Am I the only here, who think Zed should be deeply nerfed?

Rydeer··9 votes·1,149 views

So, just a short post... Every time i play against zed (not exactly in lane, just against like teams), he is always OP as hell. No one of my team's midlaners can even counter it. In the mid-game, he is getting more powerful, and if a little time spends, he'll be undestroyable. Now, I searched for some infos, checked his spells, ulti, passive, checked like everything, and now, I think it is a "bit" overpowered. I am in low-elo, so primarily Im asking High-elo players, do you think Zed is op? Cuz i don't know how often they use assassins in high-elo, and im curious. There's a poll, and everyone, vote your thinkings. And also looking for plans and advices to counter this beast. Thanks for answers, one luv

21 Comments

Dynikus4 votes

exhaust or barrier zhonya's kayle, lissandra, cho, lulu, vlad, etc

Tentacle Advisor4 votes

Personally speaking, (and don't hate me for this Zed mains), I don't think he's op. I believe he's strong when played by the right people, yes. But I don't think he's op. Op would imply there is no way to stop him or that it's nearly impossible to stop him. However, Zed, like most other champions have some exploitable weakness. Someone in this thread stated the following:

{quoted} exhaust or barrier zhonya's kayle, lissandra, cho, lulu, vlad, etc

Basically anything or anyone who can make Zed's ult a non-factor can beat him or hold him off. If Zed can't kill anything, he will fall behind. The thing about him is that, as the game goes on, he starts to fall off because his patterns at that point should be noticeable. (i.e. get in, kill someone, dip) So long as he can't do that, he's basically a non-factor.

TL;DR - Zed isn't op. Strong, yes. Op, no. You beat him by countering his ult and his roams.

Mr Broken Wings4 votes

He is not op, he is just REALLY REALLY REALLY frustrating to deal with WHEN he gets ahead. If he doesnt get an early kill ( and this is managable if you are not getting outplayed from a melee earlygame) then he is damn useless. BUT if he manages to get going playing against him feels really really awful. Removal of the qss interaction with his ult was one of the biggest mistakes riot did in a long time. I mean if it gets to the point where he builds duskblade and ults a squishy with 2-0 stats and ONLY aas and presses e ( what will hit when he ults 100%) and then oneshots the squishy its just unfun because it feels like he just grabbed free gold from you. Tldr: bring qss interaction back, that made him 1000x less aids when ahead.

bijandairy3 votes

Zed is no where near op right now lol.

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

You spelled "deleted" wrong in your poll.

Support Bοt2 votes

He is one of champions that even when fall back in early they still grow in strenght very fast (getting kills as zed is just too easy).

VenomousNecro1 votes

He's getting changed in the assassin rework

Michael Sykes1 votes

he definitely is not going to be changed much - has been confirmed by Riot

420 grams1 votes

I think the only thing he needs is to either not be able to change with his w shadow, or only change once. Otherwise it's a pretty bs engage and safe escape

Bootleg Gay5 votes

He can only switch once anyways....

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

youre never the only one with a bad idea, someone else always has the same terrible idea as you

WaterTribe1 votes

Yes nerf him please, he isn't broken but he is OP. He lacks counterplay (those who says CC him isn't the answer as any non-tank who gets cc'd will die). He is allowed to delete the ADC without any repercussions, he has:

  • Long range poke
  • CC in the form of multiple slows (potentially)
  • Wave clear
  • Sustained damage
  • Burst damage
  • Invulnerability
  • Escape (2)
  • Gap closer (2)
  • An execute (Passive and ult)
  • AOE damage (small AOE but it's still there with the potential to cover more areas)
  • % Damage
  • An item which was essentially made for him (item 3147 )
  • High ratios.

Also, with the Nerfs to QSS it allows ADCs to get deleted, their only saving grace is their support but only a select few like: Soraka Janna Lulu etc. Which results in all the other supports like the tanky ones useless when an enemy team has Zed. Obviously the tanky ones can peel to some extent but that would mean they will ALWAYS have to stick to their ADC and not waste their cooldowns on anytihng else (engaging etc). He is just very oppressive to the bot lane.

Also, Zhonya got a huge nerf, the stasis cooldown was increased and the AP was gutted.

He isn't broken, he is just VERY unhealthy for the game and Riot do not care. That's why he is banned so often because people just cannot be bothered to deal with him.

Frankey881 votes

you realize other champs build duskblade and other champs delete adc, thats what assassin do they delete a squishy

WaterTribe1 votes

No. Other assassins has counters.

Talon = Pink/sweeping LB = locket I can say the rest but I'm sure you get the idea.

Zhonya is the only thing that can help but with its long cd and high price. Stacking MR against AP assassins works, stacking armour against Zed does not work.

Frankey881 votes

diana doesnt really have a counter, ive seen diana still delete an assassin even when she did shit all in lane, point is zed isnt good, assassin will always deleted the adc and thats how it should be, if your team lets an assassin in the close you just suck

WaterTribe1 votes

Well technically Diana isn't an assassin. She is classed as a Fighter/Mage. Yes I do agree though she is pretty BS but with MR she becomes irrelevant. Also, her biggest counterplay is the fact that she doesn't have an escape. Once she commits it's either kill or die.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

Zed absolutely has counter-play potential! In lane, he has to be able to land his full combo (pre 6) in order to win the trade. Dodging the combo (namely, the q) is essential, and quite easy to do. As well, Zed has good waveclear at the expense of his escape. His q and e is not enough to waveclear well, and he must use his w, and that alone should not clear a wave instantly without the Zed being fed. As well, I do believe you undervalue the importance of CC, specifically with Zed. CC'ing Zed is not only to allow your team to kill him, but also to negate most of his damage. If a Zed ults your enemy adc, and he is cc'd for 2 seconds (which is a reasonable amount of time) and unable to pull his combo off, Zed does significantly less damage. As well, your comment about him being banned all the time is not entirely true. In higher elos he is not banned because everyone there does know how to properly counter Zed.

