The problem with draven and what needs to get nerfed

OptimisticPerson·Jun 13, 2017·76 votes·17,215 views

Draven Counter Picks, Builds & Stats | Patch 7.11 Only

Dravens winrate has now increased to 60% " Draven's are earning a win rate of 60.22% with the average rank of these top players being in Diamond II. "

Draven right now is too strong and has a 50% banrate right now on the NA server, I believe the reasoning for this is because of the deathdance buff and the fact that draven players now doesnt have to be skilled at all to survive and deal damage before they die. I think the problem with draven is that vampiric scepter makes him have no counterplay in lane becacuse lifesteal works on his Q, so i think either nerfing that or making deathdance maybe 15% for range 30% for melee would be a better choice.

102 Comments

Jazzistic AxemanJun 13, 201758 votes

Draven was a champ that was 100% skill dependant, the better you were the stronger you were, the worse you were the weaker you were, now you can just buy death dance and play how ever you want, that damage reduction is just broken, you dont need to be good to play draven now, you just need to be able to click BUY when selecting death dance.

LooknookJun 14, 20173 votes

There isn't any damage reduction on deaths dance...

The Stabby TabbyJun 14, 20178 votes

Delaying a third of all damage is pretty much damage reduction.

So while you're technically correct, it can be perceived as temporary damage reduction.

AbsoluteZroweJun 13, 201745 votes

the DD 15% for range and 30% for meelee seems like a pretty good idea

JoxcabJun 13, 201712 votes

Or just revert the buffs altogether because it's arguably broken on melees too and making them too strong.

junglerboy16Jun 13, 20174 votes

It's making a lot of melee's who were struggling do ok too, which is part of the issue. As an item concept it is very well designed for the champion niche it should cater to (drain tanks, e.g. Aatrox), but the issue is that it's stat line is too general for it to remain balanced. As long as it has high AD, higher than average sustain, and the passive, it'll be too good.

I think an easy fix is to knock down the price but slash the sustain (maybe some damage too), making it more of a niche item. That way it's reliant on you either investing heavily into lifesteal/vamp or having that naturally. The former sets back non traditional users (like ADCs and skirmishers who want high damage), and the latter plays to the strengths of it's intended audience, leaving them comparatively unscathed by the nerfs.

Blackstone01Jun 13, 20172 votes

I don't really see the melees building it being particularly broken, it's like black cleaver where it wasn't melees who made the item a problem, it was the ranged champions, and unlike how they nerfed black cleaver, this needs a range specific nerf. If it's still a problem then have that nerf be for everybody, but until then riot should look for a range nerf first.

TwinkieProJun 14, 20176 votes

Tryndamere item 3812 item 3046

So much fun to be cancer.

Blackstone01Jun 14, 20177 votes

That's not a death's dance issue, that's an outdated kit issue.

IfosaryJun 13, 201717 votes

just nerf DD dont touch draven directly he was fine before the DD change

MajorDangerJun 13, 20177 votes

{quoted}

just nerf DD dont touch draven directly he was fine before the DD change

Not only do I agree that Death's Dance is the reason Draven is so strong right now, but if you look at previous patch statistics (I use champion.gg):

Draven's Win Rate % By Patch

|Win Rate -------------------------|Patch| |- |50.68%| 7.7| |51.38%| 7.8| |52.88%| 7.9| |52.96%| 7.10| |53.63%| 7.11|

That's roughly a 3% increase in win-rate from patch 7.7 to 7.11 , setting Draven as the 2nd highest win-rate ADC (behind Twitch) during the patch(es) where Death's Dance was buffed... and therefore nerf the item - not the champion!

TeslynJun 13, 20173 votes

almost as if they let Tyler1 back into league... and he single handily raised Dravens win ratio by 3%

VenatrîxJun 13, 20179 votes

Melees like Riven or Fiora profits from this item way too well. Riven is one of the highest skill ceiling champions, yet she has highest pickrate on toplane and still over 52% wr? And why? Because DD is a core item on her now. Buffing DD was unnecessary, it was always a situational anti-burst item on these champions, the buff didn't bring new users just made it a broken core item on these champs. I think it was already a very good item before the buff, the bonus AD would have been enough, 30% bleed is waaay too much.

