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Mark/Dash Balance Discussion Mega-Thread

TheChills··60 votes·24,556 views

Before I get started, no I don't have an ARAM only crafted account and yes I DO agree that certain melee champs needed a decent boost in ARAM. I do play mostly ARAM, but I've also been playing League since shortly after it released and I have a plethora of champs in all different capacities (I got the collector's starter pack a long time ago, for example). I see people downvoted into oblivion mostly on these baseless assumptions and dismissive arguments, I'd like to hold a proper discussion. Anyway, to the meat.

I'm going to take a long hard look at Mark/Dash, what I think Riot's goals were for the summoner spell and why I believe they've missed the mark (no pun intended... okay maybe a little). First, let's start with some history, you can skip ahead to the next paragraph if not interested but I want to cover all bases. ARAM started as a custom only player made mode of gameplay where people would queue up random champs and agree to not leave the center lane in SR, after it gained popularity Riot eventually added more support for the mode, eventually turning it into an official game mode with the inclusion of the howling abyss and some balance changes to the game to better suit the mode. For a while now the mode has existed and had a few balance changes over the years but nothing really radical that would change the whole mode. Ranged champs for a while have had an advantage against melee champs if they were unable to survive to the point that they could get enough tank to wade into fights and initiate. Heal and sustain champs also continue to be something of a problem in the mode as well. Riot recently added a new summoner spell, Mark, and a few more items to try and give melee champs a better chance at surviving the early game poke barrage, an attempt to level the playing field a little more.

Now let's take a look at Mark/Dash and compare it to other similar summoner spells, just the facts and no spin:

  • Mark/Dash- 20s cd, range 2500 skill shot, speed appears to be roughly 1200 (I have no hard numbers so I will use Morganna's dark binding speed), if a target is hit with mark they take 200 true damage (max rank) and the spell user may activate it again within 3s to instantly teleport to that target. Ignores spell shields.

  • Ignite- 210s cd, range 600 targeted instant, 410 true damage total (max rank) over a 5s duration, cuts healing in half for the duration of the spell.

  • Flash- 300s cd, range 425 smart cast, moves the target in the direction of the cursor instantly.

Well, let's get some comparisons here. In the time it takes to do a second ignite, assuming all mark skill shots hit, you have a potential of 10 marks dishing out 2000 true damage to an ignite's 410, I can even be generous and say you only hit a third of your skill shots and that is still roughly 600 true damage- mark also has 2500 range which is 1900 more than ignite. As for flash, you get 15 mark attempts in the span of flash coming off cd and the range is 2500, which is 2075 more range than flash and it deals damage. That doesn't seem very balanced? Does it? Even as a skill shot that can be dodged there's a pretty good chance you'll land at least one mark in 10-15 attempts.

Now let's compare mark to some other champion abilities:

  • Piercing Arrow- Varus has the longest range non-ultimate damaging ability in the game (I believe, I did some research but please correct me if I am wrong) clocking in at 1900 speed, 1625 range when fully charged- From base to max level: 16 to 8s cd, costs 70 to 90 mana, 10 to 157 (+100% AD) phys damage.

  • Javelin Toss- Nidalee is second I could find with a 1500 range Javelin toss, had trouble finding info on the speed though it appears to be about 1300- From base to max level: 6s cd, 50 to 90 mana, 150 to 450 (+120% ap) MAX magical damage (50-150 (+40%) minimum damage).

  • Mark- has a range of 2500 and rough travel speed of about 1200, 20s cd, costs no resources, 30 to 200 true damage.

It beats the best damage range ability in range by about 875 which is more than half the total range of Piercing Arrow and doesn't cost any resources. Mark is, however, also significantly slower than Piercing Arrow and deals less damage (more than likely, only the most extreme amount of armor would mitigate enough to tip the balance, which is unlikely), the 20s cd is also still more than double the time of a Piercing Arrow cd. Mark isn't going to be beating Piercing Arrow for poke or anything, but it does have some advantages over it. Not sure Riot ever intended summoner spells to be close to the power of champion abilities, but this one is so far the closest we've ever seen.

A few other notes I'd like to add:

  • Mark makes for the safest bush checking in the game, out ranging all other abilities and costing no resources. Sure, a poke champ could just poke into a bush but at the very least most champs had a chance to be poked back as they approached- the only thing that can counter a mark check is another mark or moving out of the bush, mark has a modest hitbox (I don't have any stats on it, sadly) but still decently sized enough to cover most of the bush from my experimenting (especially at the right angle) and can even cover both bushes because of the range.