Also, to address your first post:

  • Zed's long range poke is very unreliable and predictable with a high cd.

  • 1 slow that is conditional, not very long, and weak isn't really effective cc...

  • Again, Zed's waveclear has a long cd and requires the use of his w, and that means he can easily be out-traded after he uses it.

  • He does have some sustained damage, but not nearly enough to say his strength is sustained damage.

  • Yes, he does have burst damage, like all assassins. But the strength of his burst is conditional.

  • He is technically untargetable, not invulnerable. He does dodge skillshots and point and clicks, but he will take damage over time and such.

  • Zed does have escapes, but his escapes are very visible and very obvious.

  • Zed needs a gapcloser. All assassins do otherwise they can't get to the target.

  • The execute is part of his kit. It gives him the damage necessary to kill the enemy.

  • The e is aoe, but it's not strong by any means.

  • Yes, he does have percent damage, and again, it's part of his kit.

  • Duskblade is extremely good on Zed, and while some intention of the item was made for him, this doesn't mean it isn't equally as good on other champions, such as Talon and Rengar. And again, if we're saying the item is made for him, then saying Zhonyas is meant to counter him is a fair statement as well.

  • His high ratios allow him to do something towards late game, because if he didn't have high ratios, he wouldn't do much damage.

  • While qss no longer prevents the Zed ult, Guardian's Angel is an amazing choice against Zed as an adc. As well, any support with large cc still negates most, if not all of Zed's damage output.

All this being said, I am not saying Zed is weak by any means, oh no. I am saying he is not nearly as strong as others think him to be. He is a balanced champion with available counterplay at hand, with the potential to do very well with proper play. By the way, if it helps, I am a Zed main, so I do have at least some idea of his state. ;) Hope this helps with knowing how to counter him, or at least explaining his abilities and state in the game.

WaterTribe1 votes

I understand what you are trying to say but it still doesn't change the fact that he has access to all these types of power and making them sound weaker than they actually are is silly. Try compare it with another midlaner and see how many boxes they tick from that. His kit is very over loaded and unfair, I think he needs to lose some of these mechanics and put power into where he shines the most (or more power to help him get to shine).

As of now at level 4 when you try to get farm he does w q e (tld procs) almost half hp gone, then he w in and AA your face (if he feels secure enough to go in) then ignite, dead.

Every 20 secs he can spam his w q e combo and it deals so much damage it's so lame.

By sustained damage, although it can be used offensively I meant that it is good for sieging, taking towers very quickly (which he does with his waveclear when the other midlaner isn't in lane).

Yes GA is good, but what is the CD of it? Lets say 30% CDR with Zed is 56 sec CD on ult vs a 300 sec cd on GA. He can ult almost 6 times before it comes back up.

Possible nerfs (and/or):

  • I just looked at an in depth guide for Zed and saw that he has another AD scaling ratio on his W. Really??? Remove it.

  • Make his passive deal %Missing health not Maximum.

  • Shadow ability should not restore energy. Zed doesn't struggle with resources compared to Akali/Shen/Kennen.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

The nerfs you're suggesting aren't actually that bad, but Zed isn't strong by any means. If his kit were truly overloaded, he'd be a contested pick in pro play, which he is not at all. Right now, the strongest mid laners overall are burst/control mages, such as Vladimir, Ryze, Swain, Azir, Viktor etc.

I am not undermining Zed's damage at all, nor am I undermining his maneuverability and access to power. But his unique kit gives him the potential to burst many champions, as well as potentially be punished if not done right. Despite what many will say, he does have a high-risk/high-reward play.

Zed can dominate the game and his lane if not played against properly, and I feel like you, and many others, are still unaware of his weakness, particularly in his laning phase with his w e q combo. I want to address this the most:

Zed's w e q combo is his bread and butter for trading in laning phase. It has the potential to do a significant amount of damage, or it can do almost nothing. The key to beating it is dodging the q's, which are not as hard as you think. You should never be able to dodge the w e portion, otherwise the Zed is god-awful. But Zed's q is actually generally very predictable. I find the best way to maximize the dodge is: once the w e hits, move back and to one side, then quickly shift over to the other side. It sounds simple, but works on most Zeds. You move back to try and make it harder for the q Zed himself is throwing to hit you. You move to one side originally to make it look like you are going there, then shift to dodge the q's. It doesn't work 100% of the time, obviously, but it's a pretty good shot. Finally, all of this is assuming you have no engage and are a long range mage, in which after you dodge most of the damage, you trade back.

If you are an assassin who can engage, however, you use a different approach:

Once Zed uses his shadow, his e will most likely be instant, quickly followed by q. This is a mistake a lot of Zeds make when facing other assassins, but one that can be easily punished. Each assassin has their own unique way of outplaying it, but the general way to do so is to engage the moment you see his shadow, as most Zeds unleash their full combo instantly and don't expect to be engaged upon. Even, let's say, you can't dodge both q's and his e, you will (generally, if you engage) only take damage from one e, the q Zed himself shoots out (in which the damage is mitigated by hitting at least one minion) and an aa + passive and thunderlords. This may sound like a lot, but it's not, because once the other Assassin engages, Zed's combo is down and the damage coming from it was reduced significantly.

Again, I am not saying Zed is weak, but he is a very balanced champion who has a unique kit that is not overloaded or overpowered in any sense. With the right counterplay, he can be rendered useless.

Frankey881 votes

hes not een strong right now, nerfing him would be pointless, also he has a reworking coming out soon

Frankey881 votes

his win rate in like 47% , theres sooo many other mids with a lot better stats

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