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Urgot's Ultimate Can Trigger Seizures

XivaI··52 votes·16,568 views

Hi everyone! I recently submitted a support ticket about this, and they recommended I post here because the devs read the boards and can't be reached via support tickets. I don't know if this is the exact right board, but here goes. As some of you may know, about 1% of the US population has active epilepsy. Approximately 3% of those with epilepsy, have photosensitive epilepsy, which is the kind that is triggered by flashing lights or patterns. (That's why in most games, there's a warning about blinking lights, etc.) That being said, with the immense amount of people that play League, there's going to be a good amount that can have seizures triggered by flickering patterns. Due to this, I'm asking that the chain border VFX that appears for people that are getting executed by Urgot's ultimate either be removed, or a setting added where you can turn this off on your end. To those that have never seen it, an example is here. Urgot is my most played champ, and while it is a neat gimmick, it's... unnecessary. The VFX have never won me a game, fight, or provided any significant game play impact, which is why I think it'd be okay to just have a toggle in settings for if some people want to keep it they can. Hopefully someone at Riot sees this and can tell the right people, to hopefully make some of their player's days, allowing them to ban Teemo or Darius instead of Urgot.

56 Comments

Teémò8 votes

I've never went through it, but I can see how it's possible. Like if I'm on one side of the map but i get yanked almost globally by the chains because his ult bugged. [zombie-nunu-bummed] Freaked me out flying into his fountain.

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

The chains are global and that is no bug.

If you got tagged by the drill and are below the health threshold, then it doesn't matter if you are on the opposite side of the map. The second part of his ult is global, you will get dragged through the entire map into the meatgrinder.

Teémò1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-02T22:15:16.472+0000)

The chains are global and that is no bug.

If you got tagged by the drill and are below the health threshold, then it doesn't matter if you are on the opposite side of the map. The second part of his ult is global, you will get dragged through the entire map into the meatgrinder.

Thanks for the explanation.[poppy-wink]

Oleandervine6 votes

[deleted]

XivaI28 votes

{quoted}

Epilepsy is generally triggered by quick, sudden flashing or strobing. I'm not certain the chains sprawling across the edges of your screen would qualify as an epilepsy trigger, and if they do, that person who it triggers is an extreme exception to the situation, and probably shouldn't be playing a video game like League at all.

I play League with my boyfriend, and the chains sprawling across the edges of the screen triggers his epilepsy, which is what prompted me to make this post. Nothing else in League that he's encountered has triggered it, so I don't think it's that he needs to stop playing League.

Diävolo4 votes

{quoted}

I play League with my boyfriend, and the chains sprawling across the edges of the screen triggers his epilepsy, which is what prompted me to make this post. Nothing else in League that he's encountered has triggered it, so I don't think it's that he needs to stop playing League.

Maybe he had a problem or something. Its not Urgot's ultimate for sure

HoldMyPlank5 votes

That's a stretch to assume.

Jennifer4202 votes

wow... thats a weird one. i never imagined someone has a seizure from urgots ult. hope rito gives some option to turn the chains off. tho i feel even worse for your bf cause this is a really cool animation.

Yago21 votes

{quoted}

Epilepsy is generally triggered by quick, sudden flashing or strobing. I'm not certain the chains sprawling across the edges of your screen would qualify as an epilepsy trigger, and if they do, that person who it triggers is an extreme exception to the situation, and probably shouldn't be playing a video game like League at all.

Right, so, whenever you see something like this...maybe, uh, IDK...assume that the person who is asking about such a thing probably knows what they're talking about because it affects them or someone close to them?

And don't tell someone asking for an accessibility option to bugger off and deal without it.

Diävolo6 votes

Is that a joke? I mean, I'm aware of the problems and stuff but. How Urgot's ult make someone get a seizure? Its not a sudden thing. I would say Pyke's ult maybe. Darius's ult. Or Rengar jumping on you. But Urgot is... Impossible. Unless you're playing Yi and pressing R and youdidn't see his ult coming and you get grabbed in a fight without noticing.

