Can anyone explain to me why I should care who I pick in the ADC Marksman role?

NakedGhost·Jan 13, 2017·3 votes·1,629 views

Hello, I have been having problems recently regarding the ADC role, which I love to play as my team revolves around my success and am in a commanding position due to the strength of the role. My problem is, sometimes I get flamed for picking a specific champion but my argument is that champions (not just ADC) are similar by-products of each other so in my mind as long as the champ's function compliments the team, it doesn't matter who I pick. Allow me to explain:

- Ashe / Draven / Ezreal / Jinx: linear global skillshots that do damage and auto attacks inflict slow - Miss Fortune / Lucian: AoE barrage Ultimate **- Graves / Tristana / Vayne: ** Dash and knockback projectile **- Quinn / Sivir / Vayne: ** consecutive auto attacks that give buff, also has dash or burst of MS - Caitlyn / Jihn: long range snipe and trap abilities - Teemo / Twitch: Invisibility and DOT auto attacks - Corki / Varus: AoE slow and hybrid of Attack and Ability Damage

Hopefully you know what I mean, I don't understand why I get flamed when many of the popular meta ADCs are similar to others and what their function pertains to. Please give me clarity on this issue as I hate being told by kids how to play the game when I'm years ahead of them already.

Thanks, Naked

48 Comments

Mysticman89Jan 13, 20173 votes

If you're at an elo where those champions are functionally the same to you, then sure, theres probably no reason to pick one over another.

They are not functionally the same however, which is why those in higher elos might tend to some more than others. More than just the numerical tunings, particular combinations of utility/damage/mobility are going to be more ideal in some metas than others, and that's usually why specific adcs end up being popular in a meta.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

Anything that isn't past Diamond is scrub country so anything goes in that regard until you hit Diamond I've been told by my friends :p

JackMcSnipeyzJan 20, 20172 votes

There are many small details to ADC that go into thinking and picking your champ. Your botlane matchup, your team comp, your support, the enemy team's comp. Its things you learn with experience over time, but there is almost never a reason to flame you for your pick, in the end, anything can work if you're experienced enough, no one here is playing on a level where "team comp>personal skill with your champ"

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

This is exactly my point and reasoning! There shouldn't be a definitive way to approach choosing a champion, it should be affected by many factors and not simply the most favourable one from a common standpoint.

An example is Corki is my most comfortable in ADC but he doesn't get much love so I sometimes get flamed for choosing him but the team always shut up when we are winning or win. It's just based on the notion that everyone is at the same skill level every match (which is not the case) and it's purely based on the champ's kit and how it compliements the team.

My argument is, players up at least up to Diamond (as in, once you hit Diamond, picks DO matter) shouldn't be too fussed about who to pick in regards to comps because with my text in OP there are similarities to champs that fulfil the same function based on their design but players hit 'auto-cry' when the champ you've chose isn't the one they wanted you to pick regardless how similar they are to the more 'meta' and 'best' champs etc.

Had Lucians WifeJan 13, 20171 votes

If you're year ahead of them, then i assume you know what the mute button is. As long as you're playing what fits the role and doing well, why should you care?

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

But do you agree with what I have laid out in regards to the champs being similar? They are essentially the same and I get titled when kids flame me for stuff they refuse to acknowledge and that I must pick someone specific because the pros only choose:

Caitlyn
Kog'Maw
Lucian
Vayne

Had Lucians WifeJan 13, 20171 votes

Yes i do, that's why i said just mute them

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

No because I'm not an immature waste of atoms that just mutes people if they say something negative towards me.

Muting people immediately puts me at a handicap aswell, why the hell would I do that it's so counter-intuitive.

Had Lucians WifeJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No because I'm not an immature waste of atoms that just mutes people if they say something negative towards me.

Muting people immediately puts me at a handicap aswell, why the hell would I do that it's so counter-intuitive.

Then why are you getting tilted by it in the first place

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

I get tilted but that doesn't mean it affects my performance. The whole concept and trying to understand these players is what ultimately triggers me that they don't understand that all LoL champs are essentially the same and are not unique in any aspect or are considered niche picks. There are actually 5 roles and only 4 champs in each are considered the go to ones because they're the strongest for the next 2 weeks before it refreshes for new champs again to take over the meta.

