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League Ban System Suggestions

COLDHAWK·12/29/2019, 10:08:50 AM·1 votes·893 views

hello, i've just gotten my 7th or so perma ban. I would like to suggest some improvement to the League of Legends ban system on two points. if you want anything clarified, have any questions or criticism, comment, i will be here

problem: 1. CHAT chatting is punished extremely severely compared to other forms of toxicity, there are "features" in the chat that don't need to exist if the chat is not meant for them 2. NON CHAT other forms of toxicity are harder to detect and automatically ban SOLUTIONS IN TERMS OF RANKED QUEUE, NOT NORMAL GAMES.

i don't see reason for chat existing in ranked games. i've been told in response to a supp ticket, chat is for communicating strategies. then chat is very misused or a double edged sword.

first, two things about flame, and why i think even people who flame deserve to be accounted for

? why flame happens in social place, there are repercussions for behavior. repercussions are made by the people interacting. excessively rude? ostracization or physical punishment is result. ex, labeling, taking your money, prison, etc. "flame" is audible response of person to the law or behavior of other people, to guarantee his needs. this is natural and necessary. this applies to league. it is possible to deduce - while everything is in the hands of the player, it is also good if the system in which the player exists is encouraging lawful behavior, like riot attempts with honor system. (if the law of league is not good to me, why should i uphold it and not abuse it at every possible situation to expose its flaws? clearly, by doing this, i would be improving it. by exposing flaws in it, we know what to improve. league system wants me to behave, but i expect also league to not feel too unfair)

? why flame is worse in league than irl no time to say. "what you did was wrong, because of reason X and Y and Z, we should consider A and B". any criticism results in conflict and spiraling, due lack of time and misinterpretation. they want to reply, and it is natural to do so, but it is not possible. on top, many people are not perfect at english, creating significant tension. this problem has been drastically alleviated by adding better ping system. i have many times disagreed with a player, he has flamed me / i have flamed him, i have added him after game, talked to him, incurred about his reasoning and always have come to understanding, respect, some agreement. this says to me, the environment of league is bad for people, not that people are bad. it is how in inner city people are less close because there are so many people. it is the fault of the environment. this also ceases to be true in higher elo, where you start to repeatedly meet the same people

ISSUE 1. why does the chat allow so many ways to break rules? _i notice that chat bans seem to be primarily based off of rate of messages and trigger words. _

**1. SOLUTION FOR CHAT ** 1.1 permanent message limiter, like chat restriction. make messages a limited resource. there is never need for typing many messages, spending a lot of time typing. all other things can be done through pings. typing a lot in chat in short time can only be bad. 1.2 more advanced ping system alleviate need for chatting. add pings such as "reset", "enemy not on map", "need back", "enemy hasn't backed" etc. this closes communication gap by a universal signal that can not be misinterpreted, unlike chat. 1.3 voice chat for whole team you do not use your mouth to play, it is a free tool for communication. your hand is on the mouse, typing is intrusive. 1.4 delete messages with trigger words instead of banning for trigger words, simply delete messages that contain unfavorable words, or permanently censor them. being banned for some odd-word is very frustrating. the intent of a player should matter, but it cannot be monitored by a bot. if a word is off-limits, simply do not let it be posted.

**2. SOLUTION FOR NON CHAT ** 2.1 report/honor system that provides feedback allow players to openly flag other players for negative or positive behavior. a literal counter of votes is far more responsive than the report or honor. make players flagged too much get reviewed by riot (under the assumption that we can not detect non chat toxicity by a set of inbuilt rules). it also discourages people by making it visible that their behavior is not acceptable and that they might be reviewed if they continue accumulating negative flags.

personal note: i've had a ban for typing kys. have i formerly accumulated a bad report score? is it simply the use of this trigger word? it is not clear at all! this is discouraging and frustrating. the honor system and report system is very aethereal and provides no feedback. on other accounts, i have experimented with inting and going afk. there is absolutely no punishment for it. all of my permanent account bans have been in regards to the chat. other than lacking an outlet for comms, this is my biggest issue. i feel frustrated to not have been banned on said accounts.

i enjoy league of legends and hope riot can make it more responsive when a ban is incoming, and discourage forms of toxicity outside of the chat, ones that, arguably, are far worse than any word said in chat!

3 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon12/29/2019, 10:55:15 AM1 votes

Oh wow this is a lot. I'll try to break it down, though.