XivaI16 votes

{quoted}

Is that a joke? I mean, I'm aware of the problems and stuff but. How Urgot's ult make someone get a seizure? Its not a sudden thing. I would say Pyke's ult maybe. Darius's ult. Or Rengar jumping on you. But Urgot is... Impossible. Unless you're playing Yi and pressing R and youdidn't see his ult coming and you get grabbed in a fight without noticing.

I mean, the chains just appear on the sides of your screen and shake. This is about the VFX on the execute, not the drill being fired and hitting you.

KalokasIsMyDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the chains just appear on the sides of your screen and shake. This is about the VFX on the execute, not the drill being fired and hitting you.

There are way flashier animations in League tbh. It's not like the chains appear THAT fast. If he gets a seizure from that shouldn't he also get one from literally any champion jumping out of a bush?

Sihari7 votes

I think the problem is not that there is something appearing fast but the way those chains move. They are so fast that the light spots (background) and darks spots (chain) seem to flicker, while the animation plays.

XxXGwanXxX18 votes

"I know better than you how YOUR boyfriend reacts to HIS seizures"

is what you are basically sayign right now. If you think epilepsy is the same and appears the same for everyone affected by it you are truly ignorant and your opinion is frankly completly invalid.

Just because you don't understand how it could happen because you have literally no medical knowledge doesn't make it imposible. Unless you are an actual Doctor with an actual diploma, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about

XivaI8 votes

{quoted}

There are way flashier animations in League tbh. It's not like the chains appear THAT fast. If he gets a seizure from that shouldn't he also get one from literally any champion jumping out of a bush?

The reason he has seizures because of the Urgot execute VFX and not say, Rengar jumping out of a bush is because the chains take up a large amount of the screen, and they shake and flicker.

xDogMeatx1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the chains just appear on the sides of your screen and shake. This is about the VFX on the execute, not the drill being fired and hitting you.

buy a qss and there you go problem solved. no execute no seizure

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

buy a qss and there you go problem solved. no execute no seizure

The chains still come out if you're hit by Urgot's R while being below the HP threshold. It just means you can get away while being dragged in, but the chains would've still covered your screen while you're trying to press QSS.

Not to mention, that's such a shitty suggestion.

It's like telling people asking for wheelchair friendly access to just never go anywhere and be like "just stay at home 24/7 and never go anywhere. No going anywhere no worries about inaccessibility."

What are you, this guy? https://static.vibe.com/files/2017/02/Roll-Safe-1485964928-compressed.jpg

xDogMeatx1 votes

{quoted}

The chains still come out if you're hit by Urgot's R while being below the HP threshold. It just means you can get away while being dragged in, but the chains would've still covered your screen while you're trying to press QSS.

Not to mention, that's such a shitty suggestion.

It's like telling people asking for wheelchair friendly access to just never go anywhere and be like "just stay at home 24/7 and never go anywhere. No going anywhere no worries about inaccessibility."

What are you, this guy? https://static.vibe.com/files/2017/02/Roll-Safe-1485964928-compressed.jpg

didnt know that :p you said on execute which means killed already. thats where i got the idea not during the channel.

General Esdeath 5 votes

{quoted}

Is that a joke? I mean, I'm aware of the problems and stuff but. How Urgot's ult make someone get a seizure? Its not a sudden thing. I would say Pyke's ult maybe. Darius's ult. Or Rengar jumping on you. But Urgot is... Impossible. Unless you're playing Yi and pressing R and youdidn't see his ult coming and you get grabbed in a fight without noticing.

It's not sudden as in "a fast action", it's about a sudden color change or vast movement. Think of the big swirl used for stereptypical hypnosis, imagine that suddenly flashing not black and white, but red white and blue.

Diävolo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-02T23:06:23.453+0000)

It's not sudden as in "a fast action", it's about a sudden color change or vast movement. Think of the big swirl used for stereptypical hypnosis, imagine that suddenly flashing not black and white, but red white and blue.

So, Pyke's W will give him a seizure ? Project Vayne's R too. Kayn's R ? Zilean's R? Talon oneshoting him?...

General Esdeath 2 votes

{quoted}

So, Pyke's W will give him a seizure ? Project Vayne's R too. Kayn's R ? Zilean's R? Talon oneshoting him?...

