We need more bans.

Kreissage·Jan 2, 2017·108 votes·5,044 views

Out of the 123 champions in League of Legends, 6 bans is NOT enough. The game is literally ran down a select few. Let's point them out.

Top lane: We got with a few exceptions of .

Jungle:

Mid lane:

Support:

ADC:

That's a total of 22 champions out of the 123 total champions there is to offer, yes, I know there's more, but those are the most FREQUENT right now. If you're banning Caitlyn for example, well, you're facing a Jhin then. So on and so forth. It's beginning to honestly bore me, fighting the same shit over and over again.

116 Comments

theArtifactsJan 3, 201724 votes

Don't upvote this shit thread. OP doesn't know how to read the forums. They wont increase bans until the new client is complete and the old client is abolished.

KreissageJan 3, 20175 votes

The forums are here for posting opinions. You're telling people to downvote something because you don't like my opinion, go cry some more.

ElewdJan 3, 201717 votes

the problem is that your opinion is already answered, in length. SEVERAL times. Riot flat out has said they will most likely increase to 10 bans once the new client is the only client.

drakuIa421Jan 3, 20173 votes

basically a waste of a thread

Blast DeadliftJan 2, 201716 votes

Downvoted for midlane.

Put lux there instead.

Anivia isn't bad and ur missing annie.

Forgetting twitch.

KreissageJan 2, 20175 votes

Oh yeah, let me add her

Blast DeadliftJan 2, 20175 votes

upvoted.

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20173 votes

Why Ahri and Jhin? Yes people play Ahri a lot and she's ungankable post 6 usually, but she's not that overpowered. Jhin, like most ADCs right now, isn't relevant until 3 items or so. Though he is a lane bully.

Also, where is Ryze, Camille, and Rengar?

KreissageJan 3, 20176 votes

"Yes, I know there are others, but those are the MOST frequent"

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20176 votes

Frequency =/= strong.

Spice POWAHJan 3, 20176 votes

Frequency can lead to annoying, though.

It's the whole reason Lee Sin is getting even more annoying.

KreissageJan 3, 20175 votes

Frequency USUALLY means that the champ is strong, you don't see Urgot and Aatrox in every single one of you games.

Spice POWAHJan 3, 20172 votes

Yeah, frequency means strong, but frequency can cause a champ to become annoying. That usually happens when there's a Lee Sin almost every game, when the vayne crit build was popular, and now seeing cait so often is making me want to start banning her.

SoulsieJan 3, 20171 votes

Missing Riven ???

and Twitch ???

KreissageJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Missing ???

and ???

"Yes, I know there are others, but those are the MOST frequent"

aspects1Jan 3, 20173 votes

twitch is def 3rd strongest after vayne and cait

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20171 votes

MF? Hello?

aspects1Jan 3, 20171 votes

at least you can kill mf although twitch has no mobility, he can invis and position really well, and he has ultra high range mf can be jumped by an assassin

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20171 votes

Twitch can be jumped by an assassin. MF has range. Her ult.

aspects1Jan 3, 20171 votes

but twitch waits till the fight starts, then appears out of nowhere in a rondom spot and starts ulting and everyone dies. at least you can track mf

AirKingNeoJan 4, 20171 votes

You simply need deep wards to see when twitch's Q is on cooldown. Never take a fight you don't have vision on.

aspects1Jan 5, 20171 votes

he can invis for i think 20s, which is enoguh time for a fight to start

AirKingNeoJan 5, 20171 votes

14 seconds

Synnx7Jan 3, 201714 votes

130+ champs. only 30 viable. gg riot . muh balance

KreissageJan 3, 20174 votes

Gotta love it man

AeszarckJan 3, 201710 votes

Hey Kreissage! bestbans.com is an awesome site for seeing which champions you should ban at your League.

