I just exited a game where a level 30 gold, a level 22, 23, 26, and 27 faced off against a Diamond 3, a Diamond 4, a Platinum 5, a level 29 and a level 25. How could any competently tuned matchmaking system possibly think that would be a remotely equal or fair match? Attaching screenshot of Lolnexus to demonstrate.
DrCyanide13 votesTeambuilder is one of those ideas that sounds good in theory, but is horrible in execution.
It's advertised as this:
When in reality, it's more like this:
I hate playing Teambuilder, and only do so when Riot basically bribes me to (summoner icons, new SR pvp). As soon as the SR update goes to blind pick, I'm going to turn my back on Teambuilder once again.
I'm currious how many people queue for games using Teambuilder, compared to how many people queue for Dominion, Twisted Treeline and ARAM. My guess is that it's somewhere between Dominion queue and TT most of the time.
RoyaiChaos2 votesTeambuilder was a community suggestion originally, but Riot was hesitant to implement if for the exact reasons you listed.
Junkο5 votesNobody wanted the team builder we have now. People wanted to just pick a role and be queued up for it and then champ select goes as normal. Also i don't think the community wanted a Silver 4 to be queued up in this match
Raptamei1 votesTeambuilder is one of those ideas that sounds good in theory, but is horrible in execution.
It's advertised as this:
- Pick the champion you want
- Pick the lane you want
- Matchmaking goes easier on people trying out new things
When in reality, it's more like this:
- You can't pick the champion your team needs. (change champion after finding a team)
- You can't fill (no sorter line for you)
- The matchmaking is based on people playing exclusively Teambuilder, so while you get treated like a Bronze 5 the first game you play, so does the Diamond 1 who's your lane opponent.
- Longer wait times for games. I've had wait times so long I could have played two blind picks (probably getting the role and champ I wanted) in the time it would take me to play one Teambuilder, and the matchmaking would be better to boot.
Riot said they intentionally didn't implement champion switching because they found that people would accept you and then ask you to change your pick to a better meta pick. What people do instead, of course, is just kick you. Sooo much better.
And yes, Riot has proven unable to make the support role remotely fun, or the adc and jungle roles for that matter because they depend so much on the monkeys on your team. People want to 1v1 and kill each other, I don't see why this is so hard and why Riot wants to force "teamplay" and "support" on a playerbase that by and large doesn't want any of it.
DrCyanide2 votesThere is no "Team" in "Team builder", just a bunch of people who will only do things their way. Part of that's the systems fault, part of it is the people drawn to it.
I've had fun when I fill support, so much so that when I go into a ranked game it's my second choice for lane. The problem is, there is no room for second choices in Team builder. If I could fill in Team Builder, I probably wouldn't be so harsh on the whole thing.
AbodyHUN6661 votesit's very true, I play team builder when I want to try or practice a champ. If you could pick multiple champs it would be a lot better in terms of strategies.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesAnd yes, Riot has proven unable to make the support role remotely fun, or the adc and jungle roles for that matter because they depend so much on the monkeys on your team. People want to 1v1 and kill each other, I don't see why this is so hard and why Riot wants to force "teamplay" and "support" on a playerbase that by and large doesn't want any of it.
You know nothing, Jon Snow. I'm a support main because that's what I find most fun, and I frequently run into other players that also do (Bronze I ranked). One of my friends is a jungler because that's what he finds most fun. League is a team game. If you don't understand or like that, go play ARAM or find someone to face off 1v1 in a custom game.
Omnic Sage6 votesEach format has strengths and weaknesses. Both team-builder (TB) and something like draft both use MMR, logically, and for the purpose of rounding out even matches. The only thing TB lacks in this process is pool size (because the majority avoid the concept) and time (balancing out new MMR's). Each of these concerns are easily rectifiable, i.e. more players and time.
The benefits of draft is a faster queue time and... well... that's the only strictly factual benefit to draft. Other than it reflects professional play more accurately.
The benefits of team-builder is that, if used, reduces trolling, arguing over positions and placing a player in weak/new position. How many times does the lobby open up in draft to have one of these three factors take place? How many times have they alone lost you a game and/or ruined the experience?
How many well written Reddit posts include queue'ing up at certain times to avoid trolling, or arduously attempting to control the lobby chat to maximize team potential by placing them in the right roles to maximize your chances of success? Doesn't TB address all of this?
In either case, those who choose the formats do so because to them the benefits outweigh risks. So far, players seem much more willing to get a decreased queue time at the cost of dis-satisfactory, yet easily rectifiable issues. Those who chosse team-builder want to play champ A, in lane B, and avoid trolls of Ahri support. They want to avoid someone not typing faster enough, or logging in half a second later than someone else who is typing "mid" like a squirrel on crack, insta-locking a mid champ only to end up with two mids?
In the end, pool size is something that can be solved in team-builder, and the MMR analysis isn't weak, it's sound. In the end, you are just making a choice. Do you want longer wait times, and more scrupulous team leaders (looking to actually win and avoid trolls), or do you want 5 random people thrown into a lobby to duke it out in chat?
