Mid annie

lewd catgirls·Aug 16, 2015·5 votes·849 views

Fuck this champion.

Seriously, there's just no possible counterplay. She has a free 2,25 sec stun every 4 seconds, a built in sunfire, an absurd thornmail defense boost, and on top of that, a ridiculous burst including a 9.8 AP ratio on her ult.

Infamous zoning for the whole laning phase, free fucking farm which leads to her having 90 cs at 10 mins because she just has to press q and get gold, while you are just getting zoned because if you go anywhere within a 475 distance between you and your cs you get stunned for 2.25 secs and take 600 free damage without being able to do anything.

Oh yeah, about her q.

I wouldn't bitch if she had to actually do some skilled thing to get so much damage and cc, but she just has to press r and q. And you Rioters rework Fiora and Tristana by telling us their gameplay is becoming old ? Come on. I'd be less surprised if you decided to rework Vel'Koz.

Fuck AP Annie.

Fuck everyone who's playing AP Annie.

And fuck whoever thought implenting a 9.8 AP ratio on a champion would be a good idea.

14 Comments

Leaf of the lakeAug 16, 20154 votes

It's not 2.25s. Her stun is 1.25s at lv1, 1.5s at lv6, and 1.75s at lv11, which does not scale any higher after that.
Her ult only has a 980% ratio on it if you stand in it for 45 seconds. This is not hyperbole. You would need to stand in her ult for 45 seconds for it to have a 980% rato. Or get hit by the initial burst and stand in it for 41 seconds. Either way, this is never going to happen. Ever.

I actually thought you were exaggerating about having stun up every 4s, but then I thought about it and you're right on that point. In ideal circumstances, she Qs a minion to use up the stun, then Qs a minion 2s later, then has QWER available 2s after that. That said, if she's holding her stun to zone you, you can use abilities to farm from a distance and push the wave up. When the wave hits tower, she'll have no choice but to blow it to last hit under tower, which is your ideal time to chunk her.

I notice you play a lot of viktor. This is a matchup which by all rights you should win. Annie can't get close enough to viktor to harass him without getting into his laser range. And unless she gets fed off of other lanes, she isn't going to 100-0 you for quite some time, making the threat of a sudden flash engage much less threatening. If you're losing this lane, you need to make her respect your range more.

lewd catgirlsAug 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf of the lake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYBdEM7X,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-16T07:52:12.896+0000)

It's not 2.25s. Her stun is 1.25s at lv1, 1.5s at lv6, and 1.75s at lv11, which does not scale any higher after that.

Her ult only has a 980% ratio on it if you stand in it for 45 seconds. This is not hyperbole. You would need to stand in her ult for 45 seconds for it to have a 980% rato. Or get hit by the initial burst and stand in it for 41 seconds. Either way, this is never going to happen. Ever.

I actually thought you were exaggerating about having stun up every 4s, but then I thought about it and you're right on that point. In ideal circumstances, she Qs a minion to use up the stun, then Qs a minion 2s later, then has QWER available 2s after that. That said, if she's holding her stun to zone you, you can use abilities to farm from a distance and push the wave up. When the wave hits tower, she'll have no choice but to blow it to last hit under tower, which is your ideal time to chunk her.

I notice you play a lot of viktor. This is a matchup which by all rights you should win. Annie can't get close enough to viktor to harass him without getting into his laser range. And unless she gets fed off of other lanes, she isn't going to 100-0 you for quite some time, making the threat of a sudden flash engage much less threatening. If you're losing this lane, you need to make her respect your range more.

After checking I've seen the stun is actually 1.75 seconds, my bad I guess. But still a free 1.75 sec stun every 4 seconds is pretty bullshit. And even without that 9.8 AP ratio, it's still a lot of bullshit burst.

She has to get close to me to burst me right, but I can't even gtet 625 distance close to her before I get a free 1.75 sec stun, which lead to being oneshot because of that total bullshit burst.

Leaf of the lakeAug 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elesis OP dude,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYBdEM7X,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-08-16T21:16:37.053+0000)

After checking I've seen the stun is actually 1.75 seconds, my bad I guess. But still a free 1.75 sec stun every 4 seconds is pretty bullshit. And even without that 9.8 AP ratio, it's still a lot of bullshit burst.

She has to get close to me to burst me right, but I can't even gtet 625 distance close to her before I get a free 1.75 sec stun, which lead to being oneshot because of that total bullshit burst.

Being vulnerable to getting one-shot because you walked within 1000 range of viktor is just as bullshit, but you don't see me whining on the forums about it. By the time you get lv11, your E-R will one-shot an annie that isn't building health/mr, which outranges everything she does.

