Aurelion Sol Ultimate doesn't feel like one anymore

Stars Shaper··63 votes·4,794 views

Disclaimer: This thread is not about Aurelion Sol being a weak/strong character, it's about the state of his Ultimate.

After some games I've played after patch I don't feel any accomplishment in landing his ultimate. Its peel potential is low even with Rylai's since at that time mobility CDs and such are low and/or ppl already have built at least a slow reistsence item. Its damage is not worthy of notice unless you can hit enemies with 3 stars and a stun (That if you are not recieving any CC because if you are: Stars gone for 4 seconds).

Riot needs to decide what it should be:

  • A way to peel out enemies? Then give it back its slow duration and decay over time
  • A reliable source of damage? Then give it back its damage

Or either give it a damage amplifying debuff on enemies hit.

69 Comments

Orangesilk25 votes

He's sitting at 52.7% winrate in plat+, he's not WEAK by any stretch of the imagination. Often champions with extremely solid and synergistic kits are given subpar or utility ultimates to make up for that fact:

KogMaw Irelia TahmKench Volibear Evelynn

He's fine, he doesn't need any buffs, if anything he could easily be tuned down a tad and still be a balanced champion. Right now we have much more pressing weak outliers in desperate need of buffs like Vladimir Illaoi Nunu.

Bisaknosp3 votes

wat? vladimir is not weak at all

PB4UAME11 votes

Every metric points to the contrary. They made him weaker, less reliable, and much more telegraphed as well; what do you expect?

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

Even after that hot fix he's still sitting at the bottom in win rates, right above Cassiopeia who IS the bottom :(

Troll for Trump4 votes

It's because of a low pickrate; Galio Top has had the highest winrate for 2 patches in a row now, and he's certainly not Op

Stars Shaper5 votes

I'm not telling that he is weak but that his ultimate feels too underwhelming. I would be fine with some number tweaking if that meant giving it a purpose. Right now it's not a reliable source of damage nor a peeling skill.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

If they put an initial slow upon placement then it would probably feel better in team fights

IceKingChernobog1 votes

{quoted}

He's sitting at 52.7% winrate in plat+, he's not WEAK by any stretch of the imagination. Often champions with extremely solid and synergistic kits are given subpar or utility ultimates to make up for that fact:

KogMaw Irelia TahmKench Volibear Evelynn

He's fine, he doesn't need any buffs, if anything he could easily be tuned down a tad and still be a balanced champion. Right now we have much more pressing weak outliers in desperate need of buffs like Vladimir Illaoi Nunu.

I agree on kog, irelia, and kench. Voli and eve are in dersperate need of kit and visual reworks

Marshbouy6 votes

Aurelion sol is fine. He is a very hard champion to play but people who were very good at aurelion sol had 65% win rates. He needed nerfs

Stars Shaper7 votes

First of all: He had 56%

I know how hard it is, I started playing him since day 1 and I adapted to it and became quite succesful (I still am). It's just that it feels that my good plays ain't rewarded at all compared to spam mobility stuff that deals damage too, point and click killshots etc.

Also I want to notice that Aurelion Sol has a really low pick rate which means that while still not having 125+ games on him ppl were actually trying their best on him. Wouldn't a highly hard champion be allowed to have a bit better winrate if "mastered" (using commas because we can't talk of real mastery since he is rather new). Riot didn't even wait for ppl who played against him to adapt.

Marshbouy4 votes

a difficult champion that you have mastered should get you a high win rate 65% is insane. 60% is high and 56-58% is what you should have if you have mastered the champ

Stars Shaper8 votes

I'm not asking to revert all the nerfs. I'm just saying that his ultimate right now doesn't feel powerful as it should be. It's just a glorified basic ability.

Marshbouy4 votes

thats how his whole kit feels. he is not flashy

Stars Shaper5 votes

Not aksing for flashyness, but for worthyness.

I gues rengo/fiora/jinx players don't have such problems.

Marshbouy1 votes

i think what you mean is viscerality and i totally agree with you on that. (this explains what that weird word is https://youtu.be/Z0-lKQPAMgA) Unless you are talking about strengths of other abilites to makes his ult stronger and im not sure what to say to that.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Because thats what they intended. They acknowledged his ult was lackluster due to the focus on his passive.

Marshbouy1 votes

exactly. to mkake his ult more impactful they would have to strip down his passive AKA his identity

SettDownShutUp1 votes

I'd be okay with this. His 'identity' sucks and is hard to land on Zeds.

Marshbouy1 votes

mobility counters skillshot like abilites? WOW!

