Nasus early game

ADOCHD··5 votes·1,383 views

I feel like early game nasus is actually not that weak at all. Now, when you play ranked games, you can obviously pick a champ that counters nasus, but when just playing normals, any melee champ or ad champ in general is pretty much guaranteed to fail at scaring him off. With tp, flask and pots or cloth 5, the whole risk reward style of nasus seems to disappear. Now, as someone who plays tryndamere and jax a lot, my opinion might a little biased, but i too play nasus occasionally and have noticed that even champs like teemo or riven won't be too succesful at poking you down. As nasus, you just go up for last hits, tank the expected damage with your flask, pots, and passive, and when it seems like their damage is putting you too low, back, buy some armor or mr (depending on the situation), and tp back. At this point, you will be approaching level 6, and have enough lifesteal to get your precious stacks relatively unharmed. Unless if their jungler is camping the hell out of you, you are normally free to farm at this point and approach your terrifying late game. Only a skilled riven or zed will be able to kill you at level 6, assuming you decide to leave the safety of your turret. Even when i play vlad and q the guy every chance i get and hit him with my fully stacked e, a simple negatron cloak suddenly makes my damage neglectable, considering a few stacks on his q and his passive heal him back a solid percentage of health. I honestly feel like the new goal when facing nasus is helping other lanes and praying they carry hard enough to ignore the cane. If other lanes end up going even or just barely ahead, then a smart nasus will win a majority of the time. Not trying to whine about nasus (i enjoy playing him), I just feel his early game weakness is not actually that weak, unless if exploited by a direct counter (with a player who actually knows how to play this counter). Look at jax, he has a weak early game that is later traded in for a very strong late game. Nasus on the other hand (a champ who should have just as weak, if not weaker, of an early game) literally can bully jax even during the first few levels, and goes on to have an even stronger late game. Even garen, a champ that is a huge bully early game, sometimes fails to kick nasus out of lane.

I don't think nasus needs any drastic changes, but i'm just curious what you guys think about his supposedly weak early game.

30 Comments

AtheosisX5 votes

It's not just that his early game is weak (it is in terms of being able to win fights, but he can be relatively tanky early), it's that he offers very little to his team through early game and only a little mid game due to needing to farm hardcore for 15-20 minutes. Other tops can teleport to help other lanes early on, but Nasus really can't, partly because he needs to just farm and partly because he isn't very strong until he gets that farm. With Nasus you are playing for the late game, and that is a big enough penalty all on its own.

ADOCHD1 votes

valid point. A good top laner will be able to assist his team a lot more in the early to mid game. He doesn't need a nerf, I'm just tired of people claiming his early game is weak in terms of laning. And yeah a tp gank from a level 4 nasus usually wont do too much damage XD (exception being a good timing wither)

AtheosisX2 votes

I think perhaps you don't understand what people are saying when they say his early game is weak in terms of laning. They aren't saying that Nasus is a flimsy wet tissue paper champ that dies easily in lane early (at least I hope they aren't saying that, seeing as Nasus gets tanky fairly early on). They are saying that he cannot win trades against most champs early. Nasus is forced to passively farm against virtually everyone. He isn't going to get early kills. He isn't going to snowball. He just has to farm and avoid fights until mid to late game. That's pretty damn weak in my book, especially against all the champs top that are built to get early kills and win trades early.

ADOCHD1 votes

I see your point and i might be misjudging some peoples' opinions on the definition of a weak early game. On the other hand, some people i have talked to genuinely think he needs a buff early game and i'm like -_- yeah let's just make nasus a monster at all levels

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Actually a teleport + wither can win teamfights.

AtheosisX1 votes

Can, but rarely early. Compared to other tops Nasus' early tp's are really weak.

Vectros4 votes

Well, I wouldn't say "incredibly" weak, and to be honest I don't think it'd be fair to give him an incredibly weak early game-to me that would imply he's never going to win lane. I feel that there's enough counters out there to warrant his current strength; his early game certainly isn't strong, and I think you're overestimating his level 6 power-I don't usually start feeling it until I have a Sheen and a decent bit of farm.

He really is a snowball style champion though. Either you do a good job of shutting him down early and he doesn't do anything, or you fail and he becomes a monster, there isn't really an in between.