Why are you getting within 625 range of her? You have a max range of nearly 1000 units. Just because you have one ability that you have to get into AA range for doesn't mean you have to harass with it. Take your Q level 1, harass with it then, and move over to harassing primarily with E once you get some levels. Play the range game, like viktor was meant to.

When you're lv7 with upgraded hexcore, you land one E and now you can zone her, since if you ever land another one she dies instantly from the ult followup. You can easily stay just outside her basic ability range while still being a giant threat and one-shotting minions with your laser. If she tries to walk up and stun you with her Q, she's going to get hit by a laser in the face while you walk away. If she drops her max range ult, you cleanse it and one-shot her with your full combo before she walks into range for the rest of her's. You are playing one of the safest champs in midlane. Be more patient and leverage that advantage.

I do know they have burst, but Viktor requires flawless positioning for his burst to be useful, because his stun doesn't do 600 AoE damage, is shorter, and requires 1.5 secs of standing in the zone to trigger. And he doesn't have any defensive ability either.

Viktor's W is his defensive ability. Use it to zone someone trying to jump you and kill them if they try. Kite back with the movespeed on your Q and force them to walk over the field if they want to kill you - which if you play it right, they won't be able to. Your E isn't always going to hit, but it's a basic ability that doesn't require commitment. If it hits, you pop R and they die. If it doesn't, you wait out the cd. Your entire problem seems to be coming from a lack of patience.

With annie, you can just go on their team, press f then r and you've stunned five people. Oh, and by the way now they are all midlife and you can just go on and press q and w and here's a pentakill.

Annie will rarely stun 5 people unless the enemy team is bad or being funneled through a corridor without vision. Her stun ult is a major gamechanger if she can get a good initiate with it, but that's literally why she's picked; without that initiation capability, she would have no reason to be picked over any other mage. She rarely gets pentas even when she does land a 5-man stun, since R+W isn't going to be enough to one-shot an entire team unless she is ludicrously fed, and even if they all do get hit somehow, her Q is only single target, so she picks one target to die, presses zhonyas, and lets her team clean up afterward. By your logic I could say you just E+R a whole team as viktor and get easy pentas, but you and I both know that doesn't actually happen, right?

Assassin coming for you ? Who gives a shit, you have 50 free armor and MR. And if they dare coming in a 600 range close to you you stun and literally oneshot them. 0 positioning required. 0 aiming required. 0 skill required.

That 50 armor/mr is only at lv18 and isn't going to make a big difference against a full build assassin. Annie beats assassins by bursting them the instant they go in, not by outlasting them. Also, she never uses Q to stun an assassin. It's always W or R (usually R), since Q takes too long and she might die before the projectile hits.

lewd catgirlsAug 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf of the lake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYBdEM7X,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-16T23:15:46.296+0000)

Being vulnerable to getting one-shot because you walked within 1000 range of viktor is just as bullshit, but you don't see me whining on the forums about it. By the time you get lv11, your E-R will one-shot an annie that isn't building health/mr, which outranges everything she does.

Except every Annie in the world will build RoA for some reason, and even when they don't they aren't dumb enough not to build any HP/MR against Viktor, which is why I can't oneshot them, if I go in range for a laser I get flashed + R ZEAZEEAZEAZEAZEAZEZAEAZE in the face without being able to do anything, even when her flash is off cooldown I just can't approach her or even my creeps because she just stands between them and me. And by the time I'm level 11 she has already abused her bullshit ratios and cc to kill me what, around 5 times ?

Why are you getting within 625 range of her? You have a max range of nearly 1000 units. Just because you have one ability that you have to get into AA range for doesn't mean you have to harass with it. Take your Q level 1, harass with it then, and move over to harassing primarily with E once you get some levels. Play the range game, like viktor was meant to.

Exactly what I said above, it's either I get zoned the shit out of me, or I'm getting farmed. And my e has a waaay lower cooldown than her q and w, which have way more range ( my e's longer, but waaay thinnier than Annie's w, and isn't totally instant so it can be dodged ). I can't play the range game against someone with an instant stun up every 4 seconds because she just has free zoning, my laser doesn't do shit to her because I was getting zoned for the whole early game and have no cs thus no damage and still no augment at second back.

When you're lv7 with upgraded hexcore, you land one E and now you can zone her, since if you ever land another one she dies instantly from the ult followup. You can easily stay just outside her basic ability range while still being a giant threat and one-shotting minions with your laser. If she tries to walk up and stun you with her Q, she's going to get hit by a laser in the face while you walk away. If she drops her max range ult, you cleanse it and one-shot her with your full combo before she walks into range for the rest of her's. You are playing one of the safest champs in midlane. Be more patient and leverage that advantage.

When I'm level 7, I do not have the e augment because of this absurd zoning, I can't go close to my creeps without being punished by 400 free damage at level 6. I could farm with laser it's true, but my lazer has something like a 10 secs cd and can't oneshot the wave, because no gold --> no damage.