Pandemic PunchJan 13, 20173 votes

To be fair, I mute everyone at the beginning of every game and went from Silver 4 to Gold 5 in no time playing support only with no duo. 0_0

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

yeah because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who you pick but it's down to your mechanical skill which trumps everything! :)

Pandemic PunchJan 13, 20172 votes

Muh mechanics are garbage tho.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

what I'm saying is, e.g. say you're a Gold player on average but when you choose your favourite support, your gameplay is elevates to Platinum because you're good with that hero mechanically hence: it doesn't matter who you pick as long as you yourself are good :)

BubbleButterzJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No because I'm not an immature waste of atoms that just mutes people if they say something negative towards me.

Muting people immediately puts me at a handicap aswell, why the hell would I do that it's so counter-intuitive.

You say you're not immature, and then follow that with calling people "waste of atoms". To me, that's immaturity. The mature thing to do when flamers are bothering you is to use the mute function. It isn't something pety and isn't looked down upon as being immature, it's being mature enough to just ignore whatever anyone says.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You say you're not immature, and then follow that with calling people "waste of atoms". To me, that's immaturity. The mature thing to do when flamers are bothering you is to use the mute function. It isn't something pety and isn't looked down upon as being immature, it's being mature enough to just ignore whatever anyone says.

I was just trying to be funny with that one :P seriously though I think being mature means you can listen to the important stuff your teammates say and just block out the naff they hit out with like: what champions I NEED to play (need being keyword here) :/

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

lmao, noob kids coming to downvote my thread wow just proving my point!

Pandemic PunchJan 13, 20171 votes

I am not going to say that the people flaming you are correct. However, some champions are meta for a reason. It would be good to know what elo you are in.

-If your play style is dominating lane, then Jhin, Caitlyn, and Varus are optimal. This play style is only recommended if you know wtf to do with a lead.

-If your play style is to CS and go even in lane then Twitch, Vayne, and Jinx are optimal.

Obviously at lower elo, anything can work. Even Urgot. But if you are struggling in a lower elo then I recommend hyper carries like Twitch and Jinx.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

They're meta because Riot need an influx of money on a regular basis, nerfing and buffing champs every patch ensures this, I have everyone at the moment on my main acc so it doesn't bother me anyway.

I'm a modest Gold II, last season I was Plat IV but had a bad run :[

With what you said about playstyles, I pick depending on team so it's actually handy that champions are similar to each other because it gives me the option to either pick very strong champs in said patch or be unconventional and choose champ that isn't meta but said champ is similar to champ that is meta.

If you recommend Varus then that automatically means I can play Corki, or if Twitch is good I can play Teemo aswell!

Pandemic PunchJan 13, 20171 votes

Ahhhhh! Then yeah, you are still in an elo where anything can work. I have personally seen this to be true up to at least D5. So, the people flaming you are wrong.

AND NO TO TEEMO!! HE DOESN'T WORK JUST BECAUSE HE IS A LITTLE RAT LIKE TWITCH! ;-)

I do think Corki is very good though. You just have to make sure your team has some DPS since Corki is not a late game hyper carry (A condition you probably already considered). Especially at those elos. ADC is (IMO) the hardest role to carry from right now. So you want to make sure you have enough DPS to delete people to pick up the slack of teammates who are doing bad. You already know you are not going to get any peel so you have to output as much damage as possible to multiple enemies before you explode. I don't think anyone does this better than Twitch. (I say this assuming the person playing ADC is not gifted mechanically or has poor positioning)

In Gold and Plat, people still have no idea how to close out games. The team with the highest AOE damage pretty much wins since people still just kind of throw themselves at each other for no reason. They just want to fight all of the time. This makes late game team fights the ultimate decider of the game more often than not.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tarics Gemstones,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE3n4YEE,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-01-13T13:23:09.732+0000)

Ahhhhh! Then yeah, you are still in an elo where anything can work. I have personally seen this to be true up to at least D5. So, the people flaming you are wrong.

AND NO TO TEEMO!! HE DOESN'T WORK JUST BECAUSE HE IS A LITTLE RAT LIKE TWITCH! ;-)

I do think Corki is very good though. You just have to make sure your team has some DPS since Corki is not a late game hyper carry (A condition you probably already considered). Especially at those elos. ADC is (IMO) the hardest role to carry from right now. So you want to make sure you have enough DPS to delete people to pick up the slack of teammates who are doing bad. You already know you are not going to get any peel so you have to output as much damage as possible to multiple enemies before you explode. I don't think anyone does this better than Twitch. (I say this assuming the person playing ADC is not gifted mechanically or has poor positioning)

In Gold and Plat, people still have no idea how to close out games. The team with the highest AOE damage pretty much wins since people still just kind of throw themselves at each other for no reason. They just want to fight all of the time. This makes late game team fights the ultimate decider of the game more often than not.

