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Lissandra's passive is screaming for a rework.

No Fetty No Wap··124 votes·7,669 views

Iceborn - "Every 18 seconds, Lissandra's next ability costs no mana. Cooldown reduction does not affect Iceborn, but the cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Lissandra impairs an enemy's movement with an ability (does not apply to movement-impairing effects from items)."

           With over 120,000 mastery on my favorite champion, what I say comes from the very soul. I have  _rarely_  felt the actual impact of Lissandra's passive. Not in lane phase, not in mid game, and **most defintely** not in team fights. The passive is so inconsistent that my own highlight experiences culminate with; "!! my ultimate was randomly free and now I have enough mana to throw an extra Q. neat!" But is "neat" really what the devs are looking for in champion design? The name itself sounds sinister, but often comes up short of fulfilling Lissandra's fantasy of "Ice witch." Lately champion design has traveled to the realm of "real and interesting moment by moment interactive decisions". Lissandra's uninteresting and less than interactive passive is truly a relic of the past. 

          Realistically, the passive is self defeating. A passive that requires more mana to receive less mana? It just feels wrong, and doesn't fit with her kit. So many exciting and **balanced** routes could be taken with her passive. An underwhelming and inconsistent passive just doesn't fit the bill.

Thoughts? Any fellow Lissandra mains?

Edit: Please don't assume that I have no idea how to use the passive to it's fullest current iteration. Currently I use it to poke efficiently in lane, and nab a few minions before backing when OOM. It feels so linear and frankly, gating, to the true potential of the ICE WITCH.

104 Comments

Dracocrash33 votes

lissandra has a passive?! I thought they took her passive and gave it to yasuo, so that he could have a double passive. Kappa

Zackeryss7 votes

I thought her passive was her ult for the first year of my playing league, I kid you not.

B1naryB0t7 votes

"When receiving lethal damage, Lissandra becomes entombed in ice, making her invulnerable and untargetable."

50000000000000001 votes

So we should just give double crit chance to Lissandra and turn her into a bot lane carry?

Devack The Holy3 votes

Mordekaiser : Telling you right now, that isn't going to work. Marksmen are INSANE.

Krys Star24 votes

I mentioned a few months ago that Lissandra's passive, as an Iceborn, should enhance her abilities.

Iceborn STATIC COOLDOWN: 18 Lissandra's next ability periodically has no cost and is enhanced.

Ice Shard: Now slows all affected targets by 16 / 19 / 22 / 25 / 28% Ring of Frost: Increases radius and duration by 50%, up to 1.65 / 1.80 / 1.95 / 2.10 / 2.25 Glacial Path: Travels twice as fast, as well as refunding 30% of its cooldown Frozen Tomb: Dark ice expands and covers its area of effect instantly

Granted these changes might be a little too strong, but it can be adjusted as needed. At least it adds some spice and flavor to her passive, on top of her original passive so that she can keep high mana cost on Q instead of abusing its slow and damage with a low mana output.

Çhåryzård4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Sovereign,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjtLui1P,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-05-08T01:53:14.410+0000)

I mentioned a few months ago that Lissandra's passive, as an Iceborn, should enhance her abilities.

Iceborn STATIC COOLDOWN: 18 Lissandra's next ability periodically has no cost and is enhanced.

Ice Shard: Now slows all affected targets by 16 / 19 / 22 / 25 / 28% Ring of Frost: Increases radius and duration by 50%, up to 1.65 / 1.80 / 1.95 / 2.10 / 2.25 Glacial Path: Travels twice as fast, as well as refunding 30% of its cooldown Frozen Tomb: Dark ice expands and covers its area of effect instantly

Granted these changes might be a little too strong, but it can be adjusted as needed. At least it adds some spice and flavor to her passive, on top of her original passive so that she can keep high mana cost on Q instead of abusing its slow and damage with a low mana output.

Something like this would be a lot better than what she currently has

Doctor Jarvis9 votes

...it would be strictly better, as it's the old one PLUS extra.