Don't think so. Pyke's W is just a filter, same with Vayne and Kaye. If Vayne's R was spinning or flashing then probably.

floo1 votes

{quoted}

Is that a joke? I mean, I'm aware of the problems and stuff but. How Urgot's ult make someone get a seizure? Its not a sudden thing. I would say Pyke's ult maybe. Darius's ult. Or Rengar jumping on you. But Urgot is... Impossible. Unless you're playing Yi and pressing R and youdidn't see his ult coming and you get grabbed in a fight without noticing.

Have you ever seen Urgot's R chain animation? They take over a good 5th of each side of the screen, with the dark/white parts in the chain pattern shooting across the screen at high speed. I could see that being a trigger to something such as epilepsy. It doesn't have to be the entire screen like in that Pokemon episode or as big as strobe lights. If someone asks for a change like a toggle option because of a sickness, you can't just say "is this a joke". They aren't asking preemtively if it's such a strange case in the first place, expect them to have already had a bad experience with it. Ffs it's not hard to think.

Diävolo1 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever seen Urgot's R chain animation? They take over a good 5th of each side of the screen, with the dark/white parts in the chain pattern shooting across the screen at high speed. I could see that being a trigger to something such as epilepsy. It doesn't have to be the entire screen like in that Pokemon episode or as big as strobe lights. If someone asks for a change like a toggle option because of a sickness, you can't just say "is this a joke". They aren't asking preemtively if it's such a strange case in the first place, expect them to have already had a bad experience with it. Ffs it's not hard to think.

I think you're right, I shouldn't have asked if its a joke.

XxXGwanXxX6 votes

If they don't change this and someone you know has a seizure, sue them for all they got. That's all they deserve at this point.

Pika Fox1 votes

{quoted}

If they don't change this and someone you know has a seizure, sue them for all they got. That's all they deserve at this point.

Wouldnt work. If youre prone to epileptic seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place.

SEKAI3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:17:41.791+0000)

Wouldnt work. If youre prone to seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place.

Unless you're some kind of ubermensch who has no disadvantage in any part of your being and capability, and never asked for help or accommodation in your entire life and never will, otherwise this statement is hypocritical. But even then, it's still pretty bizarre.

Pika Fox3 votes

{quoted}

Unless you're some kind of ubermensch who has no disadvantage in any part of your being and capability, and never asked for help or accommodation in your entire life and never will, otherwise this statement is hypocritical. But even then, it's still pretty bizarre.

Not really? If you are diabetic you dont just go out eating a ton of candy bars and all. Given its not a widespread issue, its unlikely that urgots ult causes epileptic seizures for even a majority of people prone to it, and even then playing videogames or watching movies etc. as a rule is generally ill advised. Yes, theyll try to accommodate, but that doesnt mean something is magically their fault and they are liable for a lawsuit.

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:37:03.346+0000)

Not really? If you are diabetic you dont just go out eating a ton of candy bars and all. Given its not a widespread issue, its unlikely that urgots ult causes epileptic seizures for even a majority of people prone to it, and even then playing videogames or watching movies etc. as a rule is generally ill advised. Yes, theyll try to accommodate, but that doesnt mean something is magically their fault and they are liable for a lawsuit.

You said, "If youre prone to epileptic seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place."

If you want a substitute to diabetes, that would be "If you're prone to diabetes and diabetic shock, you know you shouldn't be eating carbs in the first place. (which is in EVERY diet that isn't about killing you with a slow and long-term starvation that isn't also some fancy expensive 'only meat and veggies' diet)", which you flap out of your mouth in the same sentence to deny the plea to low sugar variant of food product.

Or we can go onto another substitution exercise let's say about sensitive teeth, then your previous comment would become "if you're prone to sensitive teeth, you know you shouldn't be drinking anything other than warm tap water in the first place.", which is said by you just to deny the customer from asking for drinks to come without ice in it.

Having said option helps others and doesn't concern you, at all. It doesn't even cost much, if anything, since it's just an extra couple lines of code to the options menu to link a couple mechanics to a tickbox, much like a no sugar or no ice drink doesn't cost anything.

I am not sure why you're so defensive about this. Are you offended that people needing accommodation get their accommodation? Or hell, merely being defensive about the prospect that there are options which is just weird.

