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Quinn Marksman Update Balance Ideas

White Chyna·Nov 11, 2015·1 votes·379 views

When I first saw the Quinn update, I'll be honest; it wasn't pretty. But to be honest, I've gotten over the blind removal, and the passive scaling is nice. But what still makes me mad beyond belief is the new ultimate. I'm not exaggerating when I say it is LITERALLY a Mobility Boots With a two second channel. When Quinn takes damage, during the ability or the channel, the ultimate is cancelled. You have to be kidding me. That does not constitute as an ultimate. Ultimates are, as the tutorial says, abilities that can change the game (I think it says something like that anyways). Oh great! Level six! What do I get? A massive nuke that scales off of both my and my opponents' AP ? My own section of terrain to isolate enemies and pick them off with my team ? A massive crowd control that can literally turn the tide of the fight if good strategy is used !? Oh... I got an item that costs 800 gold. ... You're kidding. Now, of course I know that Quinn's ultimate has damage attached to it and now adds a Harrier mark onto the opponent, but the damage is so lackluster it's ridiculous. You could have two Harrier marks put on and used by the time that this ultimate would do damage and mark them. And the former would do SO MUCH MORE DAMAGE! Quinn's update really concerns me, Riot. If Quinn is going to survive in this juggernaut meta that is late Season 5, she needs buffs and NOW. Here's what I personally think a good Quinn buff would look like with this new kit:

Ultimate and ultimate channel are no longer cancelled by damage.

Channel time is reduced to one second.

Ultimate damage increased (I don't know exactly how much would be fair, but I'm sure it would be easy to figure out).

I don't think that this update is healthy for my favorite Demacian. What do you guys think of my analysis? What about Quinn's update in general? Or, how do you think my proposed balances would work/fail for her? Have any balance ideas of your own?

4 Comments

masterdragon481Nov 11, 20151 votes

First of all, your preconception of what an ultimate is isn't quite correct. That is the most common form for an ultimate to take, but I could point you to Jayce, Nidalee, Elise, and Udyr for starters as champions that don't follow that formula. I think there are actually LOTS of ultis that aren't the pivotal part of a champions kit. So right away, I can say that quinn's new ultimate is fine from that point of view.

Second, I think the ability isn't bad. She gets to return to lane faster than most other champions post 6 (and with tp nerfs coming that might become more relevant). The fact that it can be stopped is fair as a way the enemy can interact with her.

It doesn't really do a lot of damage at all anymore and I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, if the damage is buffed, Quinn has damage to a no cost good damage spell on a very short cool down. We don't need another Leblanc play pattern, and that seems like what would happen. On the other hand, if the damage is so low its ignorable, then that would also be a problem. Best to try it out and see what happens I say; its too early right now to say anything definitively.

White ChynaNov 29, 20151 votes

I will admit my perception of an ultimate's impact is a bit overblown, but think about the difference between the ultimates you listed and Quinn's ultimate. For Jayce, Nidalee, Elise, and other champions with a transformation ultimate, they [almost] always are available at level one, and give the champion three new abilities, four if you count the transformation back. Also, Udyr doesn't really have an ultimate; he's an oddball in that sense. Since it is available at level one, and is not an "ultimate" (ranked up only at levels 6, 11, and 16), I think he is not really a good comparison. But back to transformation ultimates. Quinn used to be this with Valor. But it was gutted with the marksman updates. I'm not saying Quinn's ultimate was the "pivotal part of her kit", as you put it so well, but it was her execute. Think about it like this, Jinx's ult is her execute, but it is not her vital ability. She, like Quinn, could survive as a champion without it. Whether she would do well would be debated, but I digress.

You pointed out that Quinn's new ultimate allows her to return to lane faster, and the Teleport nerfs coming soon will make it more valuable. I do realize this is a strength, but an early Boots of Mobility will have much of the same effect, because, let's face it, Quinn's ultimate's base speed at rank one (A.K.A. when you'd need it to get back to lane) really isn't all that high. At all. So while I do think it is a nice quality of life change and will become slightly more valuable as the Teleport nerfs arise, I do not believe this is enough to constitute as an ultimate. And yes, it does do damage, it is lackluster. But you do bring up a good point; having a low cooldown high damaging ability would be EXTREMELY unfair. I will be the first (or second?) to admit that. I thought about it, and came up with a solution. Hear me out; it probably sounds crazy.

...

Make her ultimate's Valor form change (Behind Enemy Lines) and the damage part (Skystrike) have different cooldowns. This likely sounds very odd, as I don't think any ability has that sort of interaction. I dunno, you may have to correct me on that. But what if you could have the Valor form cooldown stay as it is, but when you change, you see the cooldown of the Skystrike. So if you pressed it to go back to Quinn before it was up, she would just return, dealing no damage and causing no Harrier marks to appear. Then, when it was off cooldown, it would do a significant amount of damage and BE AN EXECUTE!

I dunno. What do you think?

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Sparkle YetiNov 11, 20151 votes

I'm okay with the blind being removed, even though it has saved my butt plenty of times. I like the fact that there is more opportunities for harrier to be activated with her Q now.

The ult is a huge problem though, after playing as her today I just don't think it is effective for escape or chasing down for the kill like it used to be, you really can only use it as mobility to get from point A to point B. I think the channel time needs to be reduced by at least half the time so that you have some hope of escaping tight situations, otherwise this ult is really only useful for getting back to lane quickly or for roaming, seems pretty lacking as an "ult" to me.

Here is what I think needs to change with her ult:

Channel time down to 1 second Ult is cancelled if hit by a champion but NOT minions or turrets (turrets should slow). Ult cannot be cancelled when channeling only after valor comes Higher damage on the burst coming out of ult.

White ChynaNov 29, 20151 votes

So, with the new updates in 5.23... I like them, but Riot really missed the main weakness in her kit (ultimate -.-). Her blind is back, and has a nearsight effect. But Riot is doing nothing to aid her extremely lackluster ultimate. It got one change this patch. A name change. Awesome. But seriously, Quinn is hands down the weakest marksman from the marksman update. Corki has great burst, and Graves AMAZING burst. Miss Fortune is just... ridiculous, Caitlyn will give any melee fighter without a gap closer hell, and Kog'Maw's DoT is off the charts. But Quinn is considerably weaker. She's supposed to be a roamer with global presence... but that's a laning strength. And that's not just me saying that was her intended role, on the Marksman update page it stated that they wanted her to be a roaming ADC, or something close to that. But roaming does not mean a won game. Insane burst, poke, or just raw damage mean won games (obviously not always, but they are extremely powerful). Quinn is not a weak champion right now like Urgot. She is, however, a weak marksman. In terms of marksman, she may be one of the "worst" (considering this is an ADC meta, durr), except the aforementioned Urgot. So in conclusion, while I do like Riot giving Quinn her blind back, her ultimate is still flawed to an extent that she is overall a weak marksman. She needs a new execute, hopefully her ultimate like before, and even that wouldn't make her as good as the other updated marksmen.

Do you agree with me? Disagree? Share your opinions, I'm happy to listen! ^_^

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