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The Point: Shaco

Hyaxas ··10 votes·3,233 views
some AD shaco calculations OLD vs NEW * r/shacomains

I don't know for you but seriously, since the rework of assassins, Rengar can one shot everyone (yeah, he was already strong and now, his Q is an AOE...), AD carries are useless (except for vayne 'cuz it's vayne and draven because he got a nerf), the good point is Talon is nice to play now but however, as i said in the title, I'll talk about Shaco.

. . . . . . . Yup, this champ --------> Shaco . I know, before, we were like "Oh f*ck, not a shaco..." because this champ was very, very, very aggressive early game. Now, It's totally different. Why? The jungle changed - btw, what are these raptors jeez - , early counter jungle is very difficult 'cuz every jungler (or almost) starts at red or blue instead of gromp or golems. What i want to say is, this tricky guy is useless now. Ok, many of you would say: "No, wtf do you mean? AP Shaco is strong, his boxes are OP and his ult does 100% AP dmg" or "Are you lost man? Shaco full crit (or lethality) can one shot everyone" .

  1. I can answer that his boxes are very usefull in jungle but in team fights, if someone is fear, the other can one shot the box and it's finished. His ult is strong when exploding but the clone takes 50% more damage and deals 75% of Shaco's damage so, the enemy can kill it instantly (plus, his clone is supposed to be adapted for team fights. Yay, 3 boxes appear (25/50/75) (+15% AP) when your double explodes but if one box is killed, the others die too).

  2. His Q, ok, if you enter invisible in a fight, you can one shot this squishy adc but after, you get one shot too...

  3. After that, mhmmm...His E? What is this joke? It's Shaco, Shaco is a joke, his E's damage too - and af. E = Two-Shiv Poison -------> "Shaco throws a shiv that applies Two-Shiv Poison for 3 seconds and deals magic damage equal to 5/35/65/95/125 (+100% BONUS Attack Damage) (+90% Ability Power) [4/5/6/7/8]% of the target's missingHealth.". Is everybody understanding? If someone doesn't catching it, take a look here

Understood? Nice, now, just take an insight. Let's suppose you're against a Elise (level 18) jungle with 1244 health (1969 max health (529,4 (+80 per lvl)) and you have 400 AD, you are level 18 too and you have items, just remove 121 AD (because E takes only BONUS attack damage and at lvl 18, you have 121 base AD), your E will deal 462 dmg ----------> 400 AD - 121 base AD = 279...........279 + 125 (Max dmg of E) = 404............404 + 58 (8% of missing health, in this case, it's_ 8% of 725 _ because_ 1969 - 1244 = 725 _ and _ 8% of 725 = 58)_ = 462 dmg. 462 dmg without considering magic resist of the adversary (his E does magic damage even if it takes your AD too). Let's see something different below.

  • If you have the same amount of AD (400) and we compare this spell to an auto attack (with passive Backstab), you can make up to 580 dmg (Backstab = 145% AD at level 18 - 145% of 400 = 580 - ) and it increases to 800 dmg against monsters (200% AD against monsters - 200% of 400 = 800 - ). So when you see that your E does 462 dmg and your auto does 580 PER SHOT , you wanna see things with a good perspective and you are like "mhmmm, ok, my E does a little bit less because I can target someone who's out of range for my autos" . The fact is, it's totally useless. Oh, i forgot the slow! Sorry, I have omitted to tell you that you can reduce the movement speed of someone by 30% at level 18. It's very cool isn't it?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

_ - Mate, you forgot Nasus no? He can perma slow you by reducing your movement speed by 95%!_ _ - (...) _ _ - Do you... _ _ - Shhhhhhh...................... _

I think it's totally fair for Shaco after all... But seriously, I think he deserves a buff.

Anyway, I just wanted to share with you what I thought about it and I hope that you considered what i said. Don't forget to Up the topic ^^

Have a nice day everyone and thanks for the reading!

~Taenebris

58 Comments

Calabok11 votes

That clown deserves no buff. He should be nerfed.

