Why delete twisted treeline :(

wowlukas·Jul 31, 2019·55 votes·12,992 views

i have always liked twisted treeline and have been playing the gamemode i understand that the playerbase is really low but it is really sad that you are gonna delete it. :/

23 Comments

MaskedMadnessJul 31, 201916 votes

the truth is, is that TT is un-popular because of the issues it had such as bots.balance,etc. Because TT isnt popular Riot gives it little attention. then slowly it becomes less and less popular because of the issues. and now since the playerbase is so low they decided they will just outright remove it so that they never have to attempt to balance it. Even in the riot post it says

"However, Treeline has always suffered from low queue sizes, even in times when we added new items, map-specific champion balance, and even the Twisted Treeline redesign waaayy back in 2012"

they seriously expect 7 year old changes to make the gamemode fun 'again'. its clear they had no intention to have TT thrive or even want to touch it because they are lazy and want money.

And that is the sad truth as to why the arguably least toxic gamemode is going away.

EedatJul 31, 20193 votes

Way to completely twist what they said to suit your needs. They are saying that even when they did make an effort to make TT changes that nobody ever played it. Same with dominion. Not that the redesign were the only changes they made. Not that those specific changes should have held up 7 years. That ALL attempts in the past have yielded zero results

Luther King Jr VJul 31, 20197 votes

yeah but there were no major changes since 2012 he didn't twist anything

EedatJul 31, 20191 votes

They've done several passes on TT. They got no bites so they gave up

Luther King Jr VJul 31, 20192 votes

dude i wasn't even there when those passes were made lol i fell in love with the CURRENT one i don't need anything to be changed about it riot doesn't want to keep this mode for people who enjoy it in favor of tft

KüramaAug 1, 20191 votes

List them.

Then let me know if they've done anything like this.

MinardeJul 31, 20196 votes

In this case, the spin was on Riot's end. The attempts that Riot cited were preceded by years of neglect, a fact that Riot conveniently left out.

Twisted Treeline was around when League officially launched in 2009. The new items coincided with the rework in 2012, and the first instance of map-specific champ balancing was in 2013. Prior to that, there were virtually no changes for either TT or Dominion. Even afterwards, there were only minimal changes. Combined with the handful of later updates (e.g. GP, Garen, Bard, Cass?), that's still barely on par with the average SR patch. Even URF had more champ balance changes in one patch than TT had gotten in its entire lifespan.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect those attempt to yield non-zero results. SR players are up in arms if the meta stagnates for half a season. Naturally, patching Treeline once every three years or so wouldn't do much to save the mode.

EedatJul 31, 20192 votes

No, actually. Riot did quite a few sweeps of TT with the last one being the middle of season 5. TT got several big updates, but still nobody played it. Like ever.

The reason URF got a big patch is because people actually play it. Even ARAM got way less attention yet it it vastly more popular. Why is that? Because people enjoy playing ARAM. ARAM survived with multiple champions at 70%+ winrate for YEARS. There were 3 years where Riot outright said that they would not make champion balance changes specific for ARAM period yet its still here.

If you're one of the ones who actually enjoys TT, then sorry for losing it. But it's a dead game mode. It's ALWAYS been a dead game mode. Any effort put into it has yielded no results and at this point Riot is just paying for server space for bots with TT

MinardeJul 31, 20197 votes

My point still holds. Doing a (relatively) large patch does little because it doesn't address TT's underlying perception issue. A significant part of the reason TT was unpopular was due to the persistent lack of Riot attention. Big patches are great, but what about the rest of the time? Why does Riot bother patching SR every two weeks rather than just once per year? TFT's even getting patches every week right now. Variety, meta shakeups, or even just a sense that the developers care is extremely important for maintaining a playerbase.

Furthermore, ARAM is not at all comparable to Treeline's situation. For one thing, ARAM is positioned as a casual experience (Whether or not it's limited to a casual experience is a separate discussion). In contrast, TT provides a competitive experience. The incentive to "abuse" the meta is therefore exceedingly higher, and stagnation is that much more noticeable as a result. Additionally, ARAM's randomness mitigates staleness and champion imbalance. Even with 70%+ winrates and ARAM accounts, there's still champ variety. Certain champs are/were favored, but there's no way to guarantee them, unlike in a Draft mode like TT.

I did like TT, though, unlike with Dominion, I never really mained the mode. It's just extremely frustrating that Riot's once again blaming a game mode for failing despite never truly attempting to help it succeed.