Kreissage, you're probably going to place Silver according to op.gg and LoLKing, so we'd look at the Silver league. The top champions are, in this order: (67), Blitzcrank (38), Camille (35), Darius (35), Janna (30), Shyvana (29), Ziggs (26), Ahri (24), Hecarim (24), Sona (21), Annie (21), and (19). What are those numbers? Those are the approximate amounts of games that you'll lose to those Champions every ten thousand games, assuming that you aren't picking them yourself. (The formula: 10,000 x (WR - 50%) x (PR / (100% - BR))

Let's look at your bans. is a good idea. is a bad idea - you'll win six more games if you don't ban him. Yep, his influence is -6. Silver players just aren't consistent enough on the champion for him to be a good ban. is -9. is -22. is 8.

Remember, you shouldn't be banning because a Champion seems to be overpowered or is frustrating, you should be banning the strongest, most picked Champions that you or your teammates won't be picking so that you win more games. You will be hurting yourself if you are banning Jayce, Poppy, or Gnar in Silver League. Yasuo is not an optimal ban, though if he counters your team composition (or even just you) it may be worth it to ban him.

is -6. is a good ban. is the absolute worst ban possible, sitting at -87. You will win 87 more games per 10000 if you do not ban . is a good ban. is a good ban.

is -36. is a good ban. is a good ban. is -25. is 8. is -7.

is a good ban. is 16. is -44. is -14.

is 2. is 2. is -6. is -75, the second worst ban for Silver League. You will win 75 more games per 10000 if you do not ban Ezreal. is 5.

I hope you realize that many of the Champions that you are proposing banning are actually harmful to you if you ban them, because that means that you aren't using a ban on a higher priority Champion, and you will be denying yourself the extra wins you will be getting by facing those Champions. Secondly, many of the high priority champions aren't on your list. They might not seem overpowered, but their high win rates and pick rates will cause you to lose quite a few more games than many of the other champions on your list. I think you need to revise your post a bit.

BlåbæretJan 3, 20171 votes

Best bans is useless. The numbers you pull out here are nonsense lol. What your best ban is entirely depends on you as a player, teamp comp and so on.

Jew StomperJan 3, 20177 votes

I might be making assumptions, but I assume many lower ranked players don't fully understand their weaknesses or team comps.

Cosmic WarperJan 3, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I might be making assumptions, but I assume many lower ranked players don't fully understand their weaknesses or team comps.

No, you're right. Low elo players don't know team comp pros and cons at all

Oakleaf RangerJan 3, 20171 votes

It's a pretty good list based just on statics. Personally the only adc worth banning is Caitlyn, adc's in general have minimal impact on the game early on. Caitlyn is just so dominant in laning that she feels like an exception though. Janna is more of reactive champion than proactive, so she isn't really worth the ban even if she is good. Support mains have plenty of champs that dumpster her anyway. Syndra, JAYCE and Zac are still pretty good bans.

AeszarckJan 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It's a pretty good list based just on statics. Personally the only adc worth banning is Caitlyn, adc's in general have minimal impact on the game early on. Caitlyn is just so dominant in laning that she feels like an exception though. Janna is more of reactive champion than proactive, so she isn't really worth the ban even if she is good. Support mains have plenty of champs that dumpster her anyway. Syndra, JAYCE and Zac are still pretty good bans.

Exactly, it is just based on statistics*. Something objective should be based on statistics, because otherwise, it will be based on opinion and be subsequently biased. Just because YOU feel like Caitlyn is the only marksman worth picking doesn't mean that is the case. This site takes data from the Riot API for every game in all different Leagues daily. It isn't being biased when it tells you that if you played 10000 games, you'd lose 67 more to Vi when she isn't banned compared to losing two more when Caitlyn isn't banned.

Why would Syndra be a good ban and not Janna, when Syndra has a winrate below fifty in Silver while Janna's winrate is above fifty? You are going to win 66/10000 more games if you switch your ban from Syndra to Janna, assuming the champions you play don't counter Janna or suck against Syndra.

Janna isn't overpowered, but that's not the point. The point is that she has a positive winrate and a high playrate, which means that she will make you lose more games against her unless you're playing her yourself.

Oakleaf RangerJan 3, 20171 votes

Because unlike Janna, Syndra is an S tier carry champion right now. Essentially one of the best at winning if played well without the same mechanics required to do well as someone like lee sin. The Impact she is capable of having is so high that she can probably 1v5. I'm just removing the nuclear option from the table is all.

AeszarckJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because unlike Janna, Syndra is an S tier carry champion right now. Essentially one of the best at winning if played well without the same mechanics required to do well as someone like lee sin. The Impact she is capable of having is so high that she can probably 1v5. I'm just removing the nuclear option from the table is all.

You're right that she can carry, but she has a higher chance of doing terribly or at least not contributing enough to turn the game into a victory. That's why her winrate is below 50%. Janna might not seem overpowered, but she contributes more to her team on average. That's why she has a higher winrate.

Syndra might seem better for a team because it seems like she can do tons of damage and carries, but her winrate says otherwise, at least for Silver tier players like me and Kreissage. Janna is better at winning games than Syndra. Why would you not ban her?

Think about it from the influence perspective. When you ban Syndra, you stop yourself from getting thirty-six free wins over ten thousand games. Is getting less wins overall an acceptable outcome of banning a champion that you hate? You are literally handicapping your team by blind-banning Syndra. Janna, on the other hand, will make you lose thirty games in the next ten thousand. Why would you not ban a champion that is going to make you lose those thirty games? You are giving up your free wins by banning Syndra and you are enabling more losses by leaving Janna open.

Do you care about something other than winning or losing? If you do, fine. If you want to win as much as the next guy though, your argument doesn't make logical sense.

To summarize, why does Janna have a higher winrate than Syndra in Silver? Because Janna carries better than Syndra in Silver. Now, who do you ban?

Oakleaf RangerJan 3, 20171 votes

I go into games assuming the best from enemy and the worst from my team until proven otherwise. I work with dealing with good Janna. A good Syndra becomes almost impossible to slow down once she gets going. Assuming the best from my enemy they have to be at least confident in their skill with Syndra to pick her in ranked. Why she will almost always take priority over banning Janna. I don't even ban Syndra, since my go to ban is Jayce but its same reasons for banning her.

AeszarckJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I go into games assuming the best from enemy and the worst from my team until proven otherwise. I work with dealing with good Janna. A good Syndra becomes almost impossible to slow down once she gets going. Assuming the best from my enemy they have to be at least confident in their skill with Syndra to pick her in ranked. Why she will almost always take priority over banning Janna. I don't even ban Syndra, since my go to ban is Jayce but its same reasons for banning her.

The thing is, even if a large majority of ranked Syndra players are mastery level five (and therefore most likely are competent), which they are (I can find the source for that later if you care), they're still not performing as well as Janna players on average. A Syndra will do worse than a Janna on average; otherwise, why would she have a lower winrate? (Please answer this question, it's not rhetorical.)

Also, I've been assuming you were Silver this whole conversation, sorry. In Gold, Jayce and Syndra both have positive influences (9 and 5, respectively); still, neither is quite as strong as Janna with her 63 influence.

Oakleaf RangerJan 3, 20171 votes

statiscially yah are right. But Janna is an enabler ( a good one) but not a carry. Don't matter how much she enables her team if I put them in the dirt. You know who is hard to put on the dirt when even and ridiculous when ahead? That's Syndra and Jayce. They are the ones who at the bare bones win the game not Janna.

AeszarckJan 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

statiscially yah are right. But Janna is an enabler ( a good one) but not a carry. Don't matter how much she enables her team if I put them in the dirt. You know who is hard to put on the dirt when even and ridiculous when ahead? That's Syndra and Jayce. They are the ones who at the bare bones win the game not Janna.

You recognize that Janna is a good enabler; why can't you recognize that she can carry? Supports do not necessarily need to do large amounts of damage in order to carry a team. A support with great disengage can carry her team by stopping them from dying. Janna's method of carrying a team might not be as tangible as support Vel'Koz disintegrating champions or support Blitzcrank pulling off flawless hooks, but the general winrate shows that what she is doing is working. Syndra's being hard to "put on the dirt" is your opinion. It has a lot of merit; Syndra has long range and her Unleashed Power is pretty great. However, she's also quite slow and is therefore punished harshly by positioning errors. That, along with Sphere management and skillshots, is why she has a poor winrate in Silver. You're better than that and you're seeing better Syndra players, but the data show that she still isn't as impactful as Janna in Gold League.