Hyaxas 1 votes

Sure, and I think we should buff Veigar. Honestly, his passive isn't worth at all. Maybe we should give him 5 stacks per minion slain and 15 per champion killed no? [slayer-jinx-unamused]

SoryInAdvance1 votes

Shaco is one of the most busted junglers in the game? (See win rate in every single elo) You're logic in this post is really dumb, you're saying nearly every jungler starts at red? No they start bot side unless its someone that has to have blue to start in which case they'd only not be bot side on blue side...regardless how does that hinder shaco's early game? he just q's over dragon or baron pit and if the buff is still there, you wait, if not, you go back to farming. You obviously don't have any idea about what you're talking about.

Fisher No Chains2 votes

I guess he's not the only clown considering what his playerbase thinks of him.

doodlebob66610 votes

if pants are dragon is playing a champ it probably doesn't need a buff

Hyaxas 2 votes

If Shaclone is playing Shaco but is also depressive since the rework, it probably needs a buff

[zombie-brand-clap]

No? :)

doodlebob6665 votes

pants are dragon is the largest meta sheep in NA even switching roles to support because he thought soraka was op. If he is currently using tank shaco jungle that forsure means that atleast that iteration of shaco needs a nerf also shaco has consistently been one of the highest winrate junglers with a 9ish percent play rate since the rework with his lowest winrate in the past 5 patches being 52.34 according to op.gg that doesnt mean he is op since shaco does has a very dedicated base who, atleast to me seem to find ways to make the clown work that noone else would figure out, but that in no way is the stats of a champ in need of a buff

Hyaxas 2 votes

Mhmm...if Pants are dragon plays him as a tank. Can i repeat that E is useless? [zombie-brand-facepalm]

doodlebob6664 votes

there is a difference between giving more power to his e with no compensation nerf, and nerfing his ult to buff his e

Hyaxas 4 votes

There is a reason why I put "Adjustment" you know? ^^'

doodlebob6663 votes

oh woops my bad didn't see that

IllIIIlllIIIlllI2 votes

yeah, but his ult is shit :)

Unlucky471 votes

LMAO Shaco's e is useless? It's got decent range and a decent slow. You cannot tell me the slow isn't useful, especially for chasing which shaco is good at. You want to know what a useless slow looks like? I used to main akali. Did you know that her shroud slows? Most people don't because the slow is next to nonexistent.

Omnem Occido2 votes

Prior to Season 7, Shaclone was Diamond, and lower end at that, and he was getting tired of League, favoring Overwatch. Suddenly, after the Assassin update, he's Challenger and happy with the game, despite initially complaining about the rework.

If you are asking for Riot to buff him for his lacking Gold and lower play, you are nuts thinking that could ever happen. "Hey Riot, you know that upper tier of players that make all of your money for you? Could you break a champion that's already really strong at that elo so that lower tier players can be good at him."

IllIIIlllIIIlllI2 votes

Doodlebob, yes, he needs a buff.

Sleepy Sona5 votes

[deleted]

Hyaxas 1 votes

Firstly, when i see someone saying "git gud" , I think of this 12-year-old child who's playing Dark soul and always die. Secondly, I agree with the fact that he has apretty high win rate but there is something important that you neglect. Go see stats and tell me, is it normal to see a good win rate but low assists, low dmg dealt AND many kills? I think it's just the 8% missing health which allows you to KS everyone (when the victim has 27 HP) behind the lines you know.

Sleepy Sona2 votes

[deleted]

Hyaxas 1 votes

ok, if you have Yasuo mid Darius top Shaco jg Draven adc and Malzahar supp . If this team has 23 vs 13 kills at 20 min but the Shaco's score is 1/12/4 , the yasuo's score is 11/1/3 and the other team agreed to surrender, yay, Shaco won. ++ win rate. We don't give a fck of his stats even if he did nothing cuz he did 0 dmg in this game - This is very logical- (...) .

Ahristocats4 votes

i think shaco doesn't need buffs he's fine as he is right now

shaco's win rate is high due to his mains, and as a shaco player (play him sometimes) he doesn't need anything, play him with lethality+tiamat to clear the jungle and you will be fine

Smug Shaco Main4 votes

This guy's argument against people with viable arguments are the champions they main, well I've mained shaco since a little after the Yorick rework came about, and I think 1/2 a year gives me the justification to call myself a Shaco main.