Viktor's W is his defensive ability. Use it to zone someone trying to jump you and kill them if they try. Kite back with the movespeed on your Q and force them to walk over the field if they want to kill you - which if you play it right, they won't be able to. Your E isn't always going to hit, but it's a basic ability that doesn't require commitment. If it hits, you pop R and they die. If it doesn't, you wait out the cd. Your entire problem seems to be coming from a lack of patience.

They can't walk through the field, right, but they can dash through it, and almost every assassin has a dash or some kind of gap closer, which is why they are played as assassins in the first place. And they won't wait out my e's cd to dash on me and delete me from the game. His w is kinda defensive, but gets useless against assassins who have gap closers as it isn't instant like Annie's stun. And it's not like his passive gives him 50 armor and MR right ? Annie has two defensive abilities, while having the same burst as Viktor. This is bullshit.

That 50 armor/mr is only at lv18 and isn't going to make a big difference against a full build assassin. Annie beats assassins by bursting them the instant they go in, not by outlasting them. Also, she never uses Q to stun an assassin. It's always W or R (usually R), since Q takes too long and she might die before the projectile hits.

I know she never uses q, but her w does have 600 range, and is in a cone, which means by defending yourself you might as well stun a tank and get another free kill for your team.

Leaf of the lakeAug 18, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elesis OP dude,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYBdEM7X,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-18T07:29:19.938+0000)

snip

It sounds to me like you just don't want to learn the matchup. You're getting zoned because you don't know how to abuse your own tools against her, which in turn makes you unable to get farm and end up feeding her kills, which largely exacerbates the problem. Annie is a monster when fed. So is every other mid laner in the game. Instead of bitching about how you can't not feed her, how about figuring out what you need to do so that doesn't happen?

Here's how you play the matchup: Take Q lv1, and trade with her as much as you like. Your Q>>>her Q for trading early, and it'll take her some time to build her stun at lv1. If she's overaggressive and dumb, she should be half-health before you even hit lv2. If she respects your damage, she'll have trouble csing without getting hit and you'll end up outpushing her once you hit lv2, which forces her to use her abilities to farm under turret. During this time, you can abuse her CDs, her lack of stun, and her focus on hitting minions instead of you to land E poke (and Q if she comes into range for it). Time your poke for when she's trying to last hit a minion; this is the easiest way to hit any champion, and can be extremely hard to avoid. You don't have to fight her when she has stun up; just push her into tower and she'll use it up soon enough. Until she gets ult, the absolute shortest possible time between stuns being up is 6 seconds, which is plenty of time to poke or trade with her (and it becomes 8 seconds if she doesn't have E yet). If you play it right, viktor wins the early game against annie. She has to play the lane defensively, because she simply does not have the ability to trade that early. Make sure you get a ward out when you're pushing up, otherwise you'll be more vulnerable to ganks than you should be.

Once she hits 6, she has a bit more versatility and reliability, with a lot more damage. If her jungler hasn't tried already, they will almost definitely try to gank for her now. However, you should easily be able to get enough gold for your first hexcore upgrade before this happens and then come back into lane to make her life hell (as long as you don't fail at farming, in which case go practice in customs or something). At this point, you can farm safely from range, which makes her lv6 zoning threat much less significant. Once you land a laser (or two if she has pots), you now present a zoning threat to her, since landing another could mean death. It is at this point in the game that you have to pick and choose when to Q her, generally just sticking to lasers and playing more defensively; you don't want to trade with her if you can avoid it, since trading with her leaves you open to being killed in her next rotation if she uses flash tibbers, which could come as soon as 8 seconds later. If you do end up trading with her, use pots and play safely until you're no longer vulnerable to dying from her full combo; one or two pots should be plenty. If you can land lasers, you will win the lane outright. If you can't, just stick to farming safely and watch the other lanes. You can push up the wave much more effectively than she can, which lets you roam and make plays happen elsewhere.

MiraweaveAug 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf of the lake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYBdEM7X,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-18T08:54:07.219+0000)

It sounds to me like you just don't want to learn the matchup. You're getting zoned because you don't know how to abuse your own tools against her, which in turn makes you unable to get farm and end up feeding her kills, which largely exacerbates the problem. Annie is a monster when fed. So is every other mid laner in the game. Instead of bitching about how you can't not feed her, how about figuring out what you need to do so that doesn't happen?