You're right that a damage champion will win the game by killing other champions, but that does not mean that they're necessarily better. I don't know if this will change your mind, but imagine Janna got buffed so her ultimate healed allies to full health each tick and her shield gave double the current damage. She's still an enabler and her teammates still have to do the damage in order to win the game, but she's overpowered beyond belief. Unless your teammate wanted to play her, you would ban her, right?

Janna isn't that strong right now, but she still has a better winrate than Syndra and Jayce, and thus will cause you to lose more games to her than they to them.

Oakleaf RangerJan 4, 20171 votes

If Janna got that kind of buff then yes, but the chances of that happening is the same as Syndra getting buffed. Her impact on the game is just overshadowed by carry champions. Alistar, Braum, bliz, can all peel as well but that just isn't enough to warrant a ban. It isn't Janna knocking down towers, taking objectives, and getting kills. It the carries. Janna by herself is nothing to worry about. Any carry is. I'm not saying she doesn't have a impact, but can she brute force wins like Syndra?

AeszarckJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If Janna got that kind of buff then yes, but the chances of that happening is the same as Syndra getting buffed. Her impact on the game is just overshadowed by carry champions. Alistar, Braum, bliz, can all peel as well but that just isn't enough to warrant a ban. It isn't Janna knocking down towers, taking objectives, and getting kills. It the carries. Janna by herself is nothing to worry about. Any carry is. I'm not saying she doesn't have a impact, but can she brute force wins like Syndra?

My point was that you'd most likely ban any champion, even an enabler, if it became that blatantly stronger than every other champion in League. Let's assume Janna's influence is 600 in that situation. She'd cause you to lose very many games, so it would be logical to ban her. Janna isn't quite that strong right now, but she's still showing an influence well above that of Syndra (63 to 5 in the case of Gold League.) Why would the logic not hold true there? Would you stop banning Janna if her influence dropped down to 200 after nerfs? If it was still the highest in League, I wouldn't, and I certainly wouldn't ban Syndra over Janna until Janna's influence dropped below Syndra's. (Unless Syndra countered me pretty hard or my team was the magic bullet to defeat Janna, or some situation such as that.) The thing about Janna is that it doesn't seem like she's brute forcing wins like Syndra because she deals little damage, but she is most definitely forcing wins by letting other champions on her team succeed, just in a subtle, less appreciable way. Again, she wouldn't have a high winrate if it wasn't some aspect of her kit that was allowing her to win a lot of games in Silver and Gold.

Oakleaf RangerJan 4, 20171 votes

I acknowledge her strengths and have respect for them. I know that while she isn't as flashy as Syndra that she can play a crucial role for the win. what makes her strong though is her reactive play not her proactive play. She is one of the best at turning dives and keeping monkeys alive. Essentially she is good at punishing bad enemy play. Without that though she doesn't bring much to the table. Unlike Syndra, her ability to control the pace of the game is low. So unless her numbers become busted, I'm banning the champions most likely to create momentum for their team that are difficult to play around and stop.

GULAG 4 UJan 3, 20172 votes

What sort of bullshit is this

Where is ryze cassiopiea kha'zix rengar

hello?

NineTailedMysticJan 3, 20172 votes

Who bans Ahri lol

CarameI FrappeJan 3, 20172 votes

Riven <---- This champ. I want her out, but when I ban her I have to deal with them very likely picking Camille LeeSin MasterYi Katarina god dang you get rid of 1 champion that's ban worthy and the enemy team will just pick the next broken / cheese champion. We really do need more bans please Riot.

Jew StomperJan 3, 20174 votes

That'll happen even if you get more bans. Everyone will just go down the list.

cookiemonster cmJan 3, 20172 votes

I believe that we should get 10 bans to account for the ever growing "OP" champion pool we have had 6 bans for too long and quite frankly it feels very outdated

Jew StomperJan 3, 20172 votes

Maybe Riot is getting better at balancing?