How do you actually beat garen?

MysteriousBootie·Sep 6, 2015·3 votes·20,383 views

No matter who I play as, everytime I have to deal with a garen in top lane I always get pushed around. Feels like he can just keep Qing and Eing me down no matter what I do, and on top of being tanky, and dealing so much damage, he's also one of the fastest tanks I've ever seen. Just to avoid death, I try to farm under the turret, but sometimes the garen can just run over and all-in me. He eats up turret shots like a champ, so even that feels like a gamble. When I try to harass with ranged champs, he can heal out of combat at worst, and he can easily buildup armor + MR simply by last hitting minions like normal.

I have no idea how you're supposed to win lane against him. Tips?

32 Comments

UltraSceptileSep 6, 20152 votes

In lane or in teamfights?

In lane there is no counter, just try not to get analled.

Teamfights is the same deal, except if you pick vayne you win.

That's playing against garen 101 hope he gets nerfed.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20154 votes

{quoted} In lane there is no counter, just try not to get analled.

not sure if serious. he doesnt even really counter riven in lane. a good riven vs a good garen will be a skill matchup as she can kite him around with her stun, knockup and absorb damage the damage from his q with her shield.

he has a lot of hard counters, some skill matchups and a handful that are easy for him.

ive recently beat garens with heimerdinger, swain, and ekko without even playing those champions usually. there are a lot more matchups that are terrible for him.

UltraSceptileSep 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XFBvc6Mi,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-09-06T15:13:39.302+0000)

not sure if serious. he doesnt even really counter riven in lane. a good riven vs a good garen will be a skill matchup as she can kite him around with her stun, knockup and absorb damage with her shield.

THat's not countering. That's called going even if the Riven is better than the garen. Much better.

Not dying is not countering. I can survive in lane against yasuo as twisted fate, twisted fate does not counter yasuo.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

THat's not countering. That's called going even if the Riven is better than the garen. Much better.

Not dying is not countering. I can survive in lane against yasuo as twisted fate, twisted fate does not counter yasuo.

a good riven can evade his all in, then turn on him and kill him when his spin is on cooldown. a bad riven gets countered by garen. a good riven vs a good garen will be on equal ground. and they can actually kill each other.

there are other, more strategical options to beat him in lane. like making him use his spin on your creeps to trade with you, forcing him to push, overextend and making himself vulnerable to ganks.

UltraSceptileSep 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XFBvc6Mi,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-06T15:18:33.329+0000)

a good riven can evade his all in, then turn on him and kill him when his spin is on cooldown. a bad riven gets countered by garen. a good riven vs a good garen will be on equal ground. and they can actually kill each other.

No if they're both good Garen builds tank and becomes unkillable and Riven tries to roam because she has to snowball, while neither getting a kill on each other. Garen is garenteed to become a massive threat to the enemy adc because not a single one except vayne can kite him even with a support, while unless Riven's desperate roams work out very, VERY well he wins.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No if they're both good Garen builds tank and becomes unkillable and Riven tries to roam because she has to snowball, while neither getting a kill on each other. Garen is garenteed to become a massive threat to the enemy adc because not a single one except vayne can kite him even with a support, while unless Riven's desperate roams work out very, VERY well he wins.

a good riven will be able to jump around him and poke him down.

they will usually go in, hit him with w + auto attack , and one 2 or q's and dash out of his silence with their e. they are very well able to poke him down and kill him and snowball before hes able to get tanky. its a skill matchup.

your usual riven will just get smashed by him, but experienced mains will be able to fight and trade with him on equal ground. even against experienced garne players.

ive played that matchup countless times and have experienced both types of players.

my last game against a garen i went 7/2 against him on assassin ekko. ive played the champion maybe 3 times up to that point.

UltraSceptileSep 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XFBvc6Mi,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-06T15:25:08.689+0000)

a good riven will be able to jump around him and poke him down.

they will usually go in, hit him with w + auto attack , and one 2 or q's and dash out of his silence with their e. they are very well able to poke him down and kill him and snowball before hes able to get tanky. its a skill matchup.

your usual riven will just get smashed by him, but experienced mains will be able to fight him.

So a counter to garen would be to one trick pony Riven and even then they have to whittle garen down little bit by little bit because garen just stacks armor?

Doesn't seem like a really good kind of counter.

Unless Garen is braindead or gets camped he's not going to die to Riven simply because at worst he can just back off at tower for a couple of seconds and regen half the damage she dealt to him.