Bløød Zerø1 votes

Cough this idea was given to Nunu's passive cough.

Ratbert3 votes

That feels like a karma ult on a passive.

Average Bard14 votes

Lissandra will only get a rework once the Watchers return.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

so never since the watchers are all dead? jk thats just my head cannon in my head cannon the watchers are all extinct except for one which is dying and if she runs into it.In desperation it will try to drain away all her life-force to keep itself alive.

Supreme Senpai693 votes

Everybody said the watchers all died and were extinct, but Lissandra ordered all knowledge related to them to be destroyed, so it's probable that at least a few more are out there.

Auryiel8 votes

What really pisses me off about Lissandra's passive is that her mana costs and mana regen are aggressively tuned to be shitty AS AN EXCUSE FOR HER PASSIVE.

It's just so... wrong.

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

What really pisses me off about Lissandra's passive is that her mana costs and mana regen are aggressively tuned to be shitty AS AN EXCUSE FOR HER PASSIVE.

It's just so... wrong.

Did you even consider that might be by design? It is not like the rest of her kit makes her under preform.

Auryiel2 votes

I'm not saying she's weak I'm saying I think it's a bad design

Evewynn6 votes

I will agree it is not interesting.

Lissandra is pretty balanced, however; would you be prepared to take power away from other parts of her kit in order to have a more impactful passive?

StankyMuff1 votes

She's balanced but is currently underperforming and I think she just needs a slight lovetap to some of her numbers. Having her passive scale with CDR or being slightly more useful in some way would help bring her closer to 50% winrate.

M Dragon142 votes

Under performing in what way?

SaltyToplaneGoat5 votes

They should play more on her ice theme tho.

Like a passive that causes the freeze the area around her, the more the longer she's in an area. Enemies inside that reas slowly build up frost-stacks thyt interact with her abilities.

That would at leats be fitting in terms of theme I guess...

CasterGilgamesh3 votes

omg thats perfect or maybe like a frost version of sunfires cape that slows enemies close to her and damages them per second to cap on her having to get up close to do her damage and making it harder on enemies to be close

63536895_DEL5 votes

Lissandra has the 3rd lowest mana regen at level 1 and is tied for the lowest at level 18. Lissandra's passive only covers up her terrible mana regen, it might actually be better if she had normal mana regen and literally no passive.

Lissandra doesn't have a passive, her mana regen is the worst in the game, and her passive is only there so that she has one, it doesn't actually do anything, it's usefulness might actually be negative, since she might get more mana from having normal mana regen than she saves with her passive.

MIDplsorFeed4 votes

I dodnt like her Passive too ... maybe it is on eraly nice but now with the new AP items her passive is going to be useless

J Eevo4 votes

It's not really fair to say that the passive has no impact since it does do a thing to make her spend less mana. The thing is, the mana from the passive is actually taken out of her base stats(Lissandra has the worst mana regeneration out of all mages, and almost all champions overall) so her passive ends up being a "I have maneregen here instead of in my stats".

It has been brought up several times, and she was considered for a passive change back when she was about to get a buff but the designer's decided against it and the buff resulting was just the addition of healing on her R.

As for the MYMU it has been stated that Lissandra won't be touched, even though the response was that her passive was a prime candidate for change if she ever needs one.

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

her passive is worthless now that every mana hungry mage can just build item 3070 to do basically the same thing allow them to spam spells cheaply

Trias0004 votes
  1. Remove Lissandra's passive.
  2. Give her lower spell costs and mana regen comparable to other mages.
  3. ????
  4. Nothing really changes.

Therefore, she doesn't really have a passive, just her mana regen (a stat that most champions in the game have) is shifted somewhere else partially.

Romans 83 votes

Her passive isn't interesting, but it's ok where it is. I'd rather them leave her the way she is than give her a worse/awkward passive and butcher her kit, as they did with Cass and Zyra.