  • The counter to being mark/dashed is either avoiding the skill shot, champ escape abilities (if you have one), or flash- however you can mark 15 times in the span of a flash cd. It becomes increasingly difficult to avoid Mark skillshots if the whole enemy team has it and even if mark misses you, it can still hit a minion allowing the marker to close in and initiate.

  • Mark gives champs balanced around initiating (champion kits that are focused on their ability to close in to maximize their potential or ultimates that require them to be close) a 20s cd free ability with range greater than any other champ normal ability to do so- for a good number of champs (fiddles, alistar, kennen, galio, amumu, for a few examples) this imbalances them. Their kits weren't built around having an extra gap closer of this range or cd.

Ah, speaking of balance, this is a bit of a side track but I'd also like to address the attitude that ARAM is not competitive and is a goof off mode. First off, it is a game of a team of players fighting against another team of players which already means it is inherently a competitive game. Secondly, if it were truly intended to be a goof off mode then why would Riot ever go through so many attempts to balance out the mode or make it more balanced so most champs stood a better chance against each other? Healing got nerfed, ARAM specific values have been adjusted several times, items are allowed or not to promote balance, melee champs (at the base game level, not ARAM specific) are given extra survivability and typically some abilities to their kit to allow them to wade into a fight (there are also many items that they can get to aid them). It is not impossible for a non-poke team to beat a poke team in ARAM- it is hard, pokers have a slight advantage, but a smart team with good tank can roll a team with no tank. Anyway, I'm ranting a bit now, moving on.

I agree ARAM melee guys could have used a small boost. Something to help them out when facing an overwhelming poke advantage. The problem with Mark is that it went too far- the cd is too low, the damage not really needed, and the range greater than most champ abilities. It completely outshines the other summoner abilities AND can be combined with other ones. Here are some suggestions to help bring ARAM back to a healthy more balanced state:

  1. Increase Mark's cd, lower or remove the damage, decrease the range. It will still be a great ability, right now it just has too many awesome things going for it.
  2. Make Mark ARAM a separate mode. This is less likely, as it will involve more work, but those who really like mark as it is now would be able to continue to play with it in the game. ARAM has been a long established game mode now and is fairly popular, to suddenly throw in a new summoner that radically changes the way the game is played was a bit extreme.
  3. Change mark to an item. Make it an item that you have to purchase and something you actually have to make sacrifices for, this would be a huge step in making it more balanced- but also, again, more work for Riot.
  4. Remove mark, create some other way for melees to counter poke. Not ideal, I think a lot of people like the idea of mark, it just needs to be balanced better. As it is now it is All Random All Mark.

Well, I think that's about it. Thanks for reading! I just want to see a great and balanced ARAM for everyone. I switched over to mostly playing ARAM after I got tired of the 10-15 minute last hitting grind of SR. I really like the instant team fight action, getting into what I feel is the meat of the game faster. I also enjoy the difficulty of playing new champs and trying to beat the odds of a random selection. I don't want to see the strategy of ARAM reduced to a giant snowball fight :)

EDIT: Here are a few other threads on the topic discussing the matter- http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kXUYYvh8-feedback-for-snowball-implementation-in-aram http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rdp3JhX4-markdash-feedback-from-a-2600-aram-player http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/TjUAJgrj-poll-markdash-snowball-survey

182 Comments

RiotMANWOLFAXEBOSS32 votes

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Much appreciated.

Yup. We agree that Mark/Dash needs a little tweaking :)

So, yesterday we put a change in that will split the damage between Mark and Dash roughly 25/75%. It's on PBE right now. It also still has the CDR incentive.

This will kill some of that "pokey-ness" that exists now and reward players who commit. My mind is telling me no...

We're still keeping an eye on things like the CD and will address it if we see it being too abusive, but we're pretty happy with the change. Let us know what you think!

EDIT: Not on PBE yet. My bad. Will be soon!

LightEcho22 votes

Can something be done about the visibility so the ability doesn't blend in with the map.

EfficientDynamo14 votes

Thank you for taking that first step, but I would suggest bringing it more in line with other summoner spells (which all have a LONG cooldown).

Alternatively, why not make the mark/dash distance closer to an ADC's range? If the point was to make melee champs more viable, that should work while not being as abusive at it is now.