{quoted}

problem: 1. CHAT chatting is punished extremely severely compared to other forms of toxicity, there are "features" in the chat that don't need to exist if the chat is not meant for them

Chatting is punished for toxicity so much more than other forms because it's the easiest to detect. It's harder to prove whether or not someone inted than it is to prove someone was flaming someone else.

2. NON CHAT other forms of toxicity are harder to detect and automatically ban

Ah. You know that already. Well, that's good. I'm honestly surprised - most people making this kind of post don't tend to know why things are the way they are to any degree. So good on you for at least knowing why chat is easier to punish. :3

SOLUTIONS IN TERMS OF RANKED QUEUE, NOT NORMAL GAMES.

i don't see reason for chat existing in ranked games. i've been told in response to a supp ticket, chat is for communicating strategies. then chat is very misused or a double edged sword.

Is something being misused in a fairly benign way (At the end of the day, flaming someone is basically never going to get someone killed) really worth taking away the benefits, though?

first, two things about flame, and why i think even people who flame deserve to be accounted for

? why flame happens in social place, there are repercussions for behavior. repercussions are made by the people interacting. excessively rude? ostracization or physical punishment is result. ex, labeling, taking your money, prison, etc.

Except...You don't put them in prison. Authorities do that. If you were to try to put someone in jail (assuming, of course, that like most people you are not an authority figure) that would be highly illegal.

And, it's kinda funny you mention ostracization (I hope to god you spelled this right because my spellcheck isn't picking it up as right no matter how I try), since that's what Riot tells you to do. You're not meant to retaliate. You're meant to ignore them and report it to Riot. That's literally what you're meant to do.

"flame" is audible response of person to the law or behavior of other people, to guarantee his needs. this is natural and necessary. this applies to league.

You should very much vent your frustrations. However, you're not supposed to vent them at other players. Riot doesn't care two shits how much you flame them outside of League - This is why they don't care that Tyler1 is flaming the shit out of his teammates on stream, since his stream is out of League it's acceptable to Riot for him to do so. They may not like it, but it's within what they allow. You're also welcome to call your jungler hardstuck bronze 5 dogshit who couldn't figure out the difference between his face and his ass out loud or in a Discord server (please, though, for my sanity do so in a rant channel) or to your friends. All of these are...not exactly healthy ways to vent your anger, but they're also allowed and, more importantly, don't antagonize other players.

it is possible to deduce - while everything is in the hands of the player, it is also good if the system in which the player exists is encouraging lawful behavior, like riot attempts with honor system. (if the law of league is not good to me, why should i uphold it and not abuse it at every possible situation to expose its flaws? clearly, by doing this, i would be improving it. by exposing flaws in it, we know what to improve. league system wants me to behave, but i expect also league to not feel too unfair)

And you're fully welcome to point out its flaws. However, be prepared to accept that it's not always a flaw in the system, and you should discuss the flaws, rather than trying to abuse them.

? why flame is worse in league than irl no time to say. "what you did was wrong, because of reason X and Y and Z, we should consider A and B". any criticism results in conflict and spiraling, due lack of time and misinterpretation. they want to reply, and it is natural to do so, but it is not possible. on top, many people are not perfect at english, creating significant tension. this problem has been drastically alleviated by adding better ping system. i have many times disagreed with a player, he has flamed me / i have flamed him, i have added him after game, talked to him, incurred about his reasoning and always have come to understanding, respect, some agreement. this says to me, the environment of league is bad for people, not that people are bad. it is how in inner city people are less close because there are so many people. it is the fault of the environment. this also ceases to be true in higher elo, where you start to repeatedly meet the same people

Is it really worse, though?

League has a lot more flaming, but its impact is generally pretty low. At most, it causes you to tilt and lose more games. The frequency of it and the fact that we all know it's just a heated environment means there's relatively few large issues caused by flaming. People generally tend to brush off being flamed in League after a bit.

And, more importantly, you got close to an issue in League - One person flaming leads to others being more likely to flame. If your criticism is not being handled well, it's best to just not respond. It's not a debate, and you're not going to change minds in time for it to matter.

ISSUE 1. why does the chat allow so many ways to break rules? _i notice that chat bans seem to be primarily based off of rate of messages and trigger words. _

All kinds of punishment are severity x frequency. You can be mildly toxic occasionally, and you'll be perfectly fine. Someone with a good enough history could flame the everlasting shit out of someone in one game and probably be fine, as long as they avoided zero-tolerance phrases. Please don't do that, though. Just take my word about that and please do not flame the shit out of anyone.