Corki is so underrated in my tier! Players see him as fodder when really he chases the fodder lol

That's what I say to myself most of the time in this tier, picks don't really matter as long as I execute mechanically I'll be fine :P

Handy Sandy Jan 13, 20171 votes

Well, don't those ADCs have a different approach to doing what they do? Varus is immobile, while Corki isn't. But Varus has more range. Lucian's ult isn't really AOE, Lucian can also move while using it but mf's is larger and way more useful in a teamfight.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, don't those ADCs have a different approach to doing what they do? Varus is immobile, while Corki isn't. But Varus has more range. Lucian's ult isn't really AOE, Lucian can also move while using it but mf's is larger and way more useful in a teamfight.

Yes but I'm just solidifying my point that most champs are similar and people shouldn't get their pants in a twist because ints unconventional to say: pick Teemo in the bot lane and be ADC in Gold tier :p

TrenitaliyahJan 13, 20171 votes

Mute them all (and don't write anything, just use pings), trust me it's going to change your games.

I feel in this new meta where adcs are suffering the most, some of them can be really good choices over the ones that can easily be eliminated:

a toplaner build over the adc one can be useful with sustain and can make her last longer in a teamfight, also the W is crucial and helpful.
the invisibility can save you multiple times
sad to be said, this could be the solution, with his ultimate to ward around everything, to the adcs problems right now.

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Mute them all (and don't write anything, just use pings), trust me it's going to change your games.

I feel in this new meta where adcs are suffering the most, some of them can be really good choices over the ones that can easily be eliminated:

a toplaner build over the adc one can be useful with sustain and can make her last longer in a teamfight, also the W is crucial and helpful.

the invisibility can save you multiple times

sad to be said, this could be the solution, with his ultimate to ward around everything, to the adcs problems right now.

I don't see how it could change my games, I'm intentionally muting my team but what if they have something relevant and important to say? Even if they are crying every 2 minutes about the champ I chose but then they shut up when we're winning, which insinuates to me that they have muted me for whatever reason :/

EDIT : I'll try the top lane build for Quinn that seems interesting.

I love Twitch :p

I'm cursed in Gold and the occasional time I pick Teemo ADC sometimes a player dodges in my team lol

TrenitaliyahJan 13, 20171 votes

For sure, anyone who trolls, flames, and have a bad attitude towards the game will have never anything important or crucial to say about the game. And most of the important things to say can be pinged.

I personally wouldn't use Teemo , but who am I to say anything about LoL? Maybe someone really experienced with him can turn up the match to victory. Any reports are after games, not pre-game :D

NakedGhostJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

For sure, anyone who trolls, flames, and have a bad attitude towards the game will have never anything important or crucial to say about the game. And most of the important things to say can be pinged.

I personally wouldn't use , but who am I to say anything about LoL? Maybe someone really experienced with him can turn up the match to victory. Any reports are after games, not pre-game :D

They do that because they are led to believe whatever notion they have about champ composition in their heads is ultimately right and everyone else is wrong. I honestly think these players just spam the same champ and have never delved into any other ones. Almost like a basement dweller leaving the house for the first time :p

Teemo is just Teemo :p #Teemothings

KiharonJan 13, 20171 votes

Your group comparisons seem simplistic at best to outright wrong at worst.

Ashe / Draven / Ezreal / Jinx

Of this group, only Ashe applies a slow with her basic attack. The ultimates are also not as similar as you make them out to be. Ashe ult is most useful for its stun component, Jinx ult has an execute component, Draven ult makes a return trip slightly after the first target hit, and Ezreal ult is the only one that continues after the first champion hit.

In the more general compairson, Ashe is more utility (vision on E and picks with R), Draven snowballs the best (passive) and has high burst and trades (Q), Ezreal is the most mobile, Jinx has the most AoE (of this group) with her autos.

*Miss Fortune / Lucian *

Lucian's ult is a barrage, but in fact, is not an AoE. Each bullet can only hit a single target. While he can hit multiple people throughout the ultimate, the total damage done by the ultimate does not increase by hitting multiple people. By contrast, each wave of MF ultimate can hit multiple people, so the total damage done by the ultimate increases the more people she hits.

In the more general comparison, Lucian has more mobility with his dash.