Edit: No one can or should reasonably interpret this as me saying that the spell should have ignite's CD and range... there is a happy middle ground.

YOU BEEN WARNED13 votes

Oh, you mean make it point blank or point click? Because that's all the summoner spells.

This is the first skillshot summoner spell, if it had a high CD. It will be useless. It should stay as it is for the sake of fun ( it is a blast to use )

But you tryhards only look at the "victory" screen after the game, who cares that guy rolled Udyr/Singed/Garen. It's not me!

lightdragoon889 votes

Just like AP Yi was a blast to use

Or Eve with a stun was a blast to use

Or when release Xin Zhao was a blast to use

Or when Twisted Fate has a golbal teleport on his E was a blast to use

Or back when dodge was a state, playing Jax with a 90% dodge ratio was a blast to use.

Just because it is fun for you, doesn't make it fun for everyone else.

YOU BEEN WARNED18 votes

I understand landing a skillshot is easier than dodging it. But seriously, you should dodge skillshots m8.

Your comparison is embarrising, really. If this summoner spell to you is anything like AP Yi, there is something fundamentally wrong with your mechanics.

lightdragoon888 votes

Well yeah, stop AP YI, all you have to do is not get hit by his Q, or stop his healing so that makes it fair right?

If all 5 of them have that item, then on a average ARAM game, there will be 200-300 of them flying during the entire game. You really think you are going to dodge all of those?

Telepathism13 votes

Lol, the spell is slower than an Ahri Q and it does not pierce targets. Somehow you consider 5 summoner spell spams OP while an all poke team spamming their PASS THROUGH spells is OK. Lux FiddlesticksSona Ziggs Xerath Velkoz and many more.

lightdragoon885 votes

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now image those characters spells **ALONG **with snowballs flying all over the place. Good luck dodging all of them.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Centuros5 votes

Those characters generally don't WANT to throw snowballs. At the very least, they don't get nearly as much benefit from Dash, so if the damage gets nerfed they would have zero reason to use it.

Ice Weasel X9 votes

{quoted}

Those characters generally don't WANT to throw snowballs. At the very least, they don't get nearly as much benefit from Dash, so if the damage gets nerfed they would have zero reason to use it.

Those characters certainly do fling snowballs. On cooldown. Everyone does. They don't do it for the dash-to-enemy. They do it for the free true damage at massive range and vision along its path. Sona and Fiddlesticks actually use the Dash to make their ults even more irritating. Sona and Fiddlesticks were already considered among the biggest pains in the ass on ARAM, and they're stronger now. Yet this is supposed to even the playing field?

It didn't. It just made it annoying no matter who you're playing.

Mandaari6 votes

Did you even read the OP? By pure numbers Mark is much stronger and much safer than ignite.

As far as Dash goes, they probably wouldn't get as much use from it alone. But part of the reason Mark exists in the first place is to help melees poke. And I can think of several reasons that it would still be useful, albeit probably not worth taking, that those champions are using it for right now.

  • Catch up to team fights faster
  • Use it behind you and escape
  • Get back to lane faster
Cosnirak13 votes

I LOVE Mark/Dash! I play ARAM a lot, especially with friends, and I am enjoying it so much more now. I get champions that previously felt like death sentences and my face lights up instead.

I agree the damage aspect needs a nerf like what you mentioned. I also think the cooldown is a little too low. 30 or 40 second cd seems more appropriate.

A very minor nerf to the range might be good, or just not letting it work on minions. Right now it even helps you get back to lane faster sometimes if minions are at your turret. When you can use it THAT freely it's probably too good. I've intentionally last hit minions with it. :D

Maybe take away the vision it provides as it flies. As long as it keeps the basics of low cd, mark enemy champ and then can dash to them I think I'll love it.

Just today I was using it on Cho'gath because Dash + Feast = Nom Nom time!

RavenMagus19 votes

Champions that felt like death sentences before are now the new toxic. ARAM has gone from a pokefest to a bruiser/tankfest; if you're a squishy, be prepared to die endlessly to the constant long range gapclosing bruisers.

I no longer look at a loading screen of Jayce, Janna, Morgana, and Lux as true terror. I now load in, see a team with Vi, Braum, Shyvana, and Sejuani, and I instantly want to disconnect and gouge my eyes out because that'll be more fun than playing against four tanks with Mark as a mage.

