Global Dragon and Baron Counters

MyNaptime··6 votes·975 views

So, the recent patch added global counters for dragons and barons whether a team had vision of the neutral objective or not. The stated purpose for this change was to help teams that may fall behind, so that the winning team could not simply snowball objectives without contention. In my opinion however, this change essentially makes things harder for teams that are behind rather than easier. Here's why:

Previously, sneaking dragons was an alternative path to victory. A team could be behind in kills and have fewer towers, but if they'd grabbed an early dragon or two, they still had pressure on the map. The threat existed that if the other team did not make a concentrated effort to keep presence around the dragon, without knowing exactly when it would spawn, the team which was behind could sneak back into the game via dragon buffs. Junglers like Nunu for instance might give up early farming experience and gold, as well as lane pressure, to sneak a very early dragon and then continue to exert strategic control over that objective. Now however, they cannot do that. Sneaking an early dragon offers no tangible benefit. The jungler loses farming experience and gold, gives no ganking pressure to his lanes, and virtually guarantees that the other team will take the second dragon. This is because both teams will know when the second dragon will spawn, which encourages a teamfight over the objective. One team now has a jungler who is weaker in experience and gold. If the enemy jungler was successfully ganking a lane or two during the time spent securing that objective, then the enemy likely has two or three champions who have advantages over their counterparts. This means that the team who secured the early dragon is at a serious disadvantage in the ensuing teamfight over the second dragon and will likely lose that teamfight.

Likewise, if a team is behind, knowing when the dragon will spawn does not statistically help them. All it does is notify them that they can engage in a fight which they will likely lose, if they'd like to. On the other hand, if a team is ahead, knowing when the dragon will spawn is a definite advantage. They can ensure that the losing team has no alternative paths to victory and always show up for a teamfight which they will likely win.

10 Comments

Senna Is Thicc3 votes

I agree the global epic timers are foolish. If a team can't ward dragon they dont deserve to know its exact timer. Besides that we already (for most part) saw when they got dragon and youd put 10 16 in the chat so everyone knew. This change, in my opinion, only hurts the game

Dr Poro3 votes

Except that you already had a a huge animation and sound effect saying "your enemy just did dragon!" All you had to do was say some text in chat and use the time stamp to get the precise timer on dragon. Just add 6 minutes to the time of the post and you had your timer. This was done in every game afaik. Now you simply don't have to use this little trick anymore. Maybe it will be a huge change for low ELO (silver/gold) but for advanced players it's really not a change. The only change is that you now also get the timers on baron and drake during lategame, when their whole team would be MIA, you didn't get this massive notification. For early drakes however, your laners will be seen by the enemy upon taking dragon. It's exactly the same as before. I guess people just get reminded more often about it now which makes them act differently.

Surr20plz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YKrJpeLe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-07-24T20:27:52.900+0000)

Except that you already had a a huge animation and sound effect saying "your enemy just did dragon!" All you had to do was say some text in chat and use the time stamp to get the precise timer on dragon. Just add 6 minutes to the time of the post and you had your timer. This was done in every game afaik. Now you simply don't have to use this little trick anymore. Maybe it will be a huge change for low ELO (silver/gold) but for advanced players it's really not a change. The only change is that you now also get the timers on baron and drake during lategame, when their whole team would be MIA, you didn't get this massive notification. For early drakes however, your laners will be seen by the enemy upon taking dragon. It's exactly the same as before. I guess people just get reminded more often about it now which makes them act differently.

That ALSO needs to go away. The only indication should be when it the buff appears on the team. That would let them know and if they can time from there fine.

Master Lycan2 votes

As a Warwick main whose first jungle route is: Gromp, Blue, Wolves, Red, Back, DRAGON I can say that this RUINS my day

I had a big argument for this subject but then I realized my big spiel would not have been nice to read. All I'm gonna say is this is a HEAVY NERF to Late-Game Junglers that prioritize objective control as a win condition. IE: Nunu and Warwick In a meta that prioritizes junglers with domineering early game pressure with Tanky late-games IE: Gragas , Sejuani and RekSai This makes Junglers whose only Early game presence is to possibly take an early Dragon COMPLETELY DEFUNCT And it makes Early Dragons Utterly useless

TL;DR Please reconsider the Dragon and Baron Timers. That or Buff Nunu and Warwicks Objective control

Senpanda1 votes

Anything Riot does to ruin a warwick players games is a good change in my book

Dr Poro1 votes

Buff warwick? He's the highest winrate jungler atm.

Zorae421 votes

Sneaking an early dragon offers no tangible benefit.

Except you know, the fact that you got it uncontested and now you have it while they don't. Honestly, it's just the same as before. When you secure an early drag the noise goes off and the enemies can see your team mates get the buff.

They added the timers because people already could tell when it was going to come up when they didn't have vision of It. Now they just let you keep track of it without having to use the match timer to do it.

Aviously1 votes

I think they just want more teamfights and this was a good way to get them :/

Left Hook Larry1 votes

You could easily find the timers before anyways. Maybe in lower elos people wouldn't bother timing the dragons though

MyNaptime1 votes

Sure, previously if you were paying attention you could get a very close estimate... that's not the same as a timer however. It's not as exact, and it's quite possible to forget about your estimate while doing other things if you can't just press 'tab' and be reminded. This change isn't irrelevant, or they wouldn't have bothered. The point simply is that it doesn't benefit a team that is behind, which was the stated purpose of the change.

Secondly, in response to the early dragon issue. Sure you have the 1st dragon buff earlier. The lost experience, gold, and ganking pressure hardly makes up for a 6% bonus which at the early game is almost useless anyway. Especially since they are virtually guaranteed to take the second dragon and get that 6% bonus right back.

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