Basically, I would encourage you to focus not on how the champions are the same, but how they are different. All the differences may not be significant in all cases, but they can definitely add up to a notably different play experience once you start noticing and playing around the small differences.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

Yes there are differences amongst my examples but it doesn't deter the fact that they have the same properties and design principle in mind:

_Ashe / Drave / Ezreal / Jinx = Global Projectile (despite the difference each have) _ Miss Fortune / Lucian = Barrage in front of champ (despite one being AoE with no mobility and the other being mobile but not AoE)

My go to champ in the lane is Corki despite the meta anyway because he can do almost anything be it sniping, diving, mobility, attack or ability damage or hybrid builds etc.

GehcoJan 14, 20171 votes

So is Quinn now a bot lane adc? When did that happen?

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

She's a marksman, therefore she goes to the lane where the marksman goes. Everytime a noob Quinn goes top someone chooses Vlad so no she's always been bot adc to me because everyone I've seen her play somewhere else gets stomped horribly.

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

your view on how ADCs work, sans some minor details, is absolutely correct. Not the only way to look at things but a reasonable one.

I have not encountered any kind of flaming people for picking ADCs. The only person who i've seen admonishing allies for this or that ADC is me, and I do it when I want to play bard with a damage-heavy team and my ADC wants to go for a "peel me protect me" champion.

Therefore I discount your interpretation of the circumstances leading to you getting flamed. I believe there is another factor that is contributing that is not revealed in your post.

For instance, you picking **Specifically ** Teemo. Maybe you are not being flamed for picking Ashe or Ezreal, but rather for picking Teemo.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

thank you
you're lucky then, to be honest I made this post out of frustration after it happened to me twice in the same day, I don't know maybe the odds of that happening were very low but still it tilted me hard because in my scrub tier it really doesn't matter who you go as long as the mechanics are on point!
Why? Again, in my scrub tier Gold-Plat, anything can go as long as you execute your mechanics properly. What's wrong with Teemo? he's so meta right now it's not even funny, RIOT are at fault though for poor balancing

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

I still think there is something you are not seeing, that causes the flaming.

the merits and downfalls of teemo i think are outside what this discussion is about. The bottom line is this: people do not like teemo. some, for good reasons, others for bad ones. it's even a part of this game's culture to don't like him

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

Maybe it's ignorance on their part

Teemo is a good champ because he's detested amongst community. picking him causes a psychological blow harder than any other champs, essentially giving you an advantage over the enemy, except maybe Yasuo until nerfs come lol

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

ok you are forcing my hand. Bare in mind that this is all the hyperbole ramblings of a scrub.

Teemo is, like you said, an ADC. This means that if he gets hit by a long range catch skill, or if someone with big burst damage jumps on him or if he gets in range of support malzahar he's just dead.

in his lane he gets by through a combination of zone control and just being obnoxious but in teamfights its basically "fuck my life and fuck support malzahar" if he tries anything. Which means teemo has to wait until someone else on either team does something good (or fucks up royally).

Usually a top laner provides for the team either an aggressive champion that can jump into the enemy team and either catch someone or kill someone (someone who can pick a fight) or someone who can peel for the damage section of the team or a second line fighter who has the mobility to follow up an engage on a focus target.

Teemo provides non of those things (he is a backliner who needs the enemy to be CCed in team fights or for their skills to be depleted on someone else) so the normal team with teemo has less "engage" and less "disengage" than the other team. I.E. less ability to make things happen in their favor in the game.

Now the jungler and mid can respond by going heavy on the utility. But they want to play damage champions like everybody else so they either wont, and take whatever disadvantage for the team this lack of balance causes, or will and resent the top laner for "forcing them to pick a tank".

TL;DR They want you to pick a tank. Or at least someone who can tank. Teemo is not a tank. They hate you for it. Pick poppy and maokai 24/7 instead to gain mad approval and adoration.

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

yes i know this is about top lane teemo. nobody has even seen a bot lane teemo outside the context of trolling. how can i generalize about something i see 5 times in my entire lol career ?

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

I've seen a botlane Teemo that supports by hitting the enemy ADC with miss chance which although unconventional is pretty damn funny when it works if they have a very passive support lol.

Still, I know where you're coming from, these things you are talking about won't pertain to anyone that hasn't reached Diamond, because picks essentially don't really matter up to then i.e. Bronze > Platinum = anything champ in the stipulated position goes (as in I don't mean stuff very stupid and out of ordinary like, Rengar safe lane that's just dumb lol)

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

There's a bunch of ways to win games. I'm less mechanically capable than other players so I get wins through team synergy / antergy. You say that this is less relevant in low elo and that is not correct in the least bit.