Mandaari11 votes

It's really obvious that the people that downvote this kind of post don't play ARAM as their main mode. This has been my exact feeling since the spell was announced on the PBE and since it was added. All of the champions that are stronger for it are champions that were very strong in the first place. Literally none of the champions that the spell was targeted toward have had a respectable jump in win rate.

Cosnirak13 votes

I highly disagree with you both. One of the main problems is people aren't used to it still. Learn to fight it, it's not hard. I often sit there marked going "take it, I dare you to take it!" in my head (or out loud :D ) because taking it can be so risky. Use turrets and team mates and abilities to trap them. Someone dashes to you? Blow them up! Use their travel time to cast stuff that takes a moment to go off. Respect your own low hp if that's the case. Dodge snowballs!!!! There are so many ways to fight tanks and fighters in general, stop acting like you can't beat someone dashing to you as a squishy. Zhonya's and laugh as your team makes them disappear before it ends, it's HILARIOUS.

I promise you, Lux is still way scarier than any of those you mentioned. You people just gotta adapt a little. Change is hard, but it IS possible and if you embrace it IS fun.

Mandaari9 votes

I don't know how to adapt?

And yes, the wins continue through the start of the patch.

Cosnirak9 votes

As you can see there are ways to win without those champs. Also the patch is still pretty new. Not everyone plays multiple ARAM games a day every day. :p In some of my recent ARAM games I had people asking what the snowballs are lol.

Mandaari10 votes

This is my point. People who don't put the time into learning how to play ARAM are being balanced around. SR doesn't get balanced around bronze. It should be no different here.

Akeydel9 votes

But ARAM was DESIGNED to be more casual, less laning, more action. Before the patch, there were champs who were inherently better than others, and they all thrived around preparing for, and engaging in teamfights. (i.e. poke, shield, sustain). Now the same is true, but they are different champs, and the gap isnt nearly as big. What summoner 31 did was change the meta of what was strong in the game, and they did it without completely erasing what used to be strong. Now instead of ONLY poke and sustain, other playstyles have a chance to do well. Also, ARAM takes away so many elements from SR, (the jungle, dragon/baron, any form of laning,) that comparing the two in terms of balance, and saying "It should be no different here" is ignoring the basis of the mode.

Mandaari11 votes

No. ARAM was designed by players long ago as a custom game, not by Riot. There were always people that took the game and its rules seriously before they were enforced. And it has always been trolls that ruined it.

Adding Mark did not change the meta, it just made the champions that were already strong stronger. Again I turn to data. None of the champions that Mark was targeted for have budged significantly. None of the champions that it was targeted against have budged significantly. The only difference is that the strong tanks like Amumu, Maokai, etc have moved closer to 60% when they were already sitting well above 50%. Virtually every single champion that Mark was supposed to help has stayed near 40%.

ARAM is not the same as SR, but using that to justify not balancing it is like saying that Dominion should not be balanced because it's not SR. They all have different elements, and all of them should be balanced.

Akeydel5 votes

Allow me to correct myself: The OFFICIAL RIOT IMPLEMENTATION of ARAM has been more causal.

You can't declare the entire summoner spell a balance failure because of 3 days worth of win/loss data. That isn't to say that everything will magically end up ok, but the amount of posts crying out for it to be removed after 3 DAYS isn't justified. And ARAM wasn't balanced in the first place. Any champ whose strength wasn't team-oriented was underpowered, and by design too. I don't understand why that is any better than than tanks with summoner 31.

Mandaari8 votes

You're absolutely correct that I can't make a decision based off of 3 days of data. That's exactly why I will continue monitoring it. What I do find interesting is that back when Mark was added to the PBE I pointed out that exactly what the data shows is happening would happen. A model is much more convincing if it predicts something, which is exactly what I did.

And again, you're right that ARAM wasn't totally balanced in the first place. But again, that's not a justifiable reason to trade it for another evil, especially when that new evil is such a departure from what ARAM was. That's what is justifiable. Mark, even if it did make ARAM more balanced (which it didn't), is not wanted by dedicated ARAM players. It's not ARAM.

Cosnirak3 votes

The problem is that YOU want ARAM to be a poke meta and you seem to think any departure from that is bad (or at least that it's fun and the current one is worse). Riot doesn't feel the same. I don't feel the same either. The same goes for a lot of people who play ARAM a lot, but simply aren't you. You can't presume to speak for all dedicated ARAM players. Sure some agree with you, but many others don't.

