On Shen, his problems, his strengths, discussion on fixes (cont. from aatrox thread)

BecauseItsFunny··2 votes·723 views
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/alR9fGRR-can-we-replace-aatroxs-ultimate-steroid-with-an-aoe-fear

Disclaimer: This is an alternate account I'm using to avoid preconceptions.

I've seen some discussion on Shen and ways to improve him, strangely on an Aatrox discussion here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/alR9fGRR-can-we-replace-aatroxs-ultimate-steroid-with-an-aoe-fear

I think it's actually a simpler problem to fix than people think. His main issue is energy, and in the past, he required nerfs because some aspects of his kit made him too strong. Both these problems can be fixed by moving some of his abilities to be more conditional, like his health regen (examples below), and others to be more controllable, like his energy refund (again, examples below). You can accomplish this simply by moving some abilities to different parts of his kit. Below is an example kit that experiments with different gating and counterplay mechanisms than he has now, while keeping the numbers relatively the same. (Credit to much of this goes to the wiki.) Bold for new, Strikethrough for removed

  • Ki Strike: STATIC Cooldown: 9 Shen's next basic attack drains 10 / 15 / 20 energy and deals bonus magic damage equal to 4 + (4 × Shen's level) + (10% of Shen's bonus health) and restores 10 / 20 / 30 Energy. Every basic attack reduces the cooldown by 1 second, up to 2 seconds while Feint holds.** If Shen kills a unit with Ki Strike, he restores 10 / 15 /20 (+ 1.5% Shen's maximum health) hp over 2 seconds.**

  • Vorpal Blade; Range: 475, Cost: 60 energy, Cooldown: 6 / 5.5 / 5 / 4.5 / 4 Active: Shen throws a blade at the target enemy, dealing magic damage and marking them for 5 3 / 3.5 / 4 / 4.5 / 5 seconds. Shen and allied champions that damage a marked enemy will heal over 3 seconds, with the duration refreshing upon subsequent damage. Basic attacks and single target abilities by Shen and allies reduce the cooldown of Ki Strike by 0.5 seconds If Vorpal Blade kills the target, Shen heals for 33% of the normal amount instantly. the cooldown of Ki Strike is reduced by 2 seconds. Magic damage: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP), Heal: 6 / 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 (+ 1.5% Shen's maximum health), Instant Heal: 2 / 3 / 5 / 6 / 7 (+ 0.5% Shen's maximum health)

  • Feint; Cost: 50 energy None, Cooldown: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 Active: Shen gains a shield that absorbs a certain amount of damage. The shield dissipates after 3 seconds if not already destroyed. While the shield persists, Shen's basic attacks reduce the cooldown of Ki Strike by an additional 1 second (2 seconds total). (See Stand United for Feint interaction) Shield: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP)

  • Shadow Dash (UNCHANGED)

  • Stand United; Range: Global, Cooldown: 200 / 180 / 160 Active: Target allied champion gains a shield that absorbs a certain amount of damage. The shield dissipates after 5 seconds if not already destroyed. After 3 seconds of channeling, Shen teleports to the allied champion. Passive: If Feint's shield is broken before it dissipates, Shen gains 10 / 20 / 30 energy.

This concludes my example model. TLDR: I moved the heal to a more conditional position to allow more counterplay, increased the cd of feint, but removed its cost and gave it energy refund after level 6 (since blue restores energy and early Ki Strike is inexpensive, I believed reducing his lane bully capacity outweighed the jungle cost), did not change dash, made Ki Strike more powerful with allies via Vorpal Blade interaction and required a choice between both damage to champions vs. sustain rather than being able to do both, as well as giving clear signs of when Shen is at his strongest and a sane strength curve

I fully welcome general discussion about Shen as well as criticism of my idea, or ideas of your own!

4 Comments

Shahamut1 votes

What do you think of something like this for a ninja tank?

Passive: Feint/Ghost Walk

Shen takes X% reduced damage from basic attacks and Y% reduced damage from AoE spells.

After Shen takes damage from 10 such attacks, he goes invisible for 2 seconds, and gains 50% movement speed and the ability to move through units. The next attack Shen makes after exiting stealth hits all targets around him and restores 30 energy. Shen does not gain stacks of this passive for 5 seconds after exiting stealth.

Basically, what Im picturing here is Shen doing his job as a tank and getting into the fight, then disappearing after he takes focus for a while, to re-position and start it up again. He gets in your face as a tank and draws aggro "GET HIM!!!" then is suddenly gone... or behind you... "WHERE ARE YOU!?" "... here... "

Then just make his W Ki-Strike, which would give him an auto attack reset. Add a slow to the strike, and we have some extra cc for priority targets.

Then add a passive onto his Ultimate that says qualifying attacks vs the target of your shield count for stacks on your passive. Then there is that fun chance that Shen might show up invisible. :)

BecauseItsFunny1 votes

{quoted}

i think you nerfed support shen with that one.

otherwise i don't think this changes too much, if shen is to remain the tanky ninja i think he needs either a stealth ability or some more cc for a more impactful feel in gameplay.

item 3302 ? Relic shield also provides a heal to both the executor and the nearest champion. It DOES nerf his ally healing though, yes. On the other hand, his all-in is significantly stronger, especially with allies, so it would more change his focus. How would you do it though, if you were designing it?

{quoted}

What do you think of something like this for a ninja tank?

Passive: Feint/Ghost Walk

Shen takes X% reduced damage from basic attacks and Y% reduced damage from AoE spells.

After Shen takes damage from 10 such attacks, he goes invisible for 2 seconds, and gains 50% movement speed and the ability to move through units. The next attack Shen makes after exiting stealth hits all targets around him and restores 30 energy. Shen does not gain stacks of this passive for 5 seconds after exiting stealth.

Basically, what Im picturing here is Shen doing his job as a tank and getting into the fight, then disappearing after he takes focus for a while, to re-position and start it up again. He gets in your face as a tank and draws aggro "GET HIM!!!" then is suddenly gone... or behind you... "WHERE ARE YOU!?" "... here... "

Then just make his W Ki-Strike, which would give him an auto attack reset. Add a slow to the strike, and we have some extra cc for priority targets.

Then add a passive onto his Ultimate that says qualifying attacks vs the target of your shield count for stacks on your passive. Then there is that fun chance that Shen might show up invisible. :)

I don't think a non-ult stealth on a champ with a non-ult linear/piercing AoE engage that can also double as an escape is really good for balance, even by itself (yeah, oracle lens, but still). Adding more to that is just overwhelming.

Shahamut1 votes

I don't think a non-ult stealth on a champ with a non-ult linear/piercing AoE engage that can also double as an escape is really good for balance, even by itself (yeah, oracle lens, but still). Adding more to that is just overwhelming.

The stealth is contingent upon him doing his job as a tank (taking hits) and helps him to engage. It CAN double as an escape, which will help his split push, and honestly, in the "League of Mobility" this is really nothing. The biggest thing is trying to capture the "ninja" side of Shen, without making him another assassin...

Protector/Tank Ninja is difficult to do, but I think this would at least be a step in the right direction... or misdirection... ?

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

If Shen kills a unit with Ki Strike, he restores 10 / 15 /20 (+ 1.5% Shen's maximum health) hp over 2 seconds.

i think you nerfed support shen with that one.

otherwise i don't think this changes too much, if shen is to remain the tanky ninja i think he needs either a stealth ability or some more cc for a more impactful feel in gameplay.

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