Shaco is busted

Let me rephrase that, AP and Tank Shaco are busted

I legit was able to be AFK for 15~ minutes, as my computer crashed and windows 10 decided "hey, let's update" I was able to get back into the game, build AP, and do incredibly well despite being AFK half the game Here's the game for skeptics

Shaco's AP damage is way too high, and the fact is that if he builds tank you basically have one extra tank in a teamfight. His consistent damage is decent, and this is not even mentioning his insane burst. Let's not forget he can build whatever he wants without a care in the world. so long as he gets enough of it.

Upon looking at your match history, I find that you are still trying to use the assassin build that was originally popular with him pre-rework. Although this is solid in some matchups, particularly when the enemy team is decently immobile, you loose out on far too much damage and late game potential by doing this.

I would suggest to you either AP or Tank Shaco, but if you like AD shaco try the build for Tiamat > Jungle Item (I prefer blue smite, but that's just preference) > Sheen > Ravenous > Tri-Force > IE > then build situationally based on the enemy team. I don't personally care for this build and find AP Shaco a much better alternative, but that's up to you.

To reiterate, Removing some base damage and AP scalings and compensate by slightly raising his AD scaling, or make his E scale based on total AD with a slightly lower or equal scaling would likely make him a bit more balanced.

Don't quote my opinion on this as absolute. This is my opinion, and may not necessarily be fact. I'm not a game designer and am unsure of how that would balance him out without actually seeing it myself. However, Shaco, as he is of patch 7.5, is a bit out of control, and while it's always been "Shaco" to tilt the enemy as early as possible, he shouldn't be able to do it this consistently regardless of how far ahead or behind he is.

Smug Shaco Main2 votes

Also, I want to add that his E is an EXECUTE, it shouldn't do ridiculous damage to a full health enemy. Look at garen's ult, if it could do THAT MUCH DAMAGE TO A FULL HEALTH ENEMY, where's the counterplay?

Shaco is a champ that gets rewarded for planning ahead, preparing boxes and using his clone to distract or occupy an enemy.

Although Shaco can use his clone as a getaway, I've done it before.

SwiftKitten883 votes

Shaco has a 54% winrate... and your asking for a buff... are u out of your fucking mind...

53.2% IN BRONZE 53.8% IN SILVER 54.2% IN GOLD 54.7% IN PLATINUM 54.3% IN DIAMOND+

AND YOUR ASKING FOR BUFFS????

Hyaxas 1 votes

I checked your profile. The only thing you say everywhere is: "it's broken asf xD" . Everything you say is not pertinent. Just write what you want, I don't care. I respect each opinion. I just don't understand this attitude. The worst community and for a good reason... Could you just be more respectful toward others?

Requiemsfire3 votes

Sorry to burst your bubble but in terms of statistics Shaco has one of the highest winrates in the jungle right now, second to only Ivern. Not only has he got an overall increased winrate but his winrate at every single tier has gone right up along with his playrate. If you main this champion and still can't play him well, then simply git gud.

IllIIIlllIIIlllI2 votes

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hyaxas 2 votes

With that name, Riot will listen you Taric

IllIIIlllIIIlllI2 votes

Tru Dat

HibHib2 votes

He only has one of the highest winrates in the game but k, hell, many one trick shacos are in high challenger atm, ex. beautiful Korean

Hyaxas 1 votes

You said it. The problem is, if you play as Shaco, you need to have a good synergy with your partners but it happens rarely except in challenger games.

Fisher No Chains2 votes

Yea, let's buff a champion with a GLOBAL winrate of 54% just because "his E is useless"...

This is one of the best threads I've ever read. Congrats lmao

Hyaxas 1 votes

Ok, do you see Azir AurelionSol Janna Kalista Rammus Shen Skarner Taric Udyr frequently? No and why? Because these champs can be very strong if used conscientiously but it remains that they lack something. Like Azir: you can be a pro who does great moves, your mana pool is nothing. You do your W-E-Q and you have 12% mana. I don't mean I want see him become OP, I just want a reevaluation of his global performances.

Fisher No Chains1 votes

Not a single one of the listed champions have had Shaco's current winrate, except for Skarner, who was broken and got a quick hotfix and Janna, that will remain like this forever, but she's not as infuriating as Shaco is.