We don't feel Mark/Dash is a new evil. Nor do I personally feel the poke way is the old evil (except Fiddlesticks, seriously Dark Wind is so not ok in ARAM).

As to which champions got better/worse I feel like honestly all win rate data on such things aside from massive outliers is pretty useless. There are so many factors involved obviously, but another key is that for a lot of players the point isn't just winning.

When I get a champion that's bad at ARAM (even with Mark/Dash) that's a challenge. It's a chance for me to learn how to fix that through play and/or my build. Can I talk my teammates into working better with my champ? If a certain champ is bad at ARAM, WHY IS IT BAD? I wanna know and understand that and see how I can translate that knowledge into winning more, in ARAM and SR. And of course the opposite too. Why is Lux so good in ARAM and yet not in SR? How can I use that?

Plus all that challenge is fun! The uphill battle is a challenge you can rise to. The champ you've never played before? A new opportunity to learn. The perfect ARAM god comp vs random bad stuff? A chance to show off and see just how hard you can snowball! I don't own Varus, I haven't played him but once in months, but because he was free recently I got him in ARAM and got a pentakill.

As a picture I love says.... "Fuck your shit, fun things are fun!" Know what else is fun? Mark/Dash! :D

Mandaari9 votes

I have never once stated that I want poke to be the meta in ARAM. You know who I hate to see more than any other champion in ARAM? Varus. You know what's really frustrating to play against for me? CC poke comps. Again, someone that criticizes Mark is labeled as someone who just wants to get carried by poke comps. Sorry, but that's just not the case.

I have no sympathy for players that play ARAM as a troll mode. Period.

I'm not saying no more poke meta is evil; I'm not saying tank meta is evil; I'm saying Mark is evil. If you find Mark fun, fine. Enjoy it. But enjoy it on a featured game mode like poro king. I can make the same "Fuck your shit, fun things are fun!" argument for permanently making SR into URF. That got old fast. The difference is you had the normal queue to go back to. ARAM players don't.

Ice Weasel X9 votes

{quoted}

The difference is you had the normal queue to go back to. ARAM players don't.

This is something that needs to be addressed, seriously. I'll repeat what I said elsewhere.

Given the following player groups:

  • Group 1: Summoner's Rift mains who play ARAM 1-5 times a week
  • Group 2: ARAM mains who play ARAM 20+ times a week

Would it be healthier for the game mode to keep a feature that Group 1 felt made the mode "incredibly fun" even though they still only played a few games weekly if the majority of Group 2 felt it ruined the mode for them?

Blackquill5 votes

That is just a blatant lie. ARAM by it's nature was always in favor of ranged poke champs with low CDs. Ashe? GG afk. Varus? sigh Vel'koz? BRZZZ Lux? Get Void Staff and delete ppl. Ezreal? The AP caster who must not be named.

Mandaari7 votes

What's a blatant lie? When did I claim ranged champions didn't have an advantage?

Ashe, Varus, Vel'Koz, and Lux all have high win rates on ARAM.

  • Ashe has gone down very slightly since the patch dropped, but it coincides with a free week.

  • Varus has gone down fairly significantly since the patch, but again it coincides with a free week.

  • Vel'koz has dropped by about 1%.

  • Lux has dropped by about 3%, still sitting at 59%.

  • Ezreal has not changed from about 52%.

I'm perfectly capable of giving both sides of an argument. But let's actually look at all side.

  • Amumu has gone up from 53% to 54%.

  • Maokai has gone from 55% to 61%.

  • Sion has stayed at 60% while coinciding with a free week. Edit: Also after a nerf.

  • Vlad has gone from 55% to almost 59%.

For all of those champions that were strong that were hurt by Mark, there are those that were strong and become much stronger. Still, now the game is very different while many champions keep their high win rate. The champions that Mark was supposed to help are still sitting in the low 40% range.

Cosnirak1 votes

What if Mark/Dash doesn't balance winrates in ARAM? What if it balances fun rates instead? :D

Mandaari8 votes

I'd say go play featured game modes.

The Aelious6 votes

The problem is that Mark/Dash go against the attempted (because it's hard with so many champs) balance that exists within each champ. Most melee have aspects or abilities that compensate for the fact they don't have poke, just like those champs that can poke have weaknesses to compensate it. Riot has completely undermined their own system of balance and the fact Mark/Dash are ARAM only tells me they know this already.

Dodge it? Sure, unless everyone has the skill, which most do now, and are flinging them from cover. As soon as someone sees the purple snowflake, all in.