The choice is yours. So far, I play both. I do avoid TB because of queue times, but when I want to play champ A, in lane B, and avoid trolls, I put in the extra minutes and have yet to be dissatisfied. The only real thing you lose in TB is the professional method of drafting, which in the end nobody does very well imo. When I want to play that level of game, I play ranked, which I also enjoy (but comes with its necessary evils).
That has at least been my experience.
SmokingPuffin2 votesThe benefits of draft is a faster queue time and... well... that's the only strictly factual benefit to draft. Other than it reflects professional play more accurately.
Draft has bans. Draft has counterpicking. Draft is the ranked format. Draft doesn't involve waiting minutes to get a support.
TB lets you play the champ you want, where you want. TB is quite good at letting groups of 2-4 ask for the remaining kinds of players they want. TB lets the captain kick undesired picks.
In general, I use team builder when I'm trying to practice some new champions and I play draft when I want to play "the game".
Omnic Sage1 votesThe benefits of draft is a faster queue time and... well... that's the only strictly factual benefit to draft. Other than it reflects professional play more accurately.
Draft has bans. Draft has counterpicking. Draft is the ranked format. Draft doesn't involve waiting minutes to get a support.
TB lets you play the champ you want, where you want. TB is quite good at letting groups of 2-4 ask for the remaining kinds of players they want. TB lets the captain kick undesired picks.
In general, I use team builder when I'm trying to practice some new champions and I play draft when I want to play "the game".
Hence "it reflects professional play more accurately"...
I do the same, TB to practice champs and draft when I want to play "the game" as well. Just covered the list by stating it is the professional format.
Cheers.
The Queen Viper1 votesJust want to point out, that of course you cannot "fill" and pick what the Team needs. That's a no-brainer. -.-
Because that's the point of Team Builder. You pick the champion you WANT to play and it's up to the Team Leader to gather and make a proper team. If you don't like the setup the Team Leader has organized, then you go and find another group where you think your chosen champ fits better. Simple as that.
There's no reason to have a "blind pick" anymore. It's the most toxic game mode and the most pointless. If I would want to go and "try hard" in normals, I would go Normal Draft... if not, then Team Builder.
Player of Games4 votesTeambuilder matchmaking is bullshit. I get paired constantly against people tiers higher than me and Diamonds way too often. It's pretty unbalanced, and it's mostly due to the fact that TB has it's own MMR which I feel is dumb.
Pinker 104 votesCus noone plays teambuilder cus its gay af
So all the diamonds are in teambuilder placement matches.
Yknow, cus different mmr for different queues.
Yknow, cus logic.
mákku4 votesWell it ultimately comes down to not enough people queueing up for TB. To prevent endless queue times due to lack of players with adequate MMR, matchmaking gets more lenient, which then results in bad matchmaking.
I have to agree, it's a major issue with Teambuilder; In my games I meet people ranging from Bronze to Challenger ('core' range seems to cover the entire distance from Silver to Diamond), which indeed is kinda ridiculous and usually results in matches being completely one-sided stompfests. Close games that could go either way seem to be the exception in TB.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesI would have agreed up until the release of the new Rift on TB. Even playing top marksman (Teemo ftw) I never had to wait longer than 20 seconds to enter a match, but I have never played such a bigger set of troll games. Every game (I played seven) either we steamrolled or they did. There were no close matchups (maybe one).
DaSneakyGit4 votesI haven't seen any game outcome that wasn't any worse than a dozen standard Ranked matches.
Smaller pool of players to pull from means you'll get a couple wonky matches now and then unless of course you'd rather sit in queue for an hour for a "perfect" match.
Get more people to play TB and you'll see "better" matchups.
I still think TB is great, really hope they add Ranked TB someday.
MrSc0tty3 votesNewsflash: TB uses normals MMR, not a separate MMR value for TB.
Most Diamonds/plats play exclusively ranked and use smurfs for their "I wanna chill and play casual" matches. Their normals MMR is this really low.
When there is an event where you hVe to get wins in a certain game mode, the diamond and plats get onto that game mode to get the event rewards. That's why you also see them in featured modes.
Junkο2 votesTB actually has it's entirely new MMR for every champion you play in it. So if you are Bronze 5 and first time playing Zed in TB (despite having 500+ games in ranked) you will have normal MMR and will be matched against a Diamond 1 that also is playing their champ for the first time in TB(despite having 500+ ranked games with it).
AbodyHUN6661 votesTeam builder accounts your normal MMR, your knowledge of the role and your champ.
Pinker 102 votesIt really doesn't It takes into account your knowledge of the role in teambuilder As the majority of gold3+ don't play teambuilder, they all have "no experience" in every role, resulting in adjusted matchmaking matching them far below their mmr. I play plats in normals. I played bronze 3s in the first two tb games with a champ i consistently go 10+/3- on.
It's entirely different mmr.
AbodyHUN6661 votesIn my games my team has mostly gold, silver and platinum borders. More people need to play it so it will have better matchmaking. Fresh 30 people try a new champ in bot games and fail, silver and gold people have the game knowledge not to fail hard on a new champ in pvp.