I don't see your point honestly. You say "can be very strong if used conscientiously" but a lot of them actually are pretty weak in SoloQ. And this has nothing to do with Shaco, who's been one of the best junglers for like 3 months.

What are you trying to tell me with your comparison? I really don't get it.

Hyaxas 1 votes

Udyr has sensibly the same win rate but his ban rate is 0.04% because he's very mobile but he has 0 long range spell and it makes him vulnerable. If you see a Yi, he has 0 long range attack too but his Q allows him to tp from here to there and it does dmg. I mean, Shaco is strong if you give him an Hydra as an axe (rename him Darius if you want...). This champ is totally melee without his E (and he "hasn't" E). If he's squishy and melee, give him a bow an a bunch of arrows to make him become an adc...

Fisher No Chains1 votes

Udyr has a 46% global winrate, so your argument started with a wrong stat. Also, are you trying to troll all of us? ALL assassins are squishy and 98% of them are melee (excluding LB who isn't even an assassin anymore), so, again, what are you trying to tell me? That Shaco needs adjustments because despite his disgusting winrate he's melee and squishy?

This nonsense is getting annoying honestly.

Hyaxas 1 votes

Diana Q spell --------> Dash ----------> damage -------------> you're dead --------------> Go away full life with her shield because you didn't see it coming and she insta killed you.

Akali Q spell ------------> Dash -----------> damage (hail auto with her passive) ---------------> you're dead ------------------> Go away with W crossing the wall

Yup, annoying

Fisher No Chains1 votes

Every champion has strengths and weaknesses. Both Diana and Akali have no real escape and they are easily manageable with any sort of CC. Shaco instead has a blink + uncounterable invisibility, an annoying ult, a slow, a fear and a lot of stuff that makes you want him gutted to trash.

Stop comparing him to champions with different playstyles trying to demonstrate he needs changes. The only changes he needs are nerfs.

Hyaxas 1 votes

and your arguments are based on what? Comparisons, with different playstyles like you said. I can say Malzahar's ult is annoying. Rengar invisibility making him faster is uncounterable, Trayndamere's slow, Fiddle's fear. what do you want more?

Fisher No Chains1 votes

My arguments are based on stats. Stats are important. Stats ALWAYS tell the truth. Your thread is going to be downvoted soon for a reason.

Anyway, I'm out. It's pointless to keep discussing with someone like you.

Hyaxas 1 votes

It's funny how the win rate is the only argument here. Let's go against faker for a little 1v1 and we'll see your win rate after (...)

Fisher No Chains4 votes

It's funny how you're the only one saying Shaco is useless when EMPIRICAL stats say that he's currently busted.

Requiemsfire7 votes

Now that's just the dumbest argument on the thread.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Oh, an execute spell doesn't do much damage when an enemy is at 2/3 health, what a surprise!

His ult could use a buff, but I think it's fine due to it's misdirection, skillshot blocking, and outplay potential.

Boxes need to be easier to deal when alone, they are utter cancer against AP Shaco if you're not next to someone.

His E actually has a 75% bonus AD scaling, by the wiki, anyway. But remember that he gets a 30% slow on hit when it's off cooldown. That's basically a built in Frozen Mallet.

Anyway, we saw what it was like when Shaco was stronger, I don't think he needs buffs. Adjustments perhaps, but I don't know.

Hyaxas 1 votes

When you main Fiora and Riven, I have nothing to add.... oh, and the wiki says 75% total AD. And the 2/3 was an example, you can try it with a 5000 health Mundo if you want, it's the same thing ^^

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

When you main Fiora and Riven, I have nothing to add.... oh, and the wiki says 75% total AD. And the 2/3 was an example, you can try it with a 5000 health Mundo if you want, it's the same thing ^^

No, you don't have anything to add, because you shouldn't be talking about those in the first place.

No, it wouldn't be the same thing, not at all. The more health they're missing, the more damage it does. On a 2/3 health mundo, it'd do ~120 bonus damage. On a 30% health Elise (600 health, 1300 missing) It'd do 108 + ~130 + ~260 = a decent 500 damage.

Dracocrash1 votes

you're being sarcastic right?

Rengär L9 1 votes

Shaco op af abuse him while you can :D [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

King of Mongoose1 votes

season 6 bronze 2 you have no voice in balance stop talking shaco needs to be deleted

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