If they want a way to balance the teams put in a filter that matches archetypes. Until then, or Mark/Dash is completely revamped, keep down voting those against it and up voting those for it. Maybe they will port it to the other game modes as-is Draven .

Cosnirak2 votes

Except that the way ARAM works also completely unbalances champions first. Mark/Dash is an attempt to balance them somewhat within ARAM while being a lot of fun.

If you stand by your turret and/or allies and only one enemy hits with their Mark and goes in, you destroy them. It's not hard. Respect that the mark is on you if you get hit. It's really not that hard to deal with most of the time. Sure sometimes it'll catch you where you can't do anything about it but die, that's the point. Other summoner spells do that too.

Some people are trying to act like it doesn't exist until someone kills them with it (in these discussions). That's not the reality. When I Dash sometimes it works out great, sometimes it was a bad dive and we're punished. I try to only do it when it's the right time but sometimes my team all turn around and run just as I hit Dash and then I die and then they're screwed because they're down a person. Sometimes I Dash to someone and they run to their turret and they root me as I appear and I get wrecked.

The Aelious5 votes

ARAM doesn't unbalance the champions by itself, it's merely a single mid lane. This does give advantages to certain champions but when you put 5v5 in that one lane this can change quickly depending on group comps. My point is that each champion has a set of abilities that make them unique and work to one whole style of play. For example, there is a reason Yi doesn't have a ranged attack. There is a reason Varus is squishy. ARAM on it's own doesn't change these principals.

First step would be taking the damage of Mark/Dash out. Second would be to have the Dash automatic after n seconds if not activated. Then put the CD up to a reasonable level. Or, if fun and excitement is the key, make all of the summoner skills short CDs.

Truth is, any change made can come with a "just learn to play with it and adapt" mentality by the players. I know ARAM is seen as the practice mode pastime that may not be as important but for some it's their preferred mode. Mark/Dash needs a lot of tweaking.

JTSpender7 votes

I'd like to put my vote down for "horrendously oppressive and not in a fun way". My biggest problem is that it makes champs that were already mobile almost untouchable unless you have a ton of hard cc, and it takes away almost all of the interesting positioning play.

I don't mind the damage at all (I actually think being able to pick off distant low-health people is actually more fun for everyone) but the cooldown is ridiculous. I think what's more reasonable is a 20-30 second cooldown if you don't dash, and a 60-90 second cooldown if you do. The longer cooldown is more in line with an ult cooldown, so can be comboed effectively with those, and will allow for frequent fight initiation, but it's not going to let people bounce around a fight constantly.

It's still going to be a huge problem with a few people (coughGalio ultcough) but I think that would tone things down drastically.

TheWorstAtLoL14 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Much appreciated.

Yup. We agree that Mark/Dash needs a little tweaking :)

So, yesterday we put a change in that will split the damage between Mark and Dash roughly 25/75%. It's on PBE right now. It also still has the CDR incentive.

This will kill some of that "pokey-ness" that exists now and reward players who commit. My mind is telling me no...

We're still keeping an eye on things like the CD and will address it if we see it being too abusive, but we're pretty happy with the change. Let us know what you think!

EDIT: Not on PBE yet. My bad. Will be soon!

Remove the snowballs all together.

This isnt what was intended when ARAM was made.

It RUINS the mode.

Penta Penguin28 votes

ARAM Main Cry-hards everybody

TheChills20 votes

Thanks for contributing nothing to the conversation.

Penta Penguin13 votes

It is the only thing that needs to be said

Argue all you want but even now the PBE has "nerfs" which only split the abilities damage, everything else stays. Just like the Poro Snacks stayed so you can continue your epic lvl 3 cheese ganks

It's no wonder you can't handle Rift

TheChills20 votes

Yes, I can't "handle" rift because I think it's a boring game mode. Thanks for trying to deflect and once again proving you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion other than sticking your head in the ground, plugging your ears, and screaming that you don't want to listen to reason. Ignorance is bliss, right? Easier to dismiss someone than to try actually holding a conversation with them, like proper adults.

