I had this game yesterday, see attached. I just don't understand why the rank differences were so high.
My team wasn't bad, they played pretty well. Their team was just clearly better and more experienced. Especially the Pantheon and Brand
I wasn't in promos, no one was if I remember correctly. It just seems like this game was set up for us to lose. I don't mind playing opponents with a higher difficulty.
I do mind when the mismatch is this extreme.
Mat7itan1 votesThe match was set up this way because that is the rank that everyone is playing at. The silver players have the same mmr as the gold players. SO essentially even though they are a lower rank they have just as much skill as the gold players. I have been playing against silver 3s, 2s, 1s and the occasional gold 5 since I was level 23. At first I didn't think this was really fair, but I was winning most of those games or at least doing well myself. Matchmaking isn't perfect, but it tries to match people based on skill, and you said it yourself. Your team played well.
disregardable1 votesSay that to my 25% win rate :/
RuGu1 votesThe match was set up this way because that is the rank that everyone is playing at. The silver players have the same mmr as the gold players. SO essentially even though they are a lower rank they have just as much skill as the gold players. I have been playing against silver 3s, 2s, 1s and the occasional gold 5 since I was level 23. At first I didn't think this was really fair, but I was winning most of those games or at least doing well myself. Matchmaking isn't perfect, but it tries to match people based on skill, and you said it yourself. Your team played well.
I'm not sure about this
Me (Thresh) and Sejuani where the only ones with a win streak going on my team. Jinx was on a losing streak and the other two Renek and Cass were kind of even.
Enemy team was either on win streaks or even.
Just seems like after 6 game win streak the team got stacked against mine a little hard.
Mat7itan1 votesIt doesn't matter if you're on a win streak or not. I've been on large losing streaks through out my time playing league, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm bad. I don't always play as well as I can and neither do the people I play with. If the first game I play I play badly and lose because of it that puts me at 1 loss. If in my second game I play well, but someone else doesn't play as well as they could and we lose because of that I now have 2 losses. This could repeat for a while and I could end up on a losing streak. This doesn't mean the people I played with are bad all the time, they may have just been having a bad game.
You said it yourself. Your teammates played well against players of a higher rank so they must have a similar skill level to those players. You most likely lost because the other team played better as a whole than your team.
You also have to take into account that it is still rather early in the season so peoples mmrs aren't necessarily where they should be. Making for more uneven games more often.
RuGu1 votesIt doesn't matter if you're on a win streak or not. I've been on large losing streaks through out my time playing league, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm bad. I don't always play as well as I can and neither do the people I play with. If the first game I play I play badly and lose because of it that puts me at 1 loss. If in my second game I play well, but someone else doesn't play as well as they could and we lose because of that I now have 2 losses. This could repeat for a while and I could end up on a losing streak. This doesn't mean the people I played with are bad all the time, they may have just been having a bad game.
You said it yourself. Your teammates played well against players of a higher rank so they must have a similar skill level to those players. You most likely lost because the other team played better as a whole than your team.
They played well in regards to what I can expect from team mates. The enemy team was obviously more experienced and better overall.
No one on my team raged or yelled at one another, no one made any horrific decisions, and for the most part warded the map pretty well.
We we're however clearly out matched in terms of mechanics and general strategy. The enemy team definitely played better as a team, but I would expect that given their ranks compared to ours. They weren't out of our league in a 1 to 1 scenario; however as a whole they were.
You really cant say "Well they have lower MMR!" when they are all on win streaks or at least 50/50. If they have lower MMR than their ranks indicate, why are they still winning?
Mat7itan1 votesIf rank really shows the skill level for a player then why was I winning against ranked players before I was level 30? The reason they might have won is because their team had better communication than your team. I couldn't tell you how many games I've won against teams full of ranked players when no one on my team is level 30. We won because even though we were lower rank we communicated better and worked together better than those higher ranked players.
RuGu1 votesIf rank really shows the skill level for a player then why was I winning against ranked players before I was level 30? The reason they might have won is because their team had better communication than your team. I couldn't tell you how many games I've won against teams full of ranked players when no one on my team is level 30. We won because even though we were lower rank we communicated better and worked together better than those higher ranked players.
Solo Ranked Queue and Normals are a different world my friend. You really cannot compare the two.
Karlyr1 votesMMR. Well that's all folks !
The rating you see doesn't mean much. If you are silver 3 and you gain 30-40 LP, your MMR is probably way over (something like S1 or maybe even G5). In your case, your Renek and Sej were clearly in that case.
