Since Skarner is getting Hotfixed soon. What do you plan on doing to him?

QwikSand·Aug 24, 2015·5 votes·37,945 views

I need to know Riot

82 Comments

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 201512 votes

Likely changes:

Base AD to 57 (from 61)
Base MS to 335 (from 345)
W % to 10-14 (from 12-16)
E damage to 40-140 and 25-65 (from 40-180 and 25-125)

That's for the hotfix we're aiming to put out early this week. Additional changes will follow if needed (buffs or nerfs, though I'd be very surprised if this overnerfed him) in the next regular patch (5.17).

aperson1Aug 24, 20154 votes

Are any other champs gonna get changed in the hotfix? Statikk mentioned the Darius changes, what about Morde and Garen?

ErijianAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Are any other champs gonna get changed in the hotfix? Statikk mentioned the Darius changes, what about Morde and Garen?

Garen's fine; he lost a lot in his kit to gain the advantages he currently has and any more changes will result in the rework being an overall nerf. He lost:

Some Silence duration on Q Some MS Buff duration on Q Active Tenacity on Courage Stronger Courage Passive late-game Early game damage

To gain:

Stronger Courage Passive mid-game Late-game damage 1% Max HP True Damage on-Villain hits True damage Ults to the Villain

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 20155 votes

We're reducing Garen's base MS by 5 (to 340), and his Q MS bonus by 5% (to 30%).

Darius I believe we're increasing Q damage (40-160, instead of 20-100) and possibly buffing Q heal % (not certain where conversation on that got to on Friday).

No hotfix changes currently planned for Morde, still quite a bit of chaos as people get used to playing as and against his more substantial changes, so harder to get a useful read on what should or shouldn't be changed.

CronoveyAug 24, 20152 votes

A little sad to see the Garen nerfs considering you already hit his Q twice in the "buffs" and the MS nerf will be a nerf to his entire kit in general, especially trying to stick to someone with your Judgement.

He took a hefty round of nerfs in the update in exchange for some decent late game buffs, and that left him in a pretty good spot where you can actually win a game now instead of becoming a worthless wall of defense who can't hurt anyone past 30 minutes.

SpecterVonBarenAug 24, 20153 votes

Not sure why.... Every single Darius I've played with or against for this entire patch has dominated their lane except for one outlier.

SalidfingersAug 24, 20151 votes

Ive notice this too. Win lane, Cant Win Game

gg git diffAug 24, 20151 votes

Sounds like old Darius.

SalidfingersAug 25, 20152 votes

So buffing his Q wont fix the problem since he is already winning lane most games.

gg git diffAug 26, 20151 votes

Exactly. His rework improved his laning phase, where he was already strong. He’s better in teamfights too, but he needs to get bloodrage up for that.

Chromatic EagleAug 24, 20151 votes

What about Nasus? Didn't he get changed too? How's he doing?

Jeddy017Aug 24, 20152 votes

All they did with him was give 50 extra range on his Q,which doesn't stack with his ult.I doubt it would make him OP or UP.

Goth Girl LoverAug 24, 20154 votes

If you want to do something to morde you can fix the fact that spellvamp applies on his q like it's an aoe spell, thus only getting 33% effectiveness out of it

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 20152 votes

Quick update: No Garen changes in the hotfix. He's almost certainly too strong, and we'll probably go through with the nerfs in 5.17, he's not so out of line we need to act before the next regular patch though. Taking the time to assess how he's doing a bit more as a result.

KingsgraveAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Quick update: No Garen changes in the hotfix. He's almost certainly too strong, and we'll probably go through with the nerfs in 5.17, he's not so out of line we need to act before the next regular patch though. Taking the time to assess how he's doing a bit more as a result.

According to http://champion.gg/champion/Garen/Top his first 25 minutes is ridiculous

Red RyuAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Quick update: No Garen changes in the hotfix. He's almost certainly too strong, and we'll probably go through with the nerfs in 5.17, he's not so out of line we need to act before the next regular patch though. Taking the time to assess how he's doing a bit more as a result.

Uhh is he? He seems to have a lot of counters to him trying to get in and do his thing unless you mean his just raw damage is too high.

brownthunder88Aug 25, 20153 votes

Do you truly believe that nerfs or buffs will really put Garen in better place. Right now, Garen feels like how Soraka used to be before the rework. Remember, before the Starfall/Heal rework, soraka was a strong, but boring mana and HP battery. She was strong (used in LCS in the midlane), but uninteresting. The rework made her more fun, and put her in a good place (she was even used in LCS to great success too).

The easiest place to look at would be Garen's Passive Perseverance. It needs a change in function and design. Isn't anyone tired of Garen's passive being soo similar in design and function to item 3083 .

Garen needs more synergy between his abilities (Q,W,E, R) and his passive. His abilities feel like they are designed to go into a fight, where as his passive rewards me for staying out of a fight. The passive is called “Perseverance”, so this should mean that he will stay alive longer than anyone else, WHILE IN THE MIDDLE of the battle. This passive alone should be enough encompass what Garen is at his core, the sturdiest soldier on all of Demacia. Garen should have his passive activate when he attacks. None of his other abilities need to change.

Please, at least take a look at this post. Some people have responded with really good feedback. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6u7AM4Ik-garen-needs-a-passive-rework

TazimussAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Quick update: No Garen changes in the hotfix. He's almost certainly too strong, and we'll probably go through with the nerfs in 5.17, he's not so out of line we need to act before the next regular patch though. Taking the time to assess how he's doing a bit more as a result.

This, right here, is what you at Riot are doing wrong. You know this guy is too strong. You are 'almost certainly' saying it. He's op. What are you doing about it? Not a thing. At least not for now. This is just one instance. I mean, look at Skarner. I'll give you props for actually 'hotfixing' the issue, like two weeks late, but he shouldn't have been shipped out like that. He's broken. Who in the office played that guy and went,''Nah Skarner is in a good spot''. It's ridiculous man. This happens every patch. Every. Time. There are better, more fun moba's now where that doesn't happen. You are no longer the only good one. There are options, and people are starting to use them. You've GOTTA start being smarter, listening to the community more, and stop releasing broken champs, over complicated champs, and doing 'weird and crazy' things for the sake of 'being in a good spot'. That's my two cents man.
Not trying to be mean, its just that this has been happening for a year now and you keep going in the wrong direction. You don't have to do everything the community says, but when you have a hive mind telling you what the problem is, its easy to see what you're doing right and wrong - but Riot doesn't seem to listen to that. Anyway. GG.

I am RazgrizAug 26, 20151 votes

Funny you say that because every time he faces a Darius in lane Darius walks all over him. I don't know if you intended Darius to be his counter but nerfing Garen and buffing Darius is going to be hilarious.

ValentenAug 24, 201514 votes

WOAH WOAH WOAH Skarner got to keep his 345 ms after becoming a juggernaut but FREAKING MORDE DIDNT? Morde doesnt have a ms buff no matter what his is completely situational :/

darkdillAug 24, 20153 votes

It was a thematic thing, I think. Does Morde look like he's supposed to be fast?

EnosetcAