly off topic but it relates, in yugioh you are given access to every card that existed But with such access, there be a definitive best combonation that works & will mostly be used & repeated. Your goal in yugioh nowadays is to decrease your opponents ability to interact through "Skill Expression" Where you use "Skill expression" To remove what you call "Skill expression" Aka, the interaction. So you try to stop your opponent from doing anything, That is why you use CC Bots in the first place

In short, your definition is flawed. You talk about skill expression through champions, But the main skill expression comes from your ability to understand the game. If i've crafted a brilliant spear but im i don't know how to use it, then it's bloody useless If i know all the combo's to say riven, but don't know when to ward, rotate, engage or pick her in general, Then it isn't going to mean shit if i just keep animation canceling Q by tapping the ground & autoing, if i don't know when to fight.

AND FINALLY, buffing mobility & nerfing ult? Are... are you okay there buddy? His mobility is fine, rather too much actually with predator. Second you fail to realize that E is the over arching CC in his kit, Being reduced by the R Supress duration (not counting the 0.25 root), you will nearly always have E up after Ult to chain together But if you nerf E, it nerfs R.

Posui Gart1 votes

Her bloody passive is raw stats & deals damage for attacking opponents she CC

Her passive can be played around. Enemy can try to damage her and wait before her armor is gone, Sej can try to stay out of combat and regain it back, and she can intentionally catch some damage and slows while the armor is still on. Skarner's passive is just more stats at some places. You can try to fight enemies near the spires but thats basically it

Her Q is Dash Knockup

That can be used from afar to close the distance, or at melee range to guarantee CC, or both if you manage to hit it Meanwhile Skarner's Q is just a generic damage tool with nice synergy with Sheen and passive AS but thats it

Her W is skill shot slow that leads into auto stun

2 skillshots with different areas, 2nd shot can be aimed by moving, like with Lucian's ult Skarner's W is a shield+ms boost.

And her R is just a skillshot Stun that slows.

And, because it is a skillshot, it can miss. Or not, if you hit that skillshot. It also has better effect if hit from afar, so there is a choice between dashing in and reliably throwing ult, or risking and using ult from afar

Skarner's R is a melee point-and-click cc. Sure, you can time it before enemy throws you away, and you can move the enemy under allied skillshots, but nothing much here.

With these "Skill expressive" Champions, they're goal is to make your opponent interact less

I already said what "skill expression" is: the ability to express skill. I don't know where you got that connection between "skill expression" and "interaction"

AND FINALLY, buffing mobility & nerfing ult? Are... are you okay there buddy? His mobility is fine, rather too much actually with predator. Second you fail to realize that E is the over arching CC in his kit, Being reduced by the R Supress duration (not counting the 0.25 root), you will nearly always have E up after Ult to chain together But if you nerf E, it nerfs R.

His mobility is fine for a CC bot. Not so fine for your "back and forth combat" you want. If his E is not nerfed, he WILL be a cc bot. His ult is just too strong, so everything else is all about "how can i get to that enemy and ult him". Remove it, and he has to actually build some damage and try to actually outplay people to be useful while at the same time gives some space for buffs that add that outplay possibilities

Shahamut1 votes

https://youtu.be/2A3nFtWlBKc

Skill expression. Skill is 100% always a display of decision making: being able to use the tools you have at the right times for best effect.

Skarner has plenty of ability to express skillful play. The only thing hurting Skarner right now is his passive and overloaded E, as it causes everything else in his kit to suffer.

Skarners ult is not and never has been a problem. Crystal Venom Skarner was a perfectly fine champion. They didnt update Skarner in the jugger-fail update because he was a problem, but because they wanted to try making him more unique and give him some kind of niche.

Not because he was imbalanced, or bad, or even unpopular (he had around a 3% pickrate then). It was literally just, well why not Skarner?

It's not what tools you have that depict skill expression, it's how they are used.

You can argue having more tools gives you more potential for skill expression, but that's as far as it goes.

PhearBunny1 votes

Skarner is too hard to play, with too little of reward. If you dont land your E, youre done. And that thing is narrow, short, and predictable, so goodluck. He needs alot of change.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Tanks aren't fun to play on a kit level.

Their perfectly viable as a class, just no one wants to be carried.

Tanks by design are not allowed to be damage threats.

FrozenSol1 votes

My point is he originally wasn't identified as a tank And was classified as a juggernaut. With how much his fallen from his image I just can't see a bigger disconnect from the character itself

Kovorix1 votes

Tanks are fun to play but only when you can do what you are designed to do and not get nerfed into the ground.

PhearBunny1 votes

His passive and his R, need total overhauls. His R doesn't even make sense, why is a scorpion dragging things? Its a stinger, not a tow truck.

Imo it should be a point and click sting debuff/buff. Crystal Sting: Deals/heals max health% true damage per second for 6seconds ending in a crystalline stasis. Has a slowing effect that intensifies by the second. 30/40/50/65/90%slow/ 2.5second stasis. on enemy targets. On friendly targets, increases movespeed by 5/10/15/20/45% movespeed increase/2.5second stasis

Not usable on yourself*

Kovorix1 votes

Are you realy coming with sense in a fantasy game?

squido1 votes

I used to play skarner in early season 5 top lane. Fun as hell with zzrot. Then they reworked him exclusively into a jungler so I left the character.

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