GaminimeAug 5, 20191 votes

I play TT. I only play TT. My friends stopped playing TT a long time ago because the map changed and Vilemaw changed and everything changed for the worse, in their opinion. Those changes were made way before I even started playing LoL, so I didn't know about the old TT, nor have I ever played it. Riot doesn't listen to players at all and this is just one example. The reason their changes didn't get the community to play, is because the changes didn't suit the then current 3v3-player base. It's truly that simple... And now they remove my favourite game mode. I'm quitting League altogether if this goes through. They made a mistake, they made another, and instead of owning up to it and fixing it, they amputate a limb that's perfectly fine. All it needs is some care, not even intensive. But hey, that's too much to ask now that Riot only cares about fanservice that brings them money, instead of some quality gaming.

AeszarckAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In this case, the spin was on Riot's end. The attempts that Riot cited were preceded by years of neglect, a fact that Riot conveniently left out.

Twisted Treeline was around when League officially launched in 2009. The new items coincided with the rework in 2012, and the first instance of map-specific champ balancing was in 2013. Prior to that, there were virtually no changes for either TT or Dominion. Even afterwards, there were only minimal changes. Combined with the handful of later updates (e.g. GP, Garen, Bard, Cass?), that's still barely on par with the average SR patch. Even URF had more champ balance changes in one patch than TT had gotten in its entire lifespan.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect those attempt to yield non-zero results. SR players are up in arms if the meta stagnates for half a season. Naturally, patching Treeline once every three years or so wouldn't do much to save the mode.

I still remember when Riot reworked item 3104 . It was exciting to have a relatively major map-specific change! Almost nothing else has happened since then, and my excitement for the map dwindled.

With minimal map-specific changes over the years and reward systems (Champion Mastery, Missions, Event Passes, and as of now ranked-queue-specific Chromas) favoring other modes, it's unsurprising that Twisted Treeline declined from being "healthy" to its current situation.

Thanks for all your posts on the map Minarde. I haven't been active at all lately (college), but I see you have been keeping the map in the public eye. I know your favorite was Dominion, and though I hardly played it, I can now truly empathize with you. ######I also want to take back that badly uninformed post that I made when Dominion was retired. Sorry.

Sona PingJul 31, 20194 votes

An occasional patch of change here and there is not going to make an impact on players through the pervasive pattern of neglect and certainly not from "efforts" like a mere changing of spawn times or item removals.

When a player does decide to give Twisted Treeline a chance for some games and as many of us have, they get back-to-back matches filled with 5 exp. bots, it is not surprising that there would be zero results.

Karn BishopAug 1, 20191 votes

Your straight up wrong, besides none of those "changes" were directed at fixing issues the mode had they just enhanced the issues further, its like loading a handgun giving it to a child and saying its a toy gun now go shoot your brother/aunt/uncle ect ect. The changes were not made to improve the mode but to further destabilize it.

Sewer SideJul 31, 20191 votes

TT’s issues are fundamental.

The gamemode has been dead since I started playing in 2011. The old map was just as much as a meme, and even 2010-11 champion designs made old TT’s walls redundant.

The 2012 update gave it a breath of life, but really should’ve been deleted before Dominion.

HawtJul 31, 20198 votes

TT and Dominion could come back in a rotating game mode. That's assuming riot implements a rotating game mode, which could include past event game modes. This the only way I see TT coming back from time to time.

HorseProofBaconJul 31, 20194 votes

{quoted}

TT and Dominion could come back in a rotating game mode. That's assuming riot implements a rotating game mode, which could include past event game modes. This the only way I see TT coming back from time to time.

Not likely, as dominion never returned since they deleted it years ago. Once it's gone, it's gone for good.

Exin0Aug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

TT and Dominion could come back in a rotating game mode. That's assuming riot implements a rotating game mode, which could include past event game modes. This the only way I see TT coming back from time to time.

I understand why do you want dominon back but how do you want balance it? Wasnt balance issue why they take dominion down? That mode need complete separate balancing to not be clown fiesta.

GeminiRuneJul 31, 20194 votes

I get the reasoning behind it they provided but frankly that's skirting around the solutions they for years! The dev comments really go in hard on that matter.

But like Hawt said, maybe it could be a rotating queue through Hexakill:TT. But then you have to realize: how attentive has the RQ been this year?!

HubeartheGrizzlyJul 31, 20193 votes

Wish they could just send the map to some game editors to mess around with on a playground to fix it. I will miss TT

JRobin31Aug 1, 20192 votes

Why I think I don't play TT:

too many different items from SR
too much TT map specific champion balance
TT map redesign

Why RIOT thinks I don't play TT:

low queue sizes... a. long queue times; b. poor match-making; c. unsatisfying PvP experience lol what?

Why I really don't play TT: SR exists.

hRnrBbWoTrJul 31, 20191 votes

The gamemode barely exists. It's literally just bots. There are no people, the map is way too tiny for a jungle it's mostly outdated but the ONLY reason riot is removing it.

Pro players don't like it.