StandgroundingJun 13, 20174 votes

agreed revert DD

Shifue DravenJun 13, 20178 votes

Yeah i love draven but with that said. He is extremely oppressive and broke now i know i ban him like crazy in every game now cause i am not dealing with him.Deaths dance really broke him

OptimisticPersonJun 13, 201718 votes

He wasnt broken before the DD buff, and i dont know why youre commenting only to say he is now "extremelæy opressive and broken" like i didnt specify that in my post?

nice tableJun 13, 20175 votes

draven was really good before the DD buff, could easily argue that he was broken to be perfectly honest.

RebellìonJun 13, 20171 votes

well, can u elaborate on that? cause his stats before the dd change were not very similar tbqh

nice tableJun 13, 20174 votes

he was sitting at around 52% win ratio i think and the ga changes also obviously buffed him after that.

JøshJun 13, 20171 votes

Ye but that doesnt mean he is broken. People have to put alot of time into playing draven to get good. The good players bring up his win rate because they know how to carry with him, and they deserve to win with such a mechanical champion

JaxMoonStealerJun 13, 20172 votes

This could also apply to Lee Sin and Yasuo (not saying they're broken, but just giving an example that the boards usually complain about). Harder to master champions should not have a better chance at winning, this is not a fighting game.

I think the main problem with Draven outside of Death Dance is his passive. Get kills? You snowball faster than any other champion. Don't get any? Well, you don't have much utility unlike other ADCs so you won't be very useful.

dankkkkkkJun 15, 20173 votes

Harder to master champions SHOULD have a better chance at winning. People like Draven and Lee Sin, with almost infinite skill caps, should have an easier time winning with more games put in on them. Someone with 1000 games with Lee Sin should have a better time than someone with 1000 games on Yi. The mechanics of one champion are MUCH harder to master. Finally, if they didn't, they would be completely out of meta. I would be first timing easier champions to much higher success than putting in time on my favorite champs.

ThatHaleStateJun 13, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE FF MACHINE,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YBAlPYq5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T10:57:15.285+0000)

He wasnt broken before the DD buff, and i dont know why youre commenting only to say he is now "extremelæy opressive and broken" like i didnt specify that in my post?

Sounds like he is just backing up what you are saying lol, no reason to be a dick

ThilmerJun 14, 20176 votes

item 3812 delays damage and gives lifesteal, causing basically damage reduction.

Notice how an AD champion with this ítem and some attack speed is more dificult to kill than a tank. It has no sense.

NeoaugustusJun 13, 20175 votes

draven doesn't need a nerf, its the broken item deaths dance

Samsung1215Jun 13, 20174 votes

Dravens winrate only spikes that high on "average at Diamond 2", which most likely means they are draven otps or have mastered the champion. The meta luckily rolled in his favor which is causing a recent rise in his popularity and win rate. Was he op the patch before? 5 patches ago? Even 10? No. No one said anything, and no one ever banned him. It's just the fact that DD is overtuned as an item and Draven is the only adc that can utilize it. The meta is also extremely in his favor atm, once tanks come back or assassins come in he will struggle.

TLDR: Draven has not been touched in a very long time, only recently does he have a decent winrate is because the meta fits him and DD is broken. If they nerf the champion, I'm scared he will become unplayable.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 14, 20174 votes

Yup completely ignore the Q buff he received a few patches ago.

KoKobotoJun 13, 20174 votes

The thing with Draven is that at first he takes skill but once you get ahead where is the skill when you just one shot everything. It's even worse now with Death's Dance

DRAGOON BurstJun 13, 20174 votes

Only Riot knows why Riot would buff DD up to 30% damage reduction. 15% was fine.

ThilmerJun 13, 20174 votes

The AD itemization is so overpowered and has so many things rigth now that it causes a balance nigthmare by itself.

You can get 300 AD + Defensive stats and defensive passives. That is unbalanced by definition.

Half the adcs in the game rigth now have the damage of a glasscanon and the resistance of an off-tank. We should start talking about "ironcannons" or "glasstanks".

RexxieeJun 13, 20174 votes

Draven is OP even without DD.

TóxicoChicoGuapoJun 13, 20174 votes

i personally feel the changes to make him scale worse but stronger early were a terrible idea.

they wanted him to be more accessible to players who didn't invest hundreds of games in him, but draven is such a skill reliant champ that if he's ever brainless to play then he's dominant.

awhile back they changed his axes to do less %total attack damage to bonus ad % and added FLAT damage. just rever that change and think of another way and leave him as a niche champion to players who want to only play draven.

I was ok with running into the occasional 150 game draven one trick who would be tough to deal with in lane because he's put so much time on the mechanics of draven.