In reality what happens in low elo is that there are the mechanically dominant players (I outplay you and win lane) and the macro dominant players (I know where to push and when and how to steal your jungle) and the synergistic players (this champion with this champion makes a combo) and they each can squeeze wins in different ways and sometimes the synergistic player wins and other times the mechanical player just outplays the shit out of him and wins instead.

In high elo you have to do everything better so the mecahical player has to play better but he also has to make better picks and know his way around the map. And because everybody is mechanically good you can't just "me riven god" the other guy" you have to use everything. So you get the idea that this only works in high elo but in reality what differentiates high elo from low is that everybody has to be synergistic and everybody has to play the map and everybody has to play mechanically well because the range of nonpunishable errors in each field is very small.

Whereas in low elo being a mechanically poor player like myself is something I can offset by having good team synergy. It's just not something that is readily apparent because (a) the other guys are using different strategies to win or play the "the rest of the team adapts to my pick because im carry herpderp" card and (b) the guy who does the mechanical outplays is more flashy and apparent than the other, less obvious, less easily identifiable in distinct things done in the game.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

Yes exactly, in the lower tiers your champ pick won't matter if your mechanics and macro is on point regardless of synergy. If players don't know how to approach the map during game then they will be more reliant on their champ pick and synergy with other champs to win etc.

The high level players have all these qualities to boot which sets them apart from the rest of us down here in toxic bay, elo hell, scrub country, USA as of today lmao, etc.

AptestJan 20, 20171 votes

yes but you can also phrase this in exactly the other way around:

in the lower tiers your mechanics won't matter if your champion pick and macro is on point regardless of the outplay potential of your champion, etc.

USA as of today lmao

i was gonna answer that but i think the moderators are reading our posts. Better put on my tinfoil hat.

NakedGhostJan 23, 20171 votes

true true, I guess we can agree that great players have all the qualities mentioned instead of a few or 1 of them. that's what sets them apart.

oh crap, I need my tinhat too!

AptestJan 23, 20171 votes

the most common error people make when thinking about skill is not realizing how broad the thing is, or thinking that this or that thing (that they hate to do) doesn't count as part of their skill.

In the ol' days of pre-league-system visible ELO, I saw distinct and measurable influence in things as minute as the location and timing of my lane wards.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

TL;DR LOL jokes :p

yes, you need to be against a very passive safe lane duo for it to work. But even then if you just play good and get a banshee's as Teemo against a Malzahaar you'll be fine! It's the most unconventional comps and builds If found that give me the most success in this game to be honest.

RequiemsfireJan 20, 20171 votes

The problem here is you're easily oversimplifying and basing your entire observation on the advantages ADCs have over one another by simply observing one ability.

NakedGhostJan 20, 20171 votes

I'll agree that what you said doesn't pertain to my example of Ashe, Draven, Ezreal and Jinx because they are similar for the ultimate but not really similar in full design because Ashe's niche is she can kite champs with frost arrows and the other 3 can't, Draven gets a burst of speed when the others don't, Ezreal has a blink when the others don't, Jinx has 2 forms when the others don't etc.

But the other examples in my OP pertain to more than 1 skill for each champ, essentially being 50% of the champ's kits being similar to one another, that I will not concede.

RequiemsfireJan 20, 20171 votes

Well let's go over a few, Ashe, her frost shot slows targets, hawk shot grants vision and her ult turns out to be one of the best initiating abilities in the game due to the sheer range she can initiate from where the stun increases as the arrow travels going up to 3 seconds.

Lucian, the only 'AOE barrrage' like ability but to label him as an 'AOE Barrage' champion sounds like ignoring the rest of his kit where his ult is actually one of his weaker abilities. He's a powerful skirmisher who can duck in and out of fights really quickly with relentless pursuit which resets when he hits a champion with his passive and gains an MS boost on targets marked with his W.

Ezreal is all about his ability to kite, his damage is much lower than most ADC's simply but the trade off is how effectively safe he is as a back line component which is the reason you pick him.

Sivir has safety in her kit due to her spellshield blocking CC, her W and Q grant her tremendous wave clear where once she has a BF sword she becomes a full fledged lane bully and her R is a team wide movement speed attack speed steroid which creates a fantastic engage or disengage for the team.

I could go over the rest but nyeh.

NakedGhostJan 23, 20171 votes

Okay, now you're just blatantly over-complicating things now. They feel the same as each other regardless of the few abilities that may differ to one another in how they are executed.