SettDownShutUp1 votes

I can aim a skillshot. I can't aim these testicles. They have 2 ranges. Piss poor and "Woops they blinked inside. Back to piss poor."

Marshbouy1 votes

If you can't aim those testicles that's your issue. His win rate is fine. Just becasue you are bad at him is some situations does not mean that he is a bad champion

SettDownShutUp1 votes

Azir would like a word with you =3=

Marshbouy1 votes

Are you insulting me on the game where I got raped by a mastery 5 Leblanc?

SettDownShutUp1 votes

No but now I find it hilarious.

No, I'm mentioning it for azir's notoriety of having a skill ceiling so high it might as well be willy wonka's elevator. Sol's Winrates don't mean it's a fun mechanic.

Marshbouy1 votes

That is entirely subjective. I find his mechanic very fun

SettDownShutUp1 votes

I can respect that.

Canidae2 votes

quotation marks(") not commas(,)

You're welcome.

Stars Shaper1 votes

My bad ^^

Astôlfo3 votes

Uh yeah, sure, whatever you say buddy. You got the statistics wrong, as well as ignored every factor contributing to it. But sure, QQ more.

Marshbouy3 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/AurelionSol 65% win rate with 100+ games he needed nerfs

Astôlfo4 votes

Uh, yeah, sure. Cherrypick harder. Extremely low playrate, falls off hars after early, countered by most mids, and a sub-par winrate without experience. But gee, didnmt realize people aren't allowed to learn and get good.

Marshbouy2 votes

high skill cap=high rewards not astronomical rewards (no pun intended) lets look at some other high skill cap champions such as azir or lee sin lee sin-48% win rate with 125+ games azir-54.5% win rate with 125+ games im not cherrypicking, im being right

Astôlfo3 votes

Yeah buddy, whatever you say. Lee is just trash in general and falls off even harder. Azir's always been a high skill cap but strong champ. Try again. :^)

Marshbouy1 votes

im sorry for the insults im about to say but you are a complete idiot. Azir is quoted repeatedly as having a kit too good to exist in league. Lee sin has incredible early game power and mobility. Debating with you is pointless, you aren't worth my time

Astôlfo2 votes

The irony of you calling someone an idiot. lmao

Not sure where that's been "repeatedly" quoted at all. It's well known he's one of the most difficult champs but incredibly strong if one can master him.

Lee has a strong early with good mobility. That's all he has, because he needs to snowball as hard as hell otherwise he falls off and is useless trash. He cannot contribute to anything past early game for shit unless his opponents are idiots. He literally is a champion like Pantheon except worse. Lee exists to kill the enemy players so many times they fall behind to the laners, so that the laners can dominate. He himself is useless. Fly into enemy team for your combo and you'll be instantly locked down and killed.

For someone so apparently good, he has a… 47.2% winrate. And his highest winrate is in early game. Before it falls off conpletely.

But yeah sure, apparently I'm the idiot.

I have no idea why I waste my time trying to educate something like you. It's obviously futile. You aren't worth the time it takes to wipe off the dirt on someone's shoes.

Marshbouy1 votes

You are the idiot because you fail to realize that he really is a good champion that in the right situation can be used very well. I notice that you completely ignore me talking about Azir except for denying that people say his kit is too good for this game (which people consistently say that I don't know what world you are living in). Lee sin can be useful late game as long as you can punish mistakes and you have insane peel for your ADC. Just because they have a bad late game does not make them a bad champion.

If you think that Lee Sin is a shit champion that is useless why don't we look at other champions

Lucian is the top win rate ADC- Only a 55% win rate with 125+ games (compared to a 53% overall)

Volibear is the top win rate jungler- Only a 60% win rate with 125+ games (compared to his 55% overall)

Zyra is the top win rate support- at best 60% win rate with 50-125 games (compared to a 54% overall)

Karthus is the best win rate top laner- 68% win rate with 125+ games (compared to a 59% overall) I cannot find a top lane karthus build so I do not know if he is going tank with a tank ekko approach or going ap for damage

Swain is the top performing mid laner but is confusing to talk about because of his huge nerf that came in the form of the mage update with a buff in the next patch so data is confusing.

If that isn't enough lets look at the top performing (not win rate based)

Gangplank is the top performing top laner with a 56% win rate at best and a 51% average

Nidalee is the top performing jungler with a 58% win rate with 125 games and a 53% average

Anivia is the top performing mid laner with a 59% win rate with 125 games and a 55% average

Lucian is the top performing ADC and I have already talked about him

Blitzcrank is the top performing support with a 58% win rate with 125 games and a 53.5% average

A 65% win rate across over 2500 games is incredibly high becasue it shows that the champion is very, very strong and needs nerfs. As you can see even the top performing champions do not have a win rate of 65% except for karthus which has a .15% pick rate and will either not be nerfed due to the situations that get him the win rate (E.G. countering someone) or will get nerfed because of his staggering win rate.