I'm not really ok draven being popular since he's so strong early now. you don't even need to kite well with him early. later on he is still as difficult which is why you see so many dravens lose who don't get fed early, but still. just revert the old changes. his late game was insane before, but im ok with that.

RebellìonJun 13, 20173 votes

Agreed. Draven is a one of the unique champs in the game, he is not like all the other ad's. Death's dance makes it so even if you make 10 times the mistakes you made before this item, you still have some chances of winning and if u are ahead then the chances that u will win are much higher. Since fervor seems to be the most adaptive keystone though because warlords is not that viable, I don't agree 100% with the vamp and Q change. I mean, your opinion is 20 times more important than mine, and that is not sarcastic, i mean it, but that is my point of view.

OptimisticPersonJun 13, 20173 votes

Yeah maybe nerfing his q for lifesteal is not a good idea, i just know that when i play vs draven in lane and he has vampiric he can run me down and then he can just lifesteal it all back in no time which can be hard to deal with, but it has always been like that and wasnt really a problem before DD buff so i dont know..

MyrkrvaldyrJun 13, 20173 votes

Tyler1 must be raging hard with his champ getting banned so much xD.

ParvatiShallowJun 13, 20173 votes

Twitch has similar winrates but Draven is just easier to pin why he is so strong. DD did push him over the edge. He is a ban unless you know you can survive lane phase. I can go even with him as MF and even win depending on supports but I kind of shudder to think how non-laning ADC even manage to trade with current Draven building lifesteal.

Emerald FangJun 13, 20171 votes

Twitch is Draven, but invisible, longer-range, and able to hit every champion at once.

ParvatiShallowJun 13, 20172 votes

I mean that is literally just listing everything about twitch without a solution. I think Twitch's identity isn't the problem. It's that that he gets to his core items too quickly. If Twitch had a harder time getting to his items he would be in the same boat as Jinx and wouldn't be a huge deal. Draven and Twitch build quite differently but you didn't see Draven until DD was buffed. Twitch has always been strong so reducing his early game stats would be fair. DD is just too good on Draven so either the item's ranged function or Draven's kit could be adjusted. I'm okay with Draven being strong early, but it shouldn't be so guaranteed as it is now.

Smikkelen1Jun 13, 20172 votes

Make DD reduce 15% only on Draven, 30 on other adc and 50% on melee

IfosaryJun 13, 20177 votes

?XD

ChîpsJun 13, 20172 votes

Have you seen Riven and Fiora with current DD? Fuckin broken

GayFluffyUnicornJun 14, 20173 votes

yup, few weeks ago riven winrate spiked to 60% in diamond with new DD. Now it's far less after other trashier players caught up but still 53% WR in general for a champ like riven means she is outright overpowered as hell.

SerophousJun 13, 20172 votes

They do what they did back with old Warwick and when the jungle items were new.

Nerf the item AND nerf the champ

Teridax68Jun 13, 20172 votes

The issue with giving more defensive tools to marksmen is that it makes them more difficult to punish, while also making them snowball even harder, as their defense scales off of their offense. Draven in particular is supposed to be a high-risk, high-reward marksman who's meant to be heavily punishable when he misplays, so mitigating that means he ends up having no major weakness other than his difficulty. I personally would rather not see Draven nerfed, as the issue seems to be with life steal/Death's Dance and not so much with him specifically (life steal's been causing major problems on many other marksmen too), but if he's still a problem in spite of lessened defenses, then perhaps that might be the occasion to tone him down.

ME YES SMART Jun 13, 20172 votes

Nerf DD as a draven main I can say DD is the issue its not draven himself, DD is strong on many champions not just draven its just draven benefits alot more from this than others.

AngrychickénJun 14, 20172 votes

Wait, is that why draven is getting banned all of a sudden?

I just banned him because draven mid is cancer for me to deal with.

Phyuq YiuJun 14, 20172 votes

Holy shit I knew that DD made you take less damage and apply it as true damage over time but 30% is busted, with the life steal and 80 AD omfgbbqsauce

Apfelwein EssigDec 30, 20172 votes

When a level 4 Draven hits you for 400 damage non-crit, something, somewhere is imbalanced.

Darkdemon653Jun 13, 20171 votes

If DD is making Draven OP, then it's making all RADs OP. The only synergy Draven has with DD (over lifesteal) is the increased chance to proc his passive, and that matters for only one kill every several minutes.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 14, 20174 votes

Dude a draven with tabis, BT, DD, PD can basically facetank 5 people at once if he has the pleasure of an ivern or janna as well.