Elewd5 votes

you clearly don't play zyra, because her new passive is 300x better than her old one. i dont have to die to use a clunky ass 2 second delayed skillshot that does 150 true damage, because lets face it, if you die at level 18 to get the 430 true damage you probably lost the game.

Romans 86 votes

{quoted}

you clearly don't play zyra, because her new passive is 300x better than her old one. i dont have to die to use a clunky ass 2 second delayed skillshot that does 150 true damage, because lets face it, if you die at level 18 to get the 430 true damage you probably lost the game.

I play Zyra all the time, she is one of my go to supports. She did need a new passive, but this passive is awkward and unwieldy- why is it just an RNG extension of W? She should be able to grow a garden, but not this way. The implementation is wrong. It could have been done so much better- ppl accept mediocrity because they don't understand potential.

Have at ye2 votes

Yeah man, Zyra may have gained movementspeed and more seeds, but with the removal of damage+ratio off of her Q and plants, it's kind of a nerf when you get ahead in a game. You can't secure a kill as easily on someone because of the damage nerfs, you just have to HOPE they mess up around your plants. Where's the playmaking potential in that? They shifted the active playstyle of setting up plants and trying to nuke people before they can nuke you into trying to bait them into plant gardens that you can't place actively. Sure, her overall damage potential is larger, but she doesn't determine on her own whether it gets to be used as much as before...

kaltenashes3 votes

still better than syndra's, she can only use hers when she max an ability

kile1474 votes

I mean she also has the hidden passive of being able to move while casting.

Auryiel1 votes

Only on her Q and W

And it's hardly hidden, it says you can do it in the abilities' tooltips

kile1472 votes

That is such a powerful skill though and practically deserves its own tooltip.

WoonStruck3 votes

Trust me, you don't want anyone reworking anything on her. She won't be usable after they're done with her.

Automatis3 votes

Imo mana passives are a bit outdated and generic.

You know how almost every AD champ gets some passive steroid stapled to one of their abilities? Well imo they should staple mages' mana passives onto an ability. Veigar, Liss, Xerath, Swain, etc... Veigar's passive already was reworked, but they could have put his equilibrium passive on like Event Horizon.

For Liss put her current passive on say Glacial Path and give her a new one.

BottleCapster3 votes

What if Lissandra had a passive that gave her movement speed around slowed/immobilized targets/champions? Without her current passive, she could have regular mana regeneration. and with a little extra MS, she could be slightly less reliant on her highly predictable E for gap-closing. Currently Lissandra kind of goes in, and hopes for the best. Her base MS isn't anything to write home about, and her spells are all really short-ranged anyways.

TotalJerk3 votes

It reminds me of their reasoning behind changing Veigar's passive. They said it felt like little more than an excuse to give him high mana costs. Well Lissandra's feels like an excuse to give her low mana regen.

CHOPSTICKUHH3 votes

I have literally been posting threads about this since I got into Lissandra. Riot please consider a new passive

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

I have literally been posting threads about this since I got into Lissandra. Riot please consider a new passive

Where should she be nerfed to make room for this extra power?

CHOPSTICKUHH1 votes

{quoted}

Where should she be nerfed to make room for this extra power?

I don't think she has to be nerfed to give her a new passive, her new passive doesn't even need to even be damage based, Lissandra players (including me) are literally just asking for a passive that's just useful to her kit. Like the original post says

It's kind of counter intuitive to spend more mana just to gain a little free mana

Poske2 votes

[{quoted}](name=No Fetty No Wap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjtLui1P,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-07T21:41:47.378+0000)

Iceborn - "Every 18 seconds, Lissandra's next ability costs no mana. Cooldown reduction does not affect Iceborn, but the cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Lissandra impairs an enemy's movement with an ability (does not apply to movement-impairing effects from items)."