Pinker 101 votesTell that to a diamond 1 1v1 in mid lane.
Then tell em again when ur 0/8, just in case they didnt hear you the first time lolz.
AbodyHUN6661 votesWhat I tried to say is higher ranked players should get less adjustment when trying new champs.
Pinker 101 votesTo be perfectly honest, they shouldn't get any. TB mmr should be the same as normals, and bronzes should not be fighting diamonds. To have anything else is absurd, pointless, and exactly why no-one plays TB except to get icons.
Drunk Rummate3 votesI love the concept of teambuilder, and i try to use it as frequently as possible. That said, I regularly notice a huge discrepancy between my ability to play and the people I'm playing with. Sometimes I'll feel like I'm playing with a bunch of bronze players, and upon checking... they'll all be bronze. Other times I'll feel like I'm having the worst game ever, and upon checking notice that everyone in my game was diamond. I've even played against challenger ranked players in teambuilder.
I think they need to at least softly relate your ranked MMR to your teambuilder MMR. It definitely shouldn't be exact, because not everyone wants to play as hard as they do in ranked when they play a normal with a new champion, but it should at least affect it a little.
Scottishhound2 votesTB does have issues. no one can deny that. however it is great for those who are not ranked. and have a group of friends they want to play with. for instance i just hit LVL 30 and have been playing TB with at least 2 friends this way we play where we are good and have solo players filling the gaps.
if you want to go through the pick and ban system and to change your character to match the team you have blind pick and draft normals.
while i agree sometimes their are characters that dont fill the gaps well it is both the players job to know what they can do, and the captains job to not accept champions that wont work with the build.
i will also say that the ranking needs to be fixed but i really think that will get fixed if their where more players playing the TB vs blind picks.
DaCush2 votesPeople have one bad match and complain and hold a grudge it's ridiculous. I've literally never had a match like that. Never had a match queue me up with a higher person than Silver and I'm Bronze and use team builder more often than any other mode. Face it, you came here strictly to qq when this match is 1 in a million and you know it.
DrNova2 votesI dont understand what all the QQ is about. I enjoy teambuilder. Its fun, and I can play exactly the champ and role I WANT to play. I personally havent come across any istances of being horrible outranked by the enemy team. Too much complaining in this thread is all.
AbodyHUN6661 votesSometimes people like to search their memory for all the bad and negative experiences and throw them on the forums about some new thing.
VedalkenHeretic1 votesi think its just because of the new map, ive seen all the try hard, zed, yasuo, thresh, tris, and season 1 gold zyras get on to get some easy IP with their ranked teams while enjoying the new map
Junkο1 votesThis is legit
Pudii Pudii1 votesMatch making is wack in any type of normals match. I don't see why riot feels the need to separate ranked MMR from normal MMR. As your ranked MMR rises this should your normal MMR.
Normal games should have no affect on your MMR. Season 4 to me, it felt pointless to play normals to learn new champions because all I would get placed against his diamond players. As a plat 4, I can barely hold my lane against a diamond on my main champions let alone a new one im uncomfortable with.
Sometimes I feel like riot should just purge all rank records and make everyone start at base 0. Their MMR system is so messed up and wacky that I feel that would be the only real option.
AbodyHUN6661 votesNormal games should have no affect on your MMR.
Non ranked player's MMR has to be calculated somehow, lots of people never go ranked, but they are better than most unrankeds. Many ranked players play normals casually, trying new thing, having fun with friends, they don't want to give 100% in every game.
Sometimes I feel like riot should just purge all rank records and make everyone start at base 0. Their MMR system is so messed up and wacky that I feel that would be the only real option.
If they restart the ladder it would cause lots of QQ about ex-challenger players in bronze matches, people would lolking their teammates and dodge if one of them was lower ranked. We would have even more unbalanced matches and paranoia.
FooDang1 votes...on a serious note...no one really plays team builder so they match you with anyone they can find...right now people want to check out team builder for the new rift/icons...eventually the higher skilled players will go back to ranked/normal draft...maybe...
exiledFromBadmen1 votesNo one plays TB because it's god%^+& hard to find a support or an ADC. SIMPLE.
ur moms gimp1 votesAnd they say people rage for no reason, lol.
Jomamallamasama1 votesYeah Teambuilder matchmaking is terrible... My friends and I stopped playing it because we were tired of getting placed against diamonds. My best Teambuilder story has to be the time I was in a match with a challenger jungler (thank god he/she was on my team), we rolled the enemy team so hard it wasn't even funny... granted our challenger jungler did kind of die to wolves on his/her first clear but it was all good in the end.
The Queen Viper1 votesWhen will you people understand, that Team Builder nor Normal games in general don't care about Ranked ratings and MMR?
If you really care about balanced games and peoples Ranked ratings, maybe you are playing the wrong mode? Go play Ranked instead.
Sneaky Badness1 votesI wreck all day solo teambuilder but when I play with my friends I get murdered.
Im not getting any better being matched with new players all day.
