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LP based on solo performance

iSmellGG··5 votes·1,308 views

I believe that the community will be better if players are checked based on individual performance.

Doing very good in a team but still losing LP because the team loses is just unfair specially for people who solo ques, like me.

Other people who trolls ( very often on low rank ) think that "if I feed it is okay because the whole team loses anyways". I mean, this should not be the case. if an individual is going to fail by himself, let him fail alone.

playing a game that is already GG is just dumb. When your team is 5-40 and the team is just doing whatever they want, is just a waste of time. But, again if it is based on solo performance the losing team will not think of surrendering or feeding to end the game fast, rather they might try and get themselves have better KDA to improve LP.

Also, people who practice new champs do this. They que in ranked and if they do not get the position they want (even though we are already entitled to only 2 positions) they still pick the new champ that they want to play and play it in a very unpleasant way. e.g Taliyah as support just because he/ she got qued support.

In general I dont think people will try to think to feed and or troll if they have a chance to rank up even if they think they will not win.

P.S. this is not only on based on KDA. could be cs, rotation or even pathing simple skills like that. it may be hard for the programmers to do this but i think it is time that we deserve what we get. I want to play with plats and diamonds to improve my gaming, but it is hard in this kind of community.

48 Comments

Eedat5 votes

NO.

That would be the hands down worst change they could make. Period.

There is absolutely no way to quantify someones solo performance. There are just WAY too many variables that would go unaccounted for. Theres no way to quantify a clutch thresh lantern that saved someone. Theres no way to quantify a clutch bard ult that stopped your team from getting aced at baron. Theres no way to quantify flashing in front of a Cait ult to save your team mate. The list could go on and on and on. You can't just look at kills and CS. Theres no way to quantify a 20/6/15 ADC facechecking a bush 40 minutes in and losing the game because of it. "BUT MUH KDA"

Just think of what it would do to solo que. Nobody would ever play utility supports. Nobody would ever play utility top laners or junglers. Every role would be damage because "GOTTA GET DEM KILLS". Nobody would ever work together and would just run around chasing kills the entire game.

TL;DR There are millions of variables that would go unaccounted for and soloque would become absolutely unbearable and unplayable

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

NO.

That would be the hands down worst change they could make. Period.

There is absolutely no way to quantify someones solo performance. There are just WAY too many variables that would go unaccounted for. Theres no way to quantify a clutch thresh lantern that saved someone. Theres no way to quantify a clutch bard ult that stopped your team from getting aced at baron. Theres no way to quantify flashing in front of a Cait ult to save your team mate. The list could go on and on and on. You can't just look at kills and CS. Theres no way to quantify a 20/6/15 ADC facechecking a bush 40 minutes in and losing the game because of it. "BUT MUH KDA"

Just think of what it would do to solo que. Nobody would ever play utility supports. Nobody would ever play utility top laners or junglers. Every role would be damage because "GOTTA GET DEM KILLS". Nobody would ever work together and would just run around chasing kills the entire game.

TL;DR There are millions of variables that would go unaccounted for and soloque would become absolutely unbearable and unplayable

THERE ARE ALOT OF VARIABLES! i know! they should work on it! yes 20/6/15 ADC facechecking a bush is a mistake. we are not perfect we saw it this year's MSI! but what im saying is that RIOT should make a way to quantify those variables! it sounds impossible but i know it can be done! those "unquantifiable" things that you are saying are the main reason they are not doing a solo que performance? i dont think thats reasonable.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

No, it is literally impossible to quantify and implement a system right now. The thing you have to realize is that riot is actively balancing the game. If they ran a regression on all the games this patch and found out securing a fire dragon was worth x and securing an air dragon was worth y, what do you think they are going to do with that data? They will actively make changes in the next patch so that the two dragons are worth the same. This means that all of their hard work quantifying the value of an action (securing a fire dragon) all of a sudden becomes worthless next patch because all of the values change.

Any attempt at quantifying the value of actions will instantly be invalid because they reflect how the game was in the past and now how the game in now.

well, we get ranked for solo performance right? like from B-S+ now right? what is their basis on that one?

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Some random forumla which has no bearing on how well you actually do. Why do you think no one puts any value in those ranks?

well, you know what there is not point in arguing if you think you know it all. no one puts value in those ranks because you can get it when you play BOT/AI (i think) even in normals not because it has a random formula with no bearings. im pretty sure they do have some sort of basis. and they should focus more on that to be implemented for solo performance review instead of just winning or losing.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

They were designed to get players skins and taunt icons. What do you expect from them? Also, did you know that every player on a team gets the exact same amount of mastery points regardless of the rank they get in game? That's right, the ranking systems are so random and inaccurate that riot won't even let it effect how many mastery points a player gets in normal games. What makes you think it is anywhere near acceptable to be used for ranked?

Another think you have to realize, riot has no way of implementing any sort of formula for determining solo performance while they are actively balancing the game. The same numbers which are being used to identify solo performance are also being used to balance the game. The two actions of balancing the game and creating a formula for solo performance are literally mutually exclusive.

NO! i mean the S+ thing you get after the game? not he mastery level of a champ! im pretty sure that that is based from some criteria and not just KDA.

I know they do, but they have to step up on individual scoring.

Okay then just respond to this.

_I was on a winning streak and last game my corki did 15/10/13 our mid azir did 12/10/7 our jungler yi did 13/8/7 but our top teemo (4/13/3) trolled and feed people and stayed beside baron pit for a good 30mins and our oriana AFKed 30 mins into the game. the 3 of us were doing so well that the other team managed to finish the game in 44:21 (super long game for a 3v5). where is the justice in there? solo performance is a better way to check player's stats. this game should not be based only on winning. _

why does that deserve for me to lose LP? because we lost? thats unfair

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, I know the random letter that is assigned to players at the end of the game. That letter does not correlate to solo performance in any way. In fact, it has been shown to be such a poor judge of performance that riot doesn't even use it for champion mastery in normal. Why the hell do you think it is good enough to use in ranked?

Also, the problem you described is being fixed by the afk loss forgiven system which is being tested on the public beta environment. That is a far better system than using the grade which honestly does not correlate to solo performance.

Lastly, you still fail to address the problem that riot has no way of determining solo performance. Riot has no way of implementing any sort of formula for determining solo performance while they are actively balancing the game. The same numbers which are being used to identify solo performance are also being used to balance the game. The two actions of balancing the game and creating a formula for solo performance are literally mutually exclusive.

WTF?! IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU BALANCE THE GAME COZ YOU DO NOT CONTROL EVERYONE! ONE COULD BE PRACTICING/PLAYING A CHAMP FOR THE FIRST TIME! ON COULD BE HAVING A BAD TIME AND JUST WANTS TO TROLL! ITS NOT ABOUT THE GAME! ITS ABOUT THE PLAYERS!? dont you get my point here?! you are all about balancing the game? LETS SAY IT IS 100% balance to the point that all champs are lucian.. thats balanced enough i think. who cares, if a player wants to troll and feed, it doesnt matter how balance the game is, that team with a troll will lose! now, if there cant be a formula to make a solo performance! they should atleast make a formula to know who is trolling/ feeding and ATLEAST void the game and not lose LP for losing the game. get it?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

You still aren't getting the point. The problem is that riot cannot develop a formula to determine solo play while they are actively balancing the game. Again: "Riot has no way of implementing any sort of formula for determining solo performance while they are actively balancing the game. The same numbers which are being used to identify solo performance are also being used to balance the game. The two actions of balancing the game and creating a formula for solo performance are literally mutually exclusive."

If riot stopped actively balancing the game, riot can develop a formula to determine how much each individual player contributed and reward lp based off of that. Until then, it is impossible to determine how much each player contributes with a computerized algorithm.

You can't just say that ranked needs to be based off of individual performance when you don't even know how to determine each player's individual performance.

then stop balancing the game and determine the formula to determine how much each individual player contribute. when have a formula then they can start "balancing" the game again. all you are trying to say is that they can not do it coz they are balancing the game? come on. that is so lame. if 100% of the team are balancing the game then do 50% balancing and 50% developing a formula for solo performance check.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

You can't do 50/50. The two actions are mutually exclusive. If you make any balance changes, you invalidate any formulas which are created. Creating a formula and then balancing after doesn't work either because the formula becomes invalidated the second there is a balance change.

The only way to establish a formula is to stop balance changes altogether and then never make another balance change.

cant they balance and the adjust the numbers for solo performance? i dont get it.. is it impossible or is it just too much work?

Angry Monster1 votes

wow, you are one of those that believe that the mastery system really means something.

iSmellGG1 votes

are you one of those trolls/feeders?

Darth Sidiouss1 votes

{quoted}

NO.

That would be the hands down worst change they could make. Period.

There is absolutely no way to quantify someones solo performance. There are just WAY too many variables that would go unaccounted for. Theres no way to quantify a clutch thresh lantern that saved someone. Theres no way to quantify a clutch bard ult that stopped your team from getting aced at baron. Theres no way to quantify flashing in front of a Cait ult to save your team mate. The list could go on and on and on. You can't just look at kills and CS. Theres no way to quantify a 20/6/15 ADC facechecking a bush 40 minutes in and losing the game because of it. "BUT MUH KDA"

Just think of what it would do to solo que. Nobody would ever play utility supports. Nobody would ever play utility top laners or junglers. Every role would be damage because "GOTTA GET DEM KILLS". Nobody would ever work together and would just run around chasing kills the entire game.

TL;DR There are millions of variables that would go unaccounted for and soloque would become absolutely unbearable and unplayable

The S rank isnt just KDA its team participation as well, if the ranked system was more focused on individual skill we would have a more healthy system in general it would justify someones effort despite ANOTHER PLAYER messing the match up. Wouldn't it be nice to know that if you truly did everything perfectly despite someone feeding 0 11 3 top you can still get some sort of riot pat on the back sorta speak ?

DrCyanide2 votes

A 0/11/3 Singed could be just what won you the game by constantly distracting the enemy team.

Champion mastery relies on quantifiable factors. "Died saving the ADC so they could push and end the game" isn't a quantifiable factor and shows worse on your champion mastery, despite being the game winning factor.

I wish there was a better way to sort players, but there just isn't. It has to be on if the team won or lost.

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

A 0/11/3 Singed could be just what won you the game by constantly distracting the enemy team.

Champion mastery relies on quantifiable factors. "Died saving the ADC so they could push and end the game" isn't a quantifiable factor and shows worse on your champion mastery, despite being the game winning factor.

I wish there was a better way to sort players, but there just isn't. It has to be on if the team won or lost.

I wish i was a game programer so I'll find a formula to quantify everything and make millions! dang it!

SrbLud3 votes

It's a team game. You're part of a team. Your teamwork skills are what matters most.

iSmellGG1 votes

what about players that jsut trolls/feeds? im just saying winning shouldnt be everything

SrbLud1 votes

There are allways trolls and feeders in any game. It's a variable we can't controll.

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

There are allways trolls and feeders in any game. It's a variable we can't controll.

exactly! you cant control how others play so it should be solo performance.

SrbLud1 votes

then your only option is some nonexisting 1v1 ranked

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

then your only option is some nonexisting 1v1 ranked

or solo performance based games

SrbLud1 votes

Thats impossible in team games. You never know with whom you're playing with.

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Thats impossible in team games. You never know with whom you're playing with.

what are you talking about? you dont know whom you're playing with (new champ testers, trolls, feeders) so it is only fair they based ranking on solo performance.

Bud Light1 votes

if it was based on that then it could easily be abused

iSmellGG1 votes

how so?

BluePolarizer3 votes

if I am 3-0 right now I am going to roam, try to make plays and save my team.

If I fail though, and there's always the risk of failure, I would die and reduce my KDA. I'll also lose CS if I am roaming.

Why would I ever try to save my team if I can just AFK farm and hide from every fight to preserve my KDA and increase my CS until we can surrender?

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

if I am 3-0 right now I am going to roam, try to make plays and save my team.

If I fail though, and there's always the risk of failure, I would die and reduce my KDA. I'll also lose CS if I am roaming.

Why would I ever try to save my team if I can just AFK farm and hide from every fight to preserve my KDA and increase my CS until we can surrender?

on the other hand, why would you surrender if you are winning like that? if your teamates are losing then they wont surrender and try to improve their score, which will force you to help them and win the game.

BluePolarizer1 votes

because 3-0 isn't enough to carry the game solo.

why would I risk allowing my score to possibly drop? if they are getting stomped I'm not going anywhere near their fed lane opponents. And if they are getting stomped, its better to cut losses and surrender than to lose even more LP with an even lower KDA.

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

because 3-0 isn't enough to carry the game solo.

why would I risk allowing my score to possibly drop? if they are getting stomped I'm not going anywhere near their fed lane opponents. And if they are getting stomped, its better to cut losses and surrender than to lose even more LP with an even lower KDA.

well, you know what? if you did well and the others decided to stop the game then good for you.. i mean farming and staying away from danger is actually a smart decision rather than roaming and helping other lanes that you are not communicating with? you know what i mean? AFK farming is not even bad in that case you will increase LP but only gain a few coz it is an early surrender? see things like that.. how will people abuse that? if you do that all the time you only gain a few LP each time you play. thats a fair deal to me.. instead of doing good and get nothing, even worse lose LP.

Darth Sidiouss1 votes

Team participation is in relation in earning an S rank its not just the KDA, ive had matches where i had like 21 5 7 and i didnt get S because i was never with my team.

iSmellGG1 votes

I was on a winning streak and last game my corki did 15/10/13 our mid azir did 12/10/7 our jungler yi did 13/8/7 but our top teemo (4/13/3) trolled and feed people and stayed beside baron pit for a good 30mins and our oriana AFKed 30 mins into the game. the 3 of us were doing so well that the other team managed to finish the game in 44:21 (super long game for a 3v5). where is the justice in there? solo performance is a better way to check player's stats. this game should not be based only on winning.

Sukishoo1 votes

Too bad the game has always been a TEAM game, and that will never happen :)

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Too bad the game has always been a TEAM game, and that will never happen :)

RIP solo que.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

It is impossible. Any formula created will only apply to the patch it is created on. Any balance change will invalidate formulas for solo performance created before the change.

sooo.. create a formula for solo performance and when they make a new patch, make a new formula. isnt this the solution to the problem you are pointing out?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

How do you plan on making a new one without data from the new patch? By the time you get enough data to make a formula, it is already 2-3 patches out of date.

is it really that hard? i mean the new patch does not re create the entire game anyways? just a couple of stuff right? so why would it take forever to make a new formula for the next patch?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Lol are you seriously asking if it is really that hard? Have you tried running regression models on the scale we are talking about? You need a shit ton of data points to make a formula that has any semblance of relevance, much less one which will outperform the elo model in determining player skill.

so to sum it all up, you are saying they can not do it because its too hard? :) ALL i need is a simple answer

iSmellGG1 votes

A winning team (gold lead) losses coz 1 member (thresh) wouldn't cooperate and builds full AD.. FFS! PROMOTE SOLO PERFORMANCE CHECK!

Calabok1 votes

Ain't gonna happen Fred

iSmellGG1 votes

{quoted}

Ain't gonna happen Fred

thanks but my question is why

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