...........

Next you'd be telling me that blind or vision impaired people asking for Braille and other accommodation is too much and they shouldn't be studying/reading or working or even just going out in the first place, too.

Pika Fox2 votes

{quoted}

You said, "If youre prone to epileptic seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place."

If you want a substitute to diabetes, that would be "If you're prone to diabetes and diabetic shock, you know you shouldn't be eating carbs in the first place. (which is in EVERY diet that isn't about killing you with a slow and long-term starvation that isn't also some fancy expensive 'only meat and veggies' diet)", which you flap out of your mouth in the same sentence to deny the plea to low sugar variant of food product.

Or we can go onto another substitution exercise let's say about sensitive teeth, then your previous comment would become "if you're prone to sensitive teeth, you know you shouldn't be drinking anything other than warm tap water in the first place.", which is said by you just to deny the customer from asking for drinks to come without ice in it.

Having said option helps others and doesn't concern you, at all. It doesn't even cost much, if anything, since it's just an extra couple lines of code to the options menu to link a couple mechanics to a tickbox, much like a no sugar or no ice drink doesn't cost anything.

I am not sure why you're so defensive about this. Are you offended that people needing accommodation get their accommodation? Or hell, merely being defensive about the prospect that there are options which is just weird.

...........

Next you'd be telling me that blind or vision impaired people asking for Braille and other accommodation is too much and they shouldn't be studying/reading or working or even just going out in the first place, too.

Or, if you actually paid the hell attention to the comment i replied to, it was LITERALLY about suing a company over something i explained they cannot be sued for entirely because you are putting yourself, willingly and knowingly, at risk to begin with. You going on a random ass tangent making yourself look the fool isnt changing anything, no matter how many words you decide to put in my mouth.

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T02:16:58.802+0000)

Or, if you actually paid the hell attention to the comment i replied to, it was LITERALLY about suing a company over something i explained they cannot be sued for entirely because you are putting yourself, willingly and knowingly, at risk to begin with. You going on a random ass tangent making yourself look the fool isnt changing anything, no matter how many words you decide to put in my mouth.

"Wouldnt work. If youre prone to seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place."

No matter how you look at it, the justification for and follows your statement of "wouldn't work" is very much saying "if you need accommodation, boohoo too bad!" if you just read it.

It's not my or anyone's job to interpret the things you said in your own words from your head that we have no way of seeing or have little to work with; we don't live in your brain nor are we psychics that can read minds. You should've been the one that at least attempted to make it clear so it doesn't come off in the ways you may or may not have intended.

Pika Fox2 votes

{quoted}

"Wouldnt work. If youre prone to seizures, you know you shouldnt be playing games in the first place."

No matter how you look at it, the justification for and follows your statement of "wouldn't work" is very much saying "if you need accommodation, boohoo too bad!" if you just read it.

It's not my or anyone's job to interpret the things you said in your own words from your head that we have no way of seeing or have little to work with; we don't live in your brain nor are we psychics that can read minds. You should've been the one that at least attempted to make it clear so it doesn't come off in the ways you may or may not have intended.

Yeah, no. You dont get to shift blame for your own error to me. You failing to read is not my fault.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X7HKjKcW,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T13:12:32.021+0000)

Yeah, no. You dont get to shift blame for your own error to me. You failing to read is not my fault.

I didn't fail to read. I failed to read your mind, which isn't something you should blame me for. You should blame yourself for expressing horribly while somehow demanding people to read your mind instead of your words.

Pika Fox1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't fail to read. I failed to read your mind, which isn't something you should blame me for. You should blame yourself for expressing horribly while somehow demanding people to read your mind instead of your words.

You didnt need to read my mind, just the comment i replied to, which is shown inside my comment.

IRLNinjaLoli4 votes

tbh i dont even have epilepsy of any kind and i still find the urgot chains to be quite annoying

Beerstein3 votes

Riot does not read these boards. Try the Reddit ones. I'm the meantime you'll have to permaban urgot. Not the worst permaban out there anyway.

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

My mum has epilepsy, so I hope that something gets done about this.