On the other hand, if the ennemy team is in the opposite case (winning roughly 7-15 LP), their MMR is clearly lower. Clearly the case of their lee sin.
This said, we don't know how placements work and maybe other people are in those cases.
RuGu1 votesMMR. Well that's all folks !
The rating you see doesn't mean much. If you are silver 3 and you gain 30-40 LP, your MMR is probably way over (something like S1 or maybe even G5). In your case, your Renek and Sej were clearly in that case.
On the other hand, if the ennemy team is in the opposite case (winning roughly 7-15 LP), their MMR is clearly lower. Clearly the case of their lee sin.
This said, we don't know how placements work and maybe other people are in those cases.
I hate the hidden MMR system.
wouldn't it just make more sense to either show your actual MMR or actually match people from + / - 1 division?
I mean if my MMR is really higher than S3 then I should be able to beat people in S4-S2 and climb on victories right? Instead my MMR is matching me at the Gold level buuuut I still get to keep my awesome S3 rank while playing against these higher level opponents?
RuGu2 votesMMR. Well that's all folks !
The rating you see doesn't mean much. If you are silver 3 and you gain 30-40 LP, your MMR is probably way over (something like S1 or maybe even G5). In your case, your Renek and Sej were clearly in that case.
On the other hand, if the ennemy team is in the opposite case (winning roughly 7-15 LP), their MMR is clearly lower. Clearly the case of their lee sin.
This said, we don't know how placements work and maybe other people are in those cases.
look at lee sins history. he has crazy win streaks going and is getting matched vs low plat in some cases.
not to mention he is 14 - 6 in his last 20 games.
IDK why his MMR would be that low to get matched with me.
junglerboy161 votesprobably the ranked reset. It threw a LOT of people off of where they usually were based on the backlash on the boards after people did their placements. It seems like almost everyone ended up at least one or 2 divisions lower than they were, and then everyone who got their usual place were annoyed they were facing ex plat players in silver 4.
RuGu1 votesI just thought enough time had past that we would be beyond that.
Also is a really a "soft reset" if you just retain your MMR but your visual rank resets?
IDK why we just don't get 20LP for a win and -20LP for a loss.
instead we have to trust Riot to come up with a correct algorithm for this?
Lets look at their track record on a few things:
East Coast Latency - ....yeah. Zed - What doesn't he do? Lee Sin - Best Jungler for how long now? The Jungle - What a fun place that is these days. The balance between ADCs being insanely too useful vs a worthless class Tanks - Hardly exist The Rune Debacle Olaf, Urgot, Morde, and the 30 other neglected champs of league Mobility Creep Ghostcrawler
I mean... you can't expect them to be perfect, and they do have their strengths, like making Skins and Selling the LCS.
I'm just saying for all the things we do criticize them for, the fact that most of us trust they have created a fair / good match making algorithm is a little insane.
Karlyr1 votesI just thought enough time had past that we would be beyond that.
Also is a really a "soft reset" if you just retain your MMR but your visual rank resets?
IDK why we just don't get 20LP for a win and -20LP for a loss.
instead we have to trust Riot to come up with a correct algorithm for this?
Lets look at their track record on a few things:
East Coast Latency - ....yeah. Zed - What doesn't he do? Lee Sin - Best Jungler for how long now? The Jungle - What a fun place that is these days. The balance between ADCs being insanely too useful vs a worthless class Tanks - Hardly exist The Rune Debacle Olaf, Urgot, Morde, and the 30 other neglected champs of league Mobility Creep Ghostcrawler
I mean... you can't expect them to be perfect, and they do have their strengths, like making Skins and Selling the LCS.
I'm just saying for all the things we do criticize them for, the fact that most of us trust they have created a fair / good match making algorithm is a little insane.
Making the game doing +20/-20 would end up in interminable queues because the algorithm would have to match EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with the same MMR.
Unless you want to wait around 30 minutes to play one game, this won't work.
RuGu1 votesMaking the game doing +20/-20 would end up in interminable queues because the algorithm would have to match EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with the same MMR.
Unless you want to wait around 30 minutes to play one game, this won't work.
IDK, most of the time I get people near my bracket, just that time seemed like to grabbed a bunch of gold players and stuck them on the enemy team. Even if they have the same MMR as me it only makes me upset that I wasn't able to win and feel as though my team was set up to lose. I mean either those players I played against got knocked down into gold from somewhere higher or have already proven they can climb at least that high right? I don't mind a little disparity in the ranks, but I was playing against 3 people who where a full tier / division thing ahead of me. I know MMR matters, but why do they have to hide it / obscure it behind the tier system then?