Looking at the straight data is not all that difficult. I can educate myself very well thank you very much and I advise you to stop valuing your opinions above actual fact.

Astôlfo2 votes

facepalm

Congratulations, you've listed off completely irrelevant data. Azir's winrate over games played doesn't become anything even worth looking at until 50-125 games (~53%), which goes up to 54.4% winrate at 125+ games. His wirnate over games played is a fairly standard linear positive correlation, which supports what I said about him being a hard champion to play but being good once you know how to play him.

The most hilarious thing is that you actually listed off data that completely disproves what you yourself said. Azir's winrate after 125+ games is still a measly 54%, compared to just about any of those other champions you've listed. Wow, he's obviously doing so amazing, am I right? Most overpowered champion with experience with a kit too good for this game? On another note, I haven't seen a single person say those words... except you. Huh, food for thought.

About Lee, let's look at his winrate over experience. Goes from 47.6 in early, plunges to 46, goes back up to 48.02, falls back down to 47.95. Wow, what an incredibly amazing winrate. Sure, he can punish mistakes and give peel if he's incredibly amazing at it. Except... tons of other champions can also do the same, without having to take as many risks or as much of an effort. He's bad. End of story. People play him because they all think they can be that super-flashy LCS guy. They can't. Why? He's just bad.

Now, for the data you listed. It's well known Lucian is plenty strong right now, what's your point? Voli's a good and strong tanky champion with decent damage and great sustain, what's your point? Zyra's update basically put all the power into the AI which does everything for her and makes an incredibly harassing and bullying zoning tool that makes it near impossible to get near her without getting chunked, what's your point? Karthus.... facepalm Sure, just ignore his 0.15% playrate or any other factor that would contribute to it, aka, matchups or item builds or the rest of his team. But sure. Swain... "i don't like this data so I will pretend it doesn't exist" Nice. Good job, 10/10. Gangplank and Nidalee have always been absurdly strong despite nerfs - or lack thereof in some cases. What's your point? Anivia, I don't know much about her so I can't really say much. Lucian, already talked about him. Blitzcrank, you apparently don't know how to read numbers, because last time I checked, 56.98 and 58 were fairly different. His kit's fairly standard. It turns into "Can I land a hook?" If yes, they die (outside of Cleanse/Flash or something). If not, they don't. I'd assume people with that much experience have a good grasp (pun intended) on how to do that successfully. What's your point?

"Looking at the straight data is not all that difficult. " Duh, I assume most people know how to just look at numbers on a page. Except, you apparently can't read either, so I'm not sure you should be saying that.

"I can educate myself very well thank you very much and I advise you to stop valuing your opinions above actual fact." Obviously, you can't, because your attempts to debate are still utter trash, and you literally quote data that disproves the crap you're trying to say. I'd advise you to actually try learning something before attempting to try debating when you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. And for someone (me) that apparently values opinions so much more than data, I've been the one consistently quoting data that disproves you... while... you just resorted to insults initially and quoted data that disproves you. Nice.

Marshbouy1 votes

I never claimed Azir had an OP kit. I said his kit was "Too good for this game". That does not mean it is OP. Something being OP means it outclasses everything else in utility or damage (or both) with no balancing mechanics to make it fine. In the case of Azir he is perfectly balanced becasue his difficulty and squishiness balances him to that nice 55% win rate margin. What I was saying that even a champion with as many options of how to deal with and approach situations like Azir does not have a win rate of 65%. I retract my statement that Lee Sin is a good champion. Happy?

Im sorry what? I'm saying that even the TOP PERFORMING CHAMPIONS DO NOT HAVE A WIN RATE OF 65% EXCEPT FOR KARTHUS. That means that aurelion sol was performing incredibly well, too well. The strongest champions in the game right now are still performing worse with 125 games then aurelion sol was. That is why he was nerfed and why im not some QQ bronzie.

If you paid attention i addressed the issues with karthus. His data is weird and inaccurate because of his minuscule play rate. Champion.gg is bugged and is not displaying build paths for karthus and that is why i cannot comment much on his win rate other than "will either not be nerfed due to the situations that get him the win rate (E.G. countering someone) or will get nerfed because of his staggering win rate." http://champion.gg/champion/Swain Look at swains data and try to tell me it isn't a clusterfuck. Even still at the peak of people playing him he is still only a 60% win rate. I apologize for getting my % off by 1 on blitzcranks win rate. It can be a big difference but it was an honest mistake.