Penta Penguin8 votes

There is nothing of substance to this entire topic, so what's the point. The PBE patch is there and mark/dash isn't going anywhere, it's done and your game mode is "ruined"

I don't know what goggles you're wearing, but I mostly see the ARAM Cry-hards being the ones plugging their ears and screaming about their "balance". The board is flooded with complaint after complaint all from people who don't even play the core game, and think it's "boring" because it's not cluster-fuck mini game like ARAM

Go hide in a bush and eat your Poro snacks dude

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TheChills13 votes

A few things. First, the topic is warranted because the ability in question is a point of contention amongst the players of the game. Are you trying to say players aren't allowed to discuss the game they play? I'd rather try to help bring things like this to the attention of others and Riot if possible, possibly giving them a point of view they hadn't considered and offering suggestions to make things better. I also like that you call it "my" game mode, do you not play ARAM as well? You seem to have a lot of disdain for ARAM for some reason. Are you just here to troll?

Second, This is a topic about an ability that only affects ARAM and the "core" game (I assume you mean SR) has nothing to do with it. Whether people play more ARAM or SR doesn't influence this topic, well, other than people that play more ARAM probably have more experience to draw upon when talking about the effect of mark on the game mode.

I agree, a lot of people on both sides are flying off the handle. It's a big change to the game. Naturally, that's going to upset people. Calling people Cry-hards and trying to invalidate what they are saying with similarly dismissive statements doesn't help anyone. Sorry we don't all conform to your very narrow world view.

Penta Penguin4 votes

i've been playing aram frequently since snowball release, because it's alot more fun now

ARAM is a FUN and CASUAL mode for Rift players when they want a break, go away

the fact that people only play aram shows that they dont have an adequate perspective to judge it based on what / who the mode is intended for

It is not a big change, Snow Down was great fun and the featured game mode attracted players across the board; people really liked it.

But then we went back to normal and the Cry-hards (deal with it) are left to be the vocal minority and shit on one of the best decisions Riot has made for their mini-games and alternate game modes in a while

I don't need to try to invalidate or dismiss anyone or any opinion because it's already done, that is just reality, snowball is staying and you better get a god damn towel to wipe off all those tears (and snow)

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lightdragoon8811 votes

Then let us add Mark/Dash to your SR map then.

YOU BEEN WARNED23 votes

The ranged champion bias on boards is showing, massively.

You can land skillshots with your ranged champion, but you can't dodge them apparently.

InivtesPreeze13 votes

Remove it.

MiniJunkie13 votes

~ 3000 games of ARAM here, and a ton of money spent on skins to use in it as well. I don't have a dedicated ARAM account and I own all but 5 or 6 champs.

I only play ARAM, because

  • games are generally shorter than SR.
  • minimal toxicity compared to SR.
  • I enjoy the pace, the strategic play (it's there, it just happens at a much faster speed!), and the fun of using an unexpected champ each time.
  • I know dedicated ARAM accounts exist - I don't get why anyone would enjoy abusing the system that way, but it doesn't bother me much. AFKs are what piss me off the most.

And now, suddenly, Riot makes a change that drastically alters the dynamic of the mode.

It's really disheartening. You wouldn't drop this spell into SR so why do it to ARAM? As some people have said, it now feels like a "snowball fight". It feels like an ill-considered change that demonstrates a lack of understanding of who the players are and how this would affect their enjoyment.

Right now I'm not playing because im hoping to "vote" against the change in the player data. But I miss my daily dose of ARAM matches and really wish you (Riot) would restore the mode to what it was before - a fun and addicting, fast paced game without the ridiculous snowballs.

Just because you CAN do something (because the snowballs existed from the Poro mode) doesn't mean you SHOULD.

lightdragoon8810 votes

Same here.

Hope this boycott of the mode shows Riot that the snowball really ruined it for a lot of players.

Penta Penguin1 votes

Go ahead and "boycott" while decent people begin playing more ARAM matches than they have before, I'm sure you'll make a difference :^)

MiniJunkie6 votes

{quoted}

Go ahead and "boycott" while decent people begin playing more ARAM matches than they have before, I'm sure you'll make a difference :^)

Not sure what "decent" is and why you assume I'm not (I am), and you might be right. So be it.

MiniJunkie12 votes

IMO this isn't a "change is hard" situation. There was a significant change to healing that ARAM players embraced because it improved the mode. Mark/dash does not. It dramatically alters the dynamic of the mode and turns it into something that is frankly just sillier and kinda stupid. As players we trust Riot to have better judgement than this,

I also honestly don't think the folks against this change are the vocal minority, but Riot will have data to determine that - which is why I have stopped playing for now. And to be clear that effectively means not playing League at all, because for me League = ARAM.

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