The following game I had a Gold 1 Sejuani on the enemy team in their promos duo'd with a Silver IV. How does that accurately reflect that Sej's skill in terms of being promoted into plat? Because she beat up on some high silvers and low golds? She is suppose to at that point.
IMO Duo queue MMR should be the highest person in the duo during promos.
Karlyr1 voteslook at lee sins history. he has crazy win streaks going and is getting matched vs low plat in some cases.
not to mention he is 14 - 6 in his last 20 games.
IDK why his MMR would be that low to get matched with me.
His MMR doesn't imply his last 20 games. It implies ALL his RANKED games. Anyway, it's only 1 game, and you should REALLY not focus on a single game.
RuGu2 votesHis MMR doesn't imply his last 20 games. It implies ALL his RANKED games. Anyway, it's only 1 game, and you should REALLY not focus on a single game.
I'm fine with it, but I just don't like how after you go on a winning streak you just have to wait in fear of when the system decides to start ratcheting up the difficulty.
Sirsir1 votesCeleste Benal1 votesRiot matchmaking at work. Looks like you did well considering the difference. Good news is your MMR won't suffer much if at all.
RuGu1 votesLets just look at the records of all the players involved, maybe that will help shed a little light on this one.
Thresh | Silver 3 | 12W 10L | Last Season: Gold Renekton | Silver 3 | 5W 9L | Last Season: Gold Jinx | Gold 5 | 25W 21L | Last Season: Gold Sejuani | Gold 4 | 38W 31L | Least Season: Gold Cassiopeia | Silver 1 | 13W 13L | Last Season: Gold
Totals: 93W 84L | 175 Games Played
Enemy Team Sivir | Gold 3 | 67W 68L | Last Season: Gold Lee Sin | Gold 3 | 109W 99L | Last Season: Gold Nunu |Gold 5| 80W 67L | Last Season: Gold Brand |Gold 3 | 28W 21L | Last Season: Gold Pantheon | Gold 2 | 28W 32L | Last Season: Plat
Totals: 312W 287L | 599 Games Played
The Duos on each team were Sejuani + Renekton and Nunu + Lee Sin
I just can't in my mind equate these two teams, the enemy team is clearly stronger. We were also Red / Purple side which typically means higher MMR right?
RuGu1 votesLets just look at the records of all the players involved, maybe that will help shed a little light on this one.
Thresh | Silver 3 | 12W 10L | Last Season: Gold Renekton | Silver 3 | 5W 9L | Last Season: Gold Jinx | Gold 5 | 25W 21L | Last Season: Gold Sejuani | Gold 4 | 38W 31L | Least Season: Gold Cassiopeia | Silver 1 | 13W 13L | Last Season: Gold
Totals: 93W 84L | 175 Games Played
Enemy Team Sivir | Gold 3 | 67W 68L | Last Season: Gold Lee Sin | Gold 3 | 109W 99L | Last Season: Gold Nunu |Gold 5| 80W 67L | Last Season: Gold Brand |Gold 3 | 28W 21L | Last Season: Gold Pantheon | Gold 2 | 28W 32L | Last Season: Plat
Totals: 312W 287L | 599 Games Played
The Duos on each team were Sejuani + Renekton and Nunu + Lee Sin
I just can't in my mind equate these two teams, the enemy team is clearly stronger. We were also Red / Purple side which typically means higher MMR right?
Anyone? Doesn't this seem a bit lopsided.
Cerbearus1 votesYou should see Dominion matchmaking lol.
Vesarixx1 votesIt's your MMR, that looks pretty much like all my matches in season 4, you end up getting more LP for a win and losing less on a loss so it has an upside as well.
Killer X 121 votesLooks like your team was on red/purple side. The team with the higher Team MMR (so average for that team) is put on purple side since blue side has a few innate advantages. So based solely on MMR your team was actually expected to win.
Left Hook Larry1 votesIt's MMR. I'm currently in Gold 5, but every match I get Plats and high golds and gain around 28 LP per win. Your MMR is what matches you, not your rank. You could be Silver with Gold MMR
SleepyLionCub1 votesCan someone explain THIS game?
ZephyrDrake1 votesdude no one cares, they had the same MMR as your team, whether or not they played better than yours doesn't matter. people have bad games, people go on losing streaks get over it