ADOCHD1 votes

A nerf to his early game would be devastating for sure. Just saw someone complain that his early game needed to be buffed though and bam this thread

AtheosisX1 votes

I wouldn't classify him as a snowball champ. He isn't dependent on getting kills to get going. He's a farming champ. He's dependent on getting farm to get going. You can literally be at zero kills at 20 minutes and be roflstomping the other team at 30 minutes.

Sightless661 votes

Well, the thing is that if you are getting all that farm, you are almost guaranteed to be able to kill your lane opponent, and if you aren't getting the farm, you'll quickly fall behind as the opponent bullies you out. There isn't really any "passive farm vs passive farm" that goes on with Nasus. Either you're getting enough farm and you get to use your insane dueling power to screw the other laner, or you aren't getting enough farm and you get screwed. Additionally, getting a kill or giving up a kill can and usually will completely determine what direction the lane will go. I'd call that pretty snowbally.

Tabs2 votes

I think a good riven, loses to a good nasus nowadays

ADOCHD1 votes

Honestly though. I've played my fair share of games on both sides and i feel that riven's damage is no longer able to stop a nasus with glacial shroud and pots. unless if you are a god at cancelling animations with riven (im gold so pretty far off from that ahaha)

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

I find that when laning as Nasus against Riven, the most annoying part is that her W and Q can be used to interrupt your autoattack, which may lead to you missing minions or attacking her (which her shield blocks).

soliznoel1 votes

as a riven main, and someone whos played both sides, all nasus needs to do (if he's good) is ignore riven, go for the last hits and once you have a frozen heart you won lane. a bad nasus will be afraid of riven just saiyan. edit: a good one knows he can sustain all the damage

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

It really depends on what champion you take against him and how you play the lane.

  • When you play against Nasus, I would highly recommend getting several health potions on your initial buy (Cloth5, LongSword3, Flask3, Doran's Ring, Doran's Shield) since you need to be able to heal off the damage dealt by Nasus's minions when you try to trade with him.

  • In addition, one common mistake I saw my opponents make was that they would push the wave unnecessarily trying to harass the Nasus (Darius would Q me and the wave, Riven would use Q to try and trade, etc). This allows Nasus to wait under tower for the CS to come to him without exposing himself to much danger. You have to get a bit of a lead, manipulate the minion wave to begin pushing to your tower, and then freeze it and zone Nasus from gold and experience. Just make sure you ward when you do this, since Nasus is likely to call for a gank.

  • A lot of people try taking a champion commonly known to counter Nasus (such as Teemo or Darius) without knowing how to play the champion or the matchup. If they don't know how to play the lane or know their champion's strengths and weaknesses, so they make mistakes and Nasus wins.

  • Be very careful about picking a squishy champion or one who depends on autoattacks against Nasus. If you are too squishy or lack a good escape, after a certain point Nasus will just wither you and kill you. Alternatively, he may just wither you for a gank.

If you are looking for a good counter to Nasus, I'd recommend taking a look at DrMundo . Mundo is really good at bullying Nasus when he tries to CS early game without pushing the wave (Q and E-Auto him), deals a lot of mixed damage (so Nasus can't just stack either resistance), and can fight Nasus as any stage of the game. Mundo scales just as well as Nasus while being a stronger early-game bully (I killed the last few Nasus players I've gone against at level 2 without assistance), can splitpush against him at any point, is very difficult for Nasus to kill (unless he gets Last Whisper, but that leaves Nasus pretty squishy), and can help kite Nasus around using cleavers in teamfights. Even if you do push Nasus under his tower, you can harass him with Q or heal any damage dealt by tower shots.

Other good champions to take against Nasus include: Darius Gnar Olaf Lissandra Poppy Singed Trundle Azir.
While some of them might not be the best bullies, most are durable enough to brawl with Nasus or scale well enough that they can match him at most stages of the game, hit their power spikes earlier, or are more useful in teamfights.

AtheosisX1 votes

Azir and Lissandra top? Have fun being gank bait. Also not a single one of those champs is all that great at preventing Nasus from farming and they all get crushed by a farmed Nasus.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Darius, Gnar, and Olaf can't stop Nasus from farming? News to me.

Anyways, I consider most of those champions as counters due to their role in teamfights or the late game. Poppy, Singed, and Mundo all scale as well as Nasus into the late game and he can't stop them from farming either, so they won't be outscaled until very, very late in the game. Trundle is good against Nasus in teamfights because of how much health, armor and MR his ultimate steals, which results in Nasus being pretty squishy and his ability to duel Nasus late game with a proper build even through Wither. Lissandra and Azir can stop Nasus from reaching their team in fights within a combination of CC, mobility, and Azir's wall and they have safe poke in lane.