Picking RIven into garen isn't a counter. It's "I'm literally 10 times better than you Garen and I could've picked full AP taric and beat you.", which I don't think OP is looking for.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So a counter to garen would be to one trick pony Riven and even then they have to whittle garen down little bit by little bit because garen just stacks armor?

no you dont understand the point im trying to make. riven is a champion garen is supposed to counter. but even experienced rivens will be able to handle experienced garens.

because she has a much larger power spike than him lvl 1 to lvl 4, and at lvl 6.

there are many more champions that can straight up beat him in lane without much efford.

UltraSceptileSep 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XFBvc6Mi,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-06T15:31:50.943+0000)

no you dont understand the point im trying to make. riven is a champion garen is supposed to counter. but even experienced rivens will be able to handle experienced garens.

because she has a much larger power spike than him lvl 1 to lvl 4.

there are many more champions that can straight up beat him in lane without much efford.

I have never seen a lane where Garen can just outright lose. He just builds full tank and farms in the back. It's not like how Riven counters yasuo, she can just jump him and burst him every time he tries to CS, and it's not like how zed can just rape twisted fate at every stage of the game.

Even before his weakness was a peeling support, like lulu thresh or janna who can just infinitely keep him off your adc. In lane I have yet to see a lane where if the garen is at least competent he still gets destroyed.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have never seen a lane where Garen can just outright lose. He just builds full tank and farms in the back. It's not like how Riven counters yasuo, she can just jump him and burst him every time he tries to CS, and it's not like how zed can just rape twisted fate at every stage of the game.

Even before his weakness was a peeling support, like lulu thresh or janna who can just infinitely keep him off your adc. In lane I have yet to see a lane where if the garen is at least competent he still gets destroyed.

actually she can do that with garen, since garen isnt very tanky before he bought his first items.

rivens lvl 4 powerspike is large enough that she can all in cheese him.

the rework reduced his base health, removed tenacity from his w, reduced the silence duration, he got his base ms and the ms on his q nerfed. his spin deals less damage until lvl 7. his w doesnt grant resitances from runes and masteries from the first second on. he has to farm it up.

they tuned basically everything about his early game down to give him more damage on his spin lategame, and the villain mechanic.

people were able to beat him in lane before the rework. youre telling me it somehow now became harder?

i gave you multiple examples of champions that beat him and even how you beat him strategically in lane.

bladeofthelegionApr 8, 20162 votes

I know this is an old post but I just found it randomly so I figured I would tell you what to do vs garen. Just a heads up I mained garen in season 4 and got a garen pentakill in preseason 5 so I have played him quite a bit. Garen gets crapped on by darius big time. You need to hit q if you miss a few to many you could lose pressure but 9/10 you will wreck. Keep in mind jungle pressure can kill you but just ward up.

Dogster99Apr 25, 20161 votes

I see every darius on my team getting rekt by Garen tho :/

Sakura MirageSep 6, 20151 votes

You beat him by being more useful than him in team fights if you get lots of cc down you become more useful than a garen that has 1 form if you kill their backbone you become more useful if you do it faster than him etc.

TyroneWatermelonSep 6, 20151 votes

my conclutions: Fight him-you will 100% lose unless you are riven or vayne main. Dont fight him-you will miss tons of farm and if you only try to your anus is his. Ask a jungler gank-pressing 2 buttons helps him; 1.remove slows and gain movement speed 2.reduce percent damage though already being tanky. Build tanky armor,you have no damage,his sustained dmg will outscale you and kill you with ult. build tanky magic resist- he still deals tons of dmg with his godamn scalings and early game. build tanky both-you have no dmg,congrats. Win lane-PREPARE URANUS half hp his ult will kill you.

CppLSep 6, 20151 votes

You dont.You pick meele champ? everytime you go cs he"s just gonna Q+E combo.If you ranged and try to poke him? Np Doran shield+passive after like 15s you came back with full hp.You cant beat him ,you focus on teamfights+tp.

RoundPiplupSep 6, 20151 votes

Don't try to fight him when his ultimate passive is targeting on you. Every time I tried to fight Garen when the ultimate passive targeted me, I always get defeated because of that true damage(doesn't even matter if you're fed, that true damage will destroy those that aren't building tank).

Just try to out farm him, you can't win trades from most champions that fights against Garen in top lane(unless if you're good enough to get away from his q+e combo). But this is based on near my elo. Usually the Garens in my elo gets out farmed by a lot for those that get pretty aggressive on trying to land that combo on their opponent.

TreeofwarSep 6, 20151 votes

he loses to people such as cho, morde, and kennen.

KONO RUBICK DASep 6, 20151 votes

Gnar Lissandra Vladimir (skill matchup) Zac (getting nerfed) Trundle Chogath Jayce

LadyRenlySep 6, 20151 votes

"just kite him in the pink ward xD"

Dead mans plate and boots of swiftness say hi.

Honestly, I'd probably try my best to screw over his team and hope that one man alone cannot carry the entire team

3TWarriorSep 6, 20151 votes

this is where things get awkward...based on peoples' descriptions of the new Garen, new Garen is the exact reason old Mordekaiser was chosen to be reworked. A bully in lane with a very predictable playstyle and not much to offer to the team overall and of course, no fun for the opponent to play against other than that mordekaiser was a rare pick

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

this is where things get awkward...based on peoples' descriptions of the new Garen, new Garen is the exact reason old Mordekaiser was chosen to be reworked. A bully in lane with a very predictable playstyle and not much to offer to the team overall and of course, no fun for the opponent to play against other than that mordekaiser was a rare pick

his laning after the rework is significantly weaker until around lvl 7. they nerfed a lot of his early game to give him the villain mechanic and allow him to scale into lategame.

hes by no means a lane bully anymore. and if people would fight him with his cooldowns in mind they usually should beat him in trades early on.

3TWarriorSep 6, 20151 votes

though you also have to consider that by using his Q movespeed + E, he can rush in and deal damage without attracting the ire of minions, then retreat and heal off a large amount of damage once his passive kicks in and unless the lane is shoved, you won't be close enough to tower to farm underneath it

Poop JellySep 6, 20151 votes

I pick ranged top champs, they excel at kiting out garen. Also I've seen GP, Fiora, and Shyvana top did fine against Garen. But sadly, all the champs I listed are "in meta" champs, none of which really brings out diversity for all top laner candidates.

Troy242621Sep 6, 20151 votes

Honestly not trying to be funny here. Ban phase. Yes, he has counterplay. Yes, you can beat him. If the enemy top laner picks him, you're at an immediate disadvantage.

Critmaster GarenSep 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Honestly not trying to be funny here. Ban phase. Yes, he has counterplay. Yes, you can beat him. If the enemy top laner picks him, you're at an immediate disadvantage.

that is simply not true lol. there are enough melee champs that can straight up beat him.

from my experience, people are just too afraid to actually fight him BEFORE his powerspike at lvl 10. they will play extremely careful against you from lvl 1 on when you dont even pose a serious threat yet.

while garens spin isnt available, his actual damage is abysmal. thats what a lot of people dont realize. theyre running away from him even when his spin is on cooldown.

bait it out, then all in him, and draw back before its back up. thats how you beat him with melees.

O Fallen ScholarSep 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No matter who I play as, everytime I have to deal with a garen in top lane I always get pushed around. Feels like he can just keep Qing and Eing me down no matter what I do, and on top of being tanky, and dealing so much damage, he's also one of the fastest tanks I've ever seen. Just to avoid death, I try to farm under the turret, but sometimes the garen can just run over and all-in me. He eats up turret shots like a champ, so even that feels like a gamble. When I try to harass with ranged champs, he can heal out of combat at worst, and he can easily buildup armor + MR simply by last hitting minions like normal.

I have no idea how you're supposed to win lane against him. Tips?

Just picked Quinn and stomped him so hard he even wasted his TP for nothing. Quinn is actally destorying most juggernauts. And even Riven.

LovelleSep 7, 20151 votes

Trundle can still beat him 1v1, but Garen will outperform him after the laning phase due to his new mechanics.

KONO RUBICK DASep 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Trundle can still beat him 1v1, but Garen will outperform him after the laning phase due to his new mechanics.

what? trundle can steal 40 AD, 24% of your armor/mr and health he can slow you (can't remove an aoe slow) and speed himself

how garen can outperform him? trundle is one of the best late game bruiser

LovelleSep 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

what? trundle can steal 40 AD, 24% of your armor/mr and health he can slow you (can't remove an aoe slow) and speed himself

how garen can outperform him? trundle is one of the best late game bruiser

Garen is a better teamfighter and has a much easier time killing key targets. Trundle is all auto-attacks and zero burst. Trundle is still decent, but as it stands Garen and Darius are both stronger than he is right now. They both have a much easier time building tanky and doing crazy burst damage to carries and tanks alike. In contrast, Trundle is only good at killing tanks, but even his ult is no match for their true damage when comparing how fast they take out targets (i.e. Both Garen and Darius have the capacity to kill a Vayne, while Trundle has zero chances of doing this all game).

Late game and 1v1, Trundle can beat them both, but not easily enough to give his team a complete advantage (at least not while they're over-tuned). Unfortunately, 1v1s don't win games.

Dogster99Apr 25, 20161 votes

Teemo counters him and so does udyr