**1. SOLUTION FOR CHAT ** 1.1 permanent message limiter, like chat restriction. make messages a limited resource. there is never need for typing many messages, spending a lot of time typing. all other things can be done through pings. typing a lot in chat in short time can only be bad.

I use chat fairly frequently as a way to relieve stress about bad shit in the game. If I can find someone to joke around with I can easily avoid tilting.

That, and it's impossible to make any kind of complex strategy or help de-tilt your team with pings. Even with a much better ping system it'd just be too much at times.

1.2 more advanced ping system alleviate need for chatting. add pings such as "reset", "enemy not on map", "need back", "enemy hasn't backed" etc. this closes communication gap by a universal signal that can not be misinterpreted, unlike chat.

How do I communicate I'm going to take raptors, red, krugs, gank top, then powerfarm to 6 with pings? You can't do something like that with just pings.

A more advanced ping system would be nice, though. Some way to communicate the enemy has backed would be amazing.

1.3 voice chat for whole team you do not use your mouth to play, it is a free tool for communication. your hand is on the mouse, typing is intrusive.

This...is an issue for many, many reasons, and I'd actually hate it if Riot did that shit.

But, we're talking about toxicity in particular, not about how voice chat with randoms is the absolute worst experience in the game.

Voice chat would be just as abused for toxicity, if not more abused, while also being much harder to detect. It's easier to set a bot to do read through a chat log looking for specific kinds of phrases than it is to make it go through voice comms.

1.4 delete messages with trigger words instead of banning for trigger words, simply delete messages that contain unfavorable words, or permanently censor them. being banned for some odd-word is very frustrating. the intent of a player should matter, but it cannot be monitored by a bot. if a word is off-limits, simply do not let it be posted.

I do agree that messages with ZT words should just be autodeleted.

**2. SOLUTION FOR NON CHAT ** 2.1 report/honor system that provides feedback allow players to openly flag other players for negative or positive behavior. a literal counter of votes is far more responsive than the report or honor. make players flagged too much get reviewed by riot (under the assumption that we can not detect non chat toxicity by a set of inbuilt rules). it also discourages people by making it visible that their behavior is not acceptable and that they might be reviewed if they continue accumulating negative flags.

Inting already undergoes manual review...

personal note: i've had a ban for typing kys. have i formerly accumulated a bad report score? is it simply the use of this trigger word? it is not clear at all! this is discouraging and frustrating. the honor system and report system is very aethereal and provides no feedback.

You simply using the word and getting reported in the same game will automatically lead to a 14 day ban. KYS and all slurs will automatically lead to a 14 day ban for the first offense.

on other accounts, i have experimented with inting and going afk. there is absolutely no punishment for it. all of my permanent account bans have been in regards to the chat. other than lacking an outlet for comms, this is my biggest issue. i feel frustrated to not have been banned on said accounts.

Again...Manual review for inting. Manual reviews take time, and there's always a lot of them to go through. AFKing is automatically punished, it's just...more lax than it should be.

MordridtheBlack12/29/2019, 1:47:57 PM1 votes

I'm only going to touch on the end of this post as it is rather long

Solutions for Chat;

  1. Putting in an extra filter system for chat could cause more problems than it solves. It just moves the trolls from one area to another. (see how Riot used to do the old chat ban system)

  2. The ping system is rather advanced, it is just not everyone knows how to use every possible ping. Hell I've been playing this game for more then 4 years and I still don't know how to use all of the ping system.

  3. Yes because I want to listen to some guy cuss me out over my questionable build/plays. No thank you, forcing people into voice chat is not a solution. And on a different note, that system isn't monitored (as far as I know), so how can I report someone for saying something in voice chat when Riot will have no record of it?

  4. No, we need to ban for words that trigger the system punishment. Just deleting them incentivizes the players to keep saying that stuff because they will feel like there is less of a chance for them to get punished.

Solutions for Non-Chat;

  1. The report system does offer feedback, just on rare occasions. Players already make false reports as it is, adding more options for people to report/flag someone because they did something you don't agree with will just further cause problems.

KYS is a zero tolerance phrase. Riot doesn't share their list of zero tolerance words/phrases and they shouldn't. If players knew that full list, they would just easily change up how they say things so that the system won't trigger a punishment and then Riot has to deal with a slew of new reports about these odd words/phrases they've never seen before to try and determine if they are punishable. [We only know that one because it is a rather common one that crops up and the Mods here have pointed it out as such]