If you buy wards, ganks aren't as dangerous as you might think, especially not in solo-queue when you pay attention to the map. Not every counter to Nasus needs to be strong early game. You can counter him as well by matching him late game but being more useful, preventing Nasus from reaching his targets, or snowballing your team before he becomes useful.

AtheosisX1 votes

No one scales as well top as Nasus if he free farms. Also Darius, Gnar, and Olaf can only stop your farming if you push lane. With the slow manner in which Nasus kill minions its quite easy to just farm under tower against them. If you ask me ranged harassers are far harder to farm against than those three (well Gnar is a ranged harasser but his boomerang is pretty easy to dodge). The real counter for Nasus though is to crush the other two lanes and end the laning phase early. He then is forced to neglect his team to keep farming or forced to give up farming to help his team. The fact that many games are already decided before Nasus hits his stride is probably his biggest weakness.

Sightless661 votes

I honestly don't care about most ranged laners as Nasus. They can't keep you completely off the minions if you start with regen, and they can't threaten an all-in like a melee champion can. A Darius can completely zone me from farm whenever the wave is even and can even threaten to pull and outtrade me if I try to tower farm (and tower farming is already a shitty thing to have to do on Nasus anyway because it lowers your stacks and can significantly lower your gold, which lowers future stack farming potential). If someone like a Quinn or Ryze is against me, I just don't care. They can poke an early TP out of me but regen and resistances win the day easily, and I can kill either one at 6. Lissandra is an exception because she can win all-ins against Nasus and she's also very hard to gank. She can also screw him in teamfights and she can roam on mid or the jungler very well. She's the only ranged person I really fear.

Teridax682 votes

Nasus 's early game is objectively a lot weaker than that of your average top laner, as he can't really trade or go aggressive or whatnot, but the problem with him is that he doesn't need to. His natural sustain and Q scaling encourage him to completely ignore the enemy top laner and farm as passively as possible, and when he does so it's extremely difficult to dislodge him. From experience, I think a lot of the frustration that comes from laning against Nasus is how passive he can play as you try to harass and poke him, and how he can still survive everything you throw at him almost as if you weren't there. I think he could afford to have a stronger early game if he were encouraged to interact with his lane opponent, rather than hard-farm until the mid/late game.

AtheosisX1 votes

I think he fills a niche design and shouldn't be altered to play like other top laners. There are plenty of aggressive early trading champs top already.

Teridax681 votes

I'm not asking for Nasus to be aggressive, necessarily, rather I'd like him to be rewarded for interacting with his lane opponent (which doesn't have to be through aggression). Right now, he's encouraged to play passively and practically ignore his adversary, which is not the healthiest kind of laning experience for either player. No champion, top laner or otherwise, should be discouraged from interacting with their opponent.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Back in the days when Kha'zix top was still a thing, I would rape every single Nasus I came across. Easier to isolate, and a lot of bushes up top to reset my passive, and I could keep him at bay until level 11,at which point I would join my team in teamfights with my reset and evolved Q...but then that's all history...sad sad sad.

AtheosisX1 votes

Kha'zix and Rengar can still give him trouble.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

But Kha's isolation range nerf...hits so hard....ouch

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

I have had AP toplaners run out of mana trying to force him out of lane :/ So much sustain if you add a flask to his passive. Off meta melee counter Swain works - but even #LCSfavorite Lissandra has troubles to do the job (he can't kill you, but you csn't stop him from farming).

jv21blU7oD1 votes

His early isn't that weak. It's more that he lacks presence in lane so you naturally have to take the backseat with him and often have to back off and let your opponent push the lane when they hit 2 etc. Unless I played something crazy like pre nerf Ryze I have no idea what to do against him to make sure he just didn't free farm.

Edit: Actually Swain completely shits on Nasus. There is literally nothing he can do except call for ganks.

AtheosisX1 votes

He can do what he does against every bad matchup. Farm under his tower.

jv21blU7oD1 votes

A good Swain will make sure to zone you even under your own tower and constantly damage you. You can't even trade ultis with him at lvl 6 unless you run Ignite but who the fuck wants to run Ignite on Nasus and even then I am not really sure if you would win it in usual circumstances.

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