           With over 120,000 mastery on my favorite champion, what I say comes from the very soul. I have  _rarely_  felt the actual impact of Lissandra's passive. Not in lane phase, not in mid game, and **most defintely** not in team fights. The passive is so inconsistent that my own highlight experiences culminate with; "!! my ultimate was randomly free and now I have enough mana to throw an extra Q. neat!" But is "neat" really what the devs are looking for in champion design? The name itself sounds sinister, but often comes up short of fulfilling Lissandra's fantasy of "Ice witch." Lately champion design has traveled to the realm of "real and interesting moment by moment interactive decisions". Lissandra's uninteresting and less than interactive passive is truly a relic of the past. 

          Realistically, the passive is self defeating. A passive that requires more mana to receive less mana? It just feels wrong, and doesn't fit with her kit. So many exciting and **balanced** routes could be taken with her passive. An underwhelming and inconsistent passive just doesn't fit the bill.

Thoughts? Any fellow Lissandra mains?

If she gets to have an actual passive

Then she could use a nerf

Something tells me that 2 sec cooldown q is good hit

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

she already is nerfed by having the passive by having unholy mana cost to damage ratio on just Q alone not to mention terrible mana regen nerfs and mana regen being non existent.Also her burst isnt that good and she has the lowest spell range of any mage.Underpowered mage is Underpowered

IcyPepper2 votes

I think it'd be more interesting if every 18~whatever seconds, her next spell left an ice slowing field of where it traveled for a few seconds, making her more capable of zoning.

71883083DEL12 votes

[{quoted}](name=No Fetty No Wap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjtLui1P,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-07T21:41:47.378+0000)

Iceborn - "Every 18 seconds, Lissandra's next ability costs no mana. Cooldown reduction does not affect Iceborn, but the cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Lissandra impairs an enemy's movement with an ability (does not apply to movement-impairing effects from items)."

           With over 120,000 mastery on my favorite champion, what I say comes from the very soul. I have  _rarely_  felt the actual impact of Lissandra's passive. Not in lane phase, not in mid game, and **most defintely** not in team fights. The passive is so inconsistent that my own highlight experiences culminate with; "!! my ultimate was randomly free and now I have enough mana to throw an extra Q. neat!" But is "neat" really what the devs are looking for in champion design? The name itself sounds sinister, but often comes up short of fulfilling Lissandra's fantasy of "Ice witch." Lately champion design has traveled to the realm of "real and interesting moment by moment interactive decisions". Lissandra's uninteresting and less than interactive passive is truly a relic of the past. 

          Realistically, the passive is self defeating. A passive that requires more mana to receive less mana? It just feels wrong, and doesn't fit with her kit. So many exciting and **balanced** routes could be taken with her passive. An underwhelming and inconsistent passive just doesn't fit the bill.

Thoughts? Any fellow Lissandra mains?

i dont main lissandra cause she cant handle team work

Irelia Bot2 votes

Lissandra's passive is much like a passive support.

It is not flashy, it does not scream #LCSBIGPLAYS but if it was not there you would be feeling the effects.

It is not like her abilities are on the cheap side for mana costs these days either costing 85, 50, 80 to 100 and 100.

It is likely intended to be a limiting factor on her more then anything.

Quepha1 votes

Do you want a stronger passive? Where on the kit do you want the compensation nerf to go?

Nanuk Pihoqahiak3 votes

Does she need compensation nerfs? How often do you actually see Lissandra being played? She already has subpar range and high mana costs for how spammy she is.

A new passive that shifts her in a better direction could open her to being played in new ways that don't involve damage necessarily.

PSOCALY1 votes

What if they gave her a new passive that's kinda like Karma's ult

After casting 5 or 6 abilities, Lissandra's next abilities will be empowered with black frost Q will have an increased range or it will deal extra damage W will increase rooting duration or it will stun champions around her E will have an increased range, it will be faster, and it will slow champions it passes through R on self, it will deal extra damage to champions around her and will increase self healing, or it will heal ally champions R on enemies, it will increase duration and damage to enemy champions

jr deputy meow2 votes

maybe, but without the ult modifier

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