I intentionally walked away from the gray area of "A kit to perfect to be in league" becasue its a shitty concept that i realized was wrong and started to compare top performing champions and their win rates to the win rates of people who are trying to master that champion.

To reiterate I am saying two things about the OPness of aurelion sol before he was nerfed.

  1. Even champions with as many options to handle a situation such as Azir do not have a win rate that high (eventually i realized this point didn't say a whole lot)

  2. Even the top performing champions and their mains do not have win rates of 65% (excluding karthus)

I brought up those champions and their win rates to compare it against aurelion sol's previous win rate and why his win rate was too high. All i am saying is that he was entirely deserving of his nerfs.

Astôlfo1 votes

Alright, that was my bad. I didn't realize you had switched back to Aurelion when you were talking about that, and I thought you were trying to use the data to justify your points about Lee/Azir. I apologize.

Marshbouy1 votes

Ahhhhh okay. that makes perfect sense. its cool dude

Supreme Senpai696 votes

I've made a similar post; his ult does such minor damage that at rank one, it only does a little bit more damage than hitting somebody with ONE star with W on. It can only be used as a way to get somebody off of you-- if you try to kill someone with it, you'll push them back to safety. But even then, if you push someone away with it, there's very little to prevent them from coming back onto you since most champions have mobility.

You also can't use your E in combat. It's a VERY strong ability, but bear with me here.

Because you can't double tap your Q to get somebody off of you, so you can only use it as an initiation.

Which means during the actual fighting, you only have your W, which is simply an upgrade to your passive. There's no trump cards or unpredictability, in order to fight you just right click your cursor to move towards or away from someone.

He's a very strong champion because of his roaming, initiation, and zoning. But he sucks at fighting and feels bad to play. Making a big play basically involves just moving around and letting your W do the work. To do good with Aurelion you need good decision making and mechanical knowledge, knowing when and where to be instead of landing skillshots and fighting.

Which is why he desperately needed his ultimate. It was his one 'fuck you' button, his one source of unsuspected damage, his one way to turn the tides. If someone wanted to, they could completely avoid damage from Aurelion Sol. People just get greedy or make mistakes and get hit by the three visible stars and that's how he deals damage. As of right now, I only use his R to knock enemies back into my team or into my turret, follow it up with a Q stun, and pray the turret/team + me can kill them before they kill me. Usually it works out well but no other champion has to work that hard to have a 52% win rate.

Zedex1 votes

you mean it made him easy ?

Supreme Senpai691 votes

N-no?

Ironclad Dragon4 votes

I wish it was more like a Godzilla breath move. More cinematic and gratifying.

Mishli3 votes

one thing they straight up said when they released aurelion sol, "he has a lot of damage in his w, plus he has huge potential with his e+q, because his main abilities have so much potential, we had to take some of the power out of his ult" yes it doesn't feel like a traditional ult like lux laser, but udyr literally has no ult, i personally don't think just because it's on R it has to be the most important ability, sol is already very different from most other champs, what's wrong with him breaking the mold a bit more?

Stars Shaper1 votes

Yes I remeber that and thank you for bringing it up.

I do feel it's a right assumption that his ultimate won't be so much of a skill per se because of his power budget being eaten by his basic kit, I would like though for it to have a meaning. First they nerfed its slow which was a fair trade since it was a reliable source of damage outside his W. The double damage nerfs anyway hit it too much if added with the 4 seconds CD on W if hit by CC in my opinion. I don't want Aurelion Sol to become the next feast or famine character and that's why I don't mind a nerf in a section of his ultimate if that means that it keeps the other use to his full potential.

I want Riot to decide if it is a peeling skill (and then it means that either the slow gets restored to its release values, I'd be glad with a grounding effect too but that seems way too OP) or a more reliable damage source (which means that it gets back some of its former damage).

Mishli1 votes

I at least agree with your request of 'what's it supposed to be' if i had to hazard a guess, i believe they want it to compliment his w, but were looking for ways to nerf him (he had the single highest win rate of any champion by players very skilled with him) that didn't completely gut his passive/w, which is what he's really about, kind of like if they nerfed darius's free armor pen, as that's not what he's about exactly

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

You want an actually weak champ, Fiora 5th lowest wimraye top in plat plus with an abysmal pick ban ratio

Stars Shaper2 votes

Again, I'm not talking about him being a weak character.

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