Here's how you play the matchup: Take Q lv1, and trade with her as much as you like. Your Q>>>her Q for trading early, and it'll take her some time to build her stun at lv1. If she's overaggressive and dumb, she should be half-health before you even hit lv2. If she respects your damage, she'll have trouble csing without getting hit and you'll end up outpushing her once you hit lv2, which forces her to use her abilities to farm under turret. During this time, you can abuse her CDs, her lack of stun, and her focus on hitting minions instead of you to land E poke (and Q if she comes into range for it). Time your poke for when she's trying to last hit a minion; this is the easiest way to hit any champion, and can be extremely hard to avoid. You don't have to fight her when she has stun up; just push her into tower and she'll use it up soon enough. Until she gets ult, the absolute shortest possible time between stuns being up is 6 seconds, which is plenty of time to poke or trade with her (and it becomes 8 seconds if she doesn't have E yet). If you play it right, viktor wins the early game against annie. She has to play the lane defensively, because she simply does not have the ability to trade that early. Make sure you get a ward out when you're pushing up, otherwise you'll be more vulnerable to ganks than you should be.

Once she hits 6, she has a bit more versatility and reliability, with a lot more damage. If her jungler hasn't tried already, they will almost definitely try to gank for her now. However, you should easily be able to get enough gold for your first hexcore upgrade before this happens and then come back into lane to make her life hell (as long as you don't fail at farming, in which case go practice in customs or something). At this point, you can farm safely from range, which makes her lv6 zoning threat much less significant. Once you land a laser (or two if she has pots), you now present a zoning threat to her, since landing another could mean death. It is at this point in the game that you have to pick and choose when to Q her, generally just sticking to lasers and playing more defensively; you don't want to trade with her if you can avoid it, since trading with her leaves you open to being killed in her next rotation if she uses flash tibbers, which could come as soon as 8 seconds later. If you do end up trading with her, use pots and play safely until you're no longer vulnerable to dying from her full combo; one or two pots should be plenty. If you can land lasers, you will win the lane outright. If you can't, just stick to farming safely and watch the other lanes. You can push up the wave much more effectively than she can, which lets you roam and make plays happen elsewhere.

Wait, is this guy losing as Viktor to Annie?

That's like... one of Viktor's easiest matchups lol.

MLDzXnRRRAug 16, 20152 votes

Annie and Viktor are known for their burst. If they had less dmg, they would be trash. No reason to pick them, if they have the same dmg as Xerath or Lux who can nuke you from the other side of the map. Actually lategame the long range mages are still better (safety )

lewd catgirlsAug 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Annie and Viktor are known for their burst. If they had less dmg, they would be trash. No reason to pick them, if they have the same dmg as Xerath or Lux who can nuke you from the other side of the map. Actually lategame the long range mages are still better (safety )

I do know they have burst, but Viktor requires flawless positioning for his burst to be useful, because his stun doesn't do 600 AoE damage, is shorter, and requires 1.5 secs of standing in the zone to trigger. And he doesn't have any defensive ability either.

With annie, you can just go on their team, press f then r and you've stunned five people. Oh, and by the way now they are all midlife and you can just go on and press q and w and here's a pentakill. Assassin coming for you ? Who gives a shit, you have 50 free armor and MR. And if they dare coming in a 600 range close to you you stun and literally oneshot them. 0 positioning required. 0 aiming required. 0 skill required.

5000000000000000Aug 16, 20151 votes

Built in sunfire? Did you mean thornmail? Because Molten Shield doesn't give her PBAoE damage. Also, 9.8 AP ratio is an exaggeration. To actually get that much damage you have to stay near Tibbers for the entire duration. She has a really great burst with her spell rotation, but Tibbers damage is not a main source of her burst.

Burst and zoning are entirely valid point, however.

lewd catgirlsAug 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Built in sunfire? Did you mean thornmail? Because Molten Shield doesn't give her PBAoE damage. Also, 9.8 AP ratio is an exaggeration. To actually get that much damage you have to stay near Tibbers for the entire duration. She has a really great burst with her spell rotation, but Tibbers damage is not a main source of her burst.

Burst and zoning are entirely valid point, however.

Her Tibbers' DoT is a built-in sunfire if you think about it. A built-in sunfire with as much DoT as a whole team having a sunfire and standing near you.

Goodest GamerAug 16, 20151 votes

"but muh lack of mobility should make up for my ability to insta kill 5 people with my AOE ulti and point and click stun spells that kill anyone late game :(" annie bot is most likely a diamond 5 mid player if not for annie but hey, someones gotta get their wins somehow.

BronzoidAug 16, 20151 votes

She is far too broken for how little skill she takes. Either gut her into Garen tier or introduce some skill requrement.

dr lichdeathAug 16, 20151 votes

play veigar press r

KoldheartedjspAug 18, 20151 votes

what if annie only got charges to her stun if the ability did damage?

or what if E didn't provide a charge?

i think the biggest problem with annie is she gets too many free charges from E (instant, animationless ones too!) and it makes her stun to easy to bring up. Hell her stuns up one charge less than it shows because she can E while the ability is traveling.