But as an Urgot main: PLEASE make it a setting that people can chose to use or not. I really like this flavor to the skill and want to keep it if possible....

SuffocateMeDaddy3 votes

So does amumu ult or fiddle ult. Some skin particles make this effects worse. But hey, you aint pro? Then fucking die after you bite your tongue out.

SEKAI2 votes

Wait until your bf plays Warwick and get a dose of his obnoxious non-stop bloodshot screen effect and pervasive heart-beat sound effect from his W that you can't turn off and is turn on automatically every single time any enemy falls under 50% HP regardless of distance away from Warwick.

The bloodshot screen effect on his W only effects Warwick himself. Enemy players targeted by his W would only hear his howling and have a red wolf icon showing up on their heads so it's probably fine.

This is to say, just to be on the safe side, your bf should never play Warwick.

.........

I've been asking for certain champ effects to be able to be turned off for a while. While I haven't been focusing on potential trigger for epilepsy, but some of the effects are just plain annoying and obnoxious and we should have some options to either tune ability effects down or remove certain cues entirely in the options menu, particularly those that has effects that cover your entire screen such as being hit by a successful Urgot's R or Warwick triggering his W.

Being potential trigger for epilepsy gives more reasons to do it.

But then again, we're talking about Riot here. You know, the company that still wouldn't even bother to actually give us language options in 2019 and both text and voice language options are completely fixed on server unless you go and edit the client txt file yourself with potential risk of being banned for file editing (I mean, how hard is it to enable language when all the text translation and voice-over in different languages are ALREADY there? Why do they have to be fixed on server?)? So I'm not exactly holding my breath about upcoming change for that, sadly.

OtterlyLost2 votes

Direct removal is extreme. It adds atmosphere to the game and gives the champion a "spooky, horror" feel. And considering its literally 3% of a 1% of the population that could have issues, taking away something that the majority don't have a problem and enjoy seems unfair. I agree they should probably give an option in the settings to turn off extraneous animations. Maybe just have an epileptic mode for those who want/need it.

OneMustFall1 votes

Epilepsy is generally triggered by quick, sudden flashing or strobing. I'm not certain the chains sprawling across the edges of your screen would qualify as an epilepsy trigger, and if they do, that person who it triggers is an extreme exception to the situation, and probably shouldn't be playing a video game like League at all.

100% agreed. If you're that sensitive to that sort of mechanic, you should not be playing video games like League.

TheSingularity3 votes

I have it and am yet to be set of by any form of light stimulus. Everyone is different. Some are triggered by a TV screen flashing at regular intervals while others at random intervals, such as the static/white noise screen. Even then the frequency may be the deciding factor. Or the color/wavelength of light. Contrast (bright light in a dark room). Certain patterns and their spacing/arrangement. It's far more fken involved than "he had a seizure to light to he must be sensitive to light". This individual may have only ever been set off by this single stimulus and is fine with everythin else, as this is what makes his brain shit the bed. Assuming his brain is sensitive in general displays your complete ignorance on the subject.

Lapis1 votes

Wow, I didn't expect people to get defensive about something like this. I don't see any reason not to put in an option to toggle this if it means people can be safe

Bugog2 votes

Yeah, this is a stupid argument. It would be like asking for colorbind adjustments to be an option in the game if it was causing issues, and then having people freak out about it.

It's a request that makes sense, and another form of visual indicator can be made. Most of this discussion is silly.

Typhl01 votes

Does he have with Kata 's ult vfx with ba skin? On the corners

XivaI1 votes

{quoted}

Does he have with Kata 's ult vfx with ba skin? On the corners

He doesn't play Kata, but I'd never seen that animation and I'll tell him to avoid it. Thanks.

Glîtchy1 votes

The people who are saying Urgot ult can’t do it.....

Get yourself a history of epileptic seizures then come talk to us

Taliban Zilean1 votes

What about garens ultimate?

Daddy Ants1 votes

Playing vs Akali triggers seizures also.

GigglesO1 votes

Honestly if they added a less flashy Epilepsy safe mode I’d probably run it even though I have no issues.

All these flashy animations really make the game look like shit to play.

Then again riot probs won’t do it because all they care about is flashy, Edgy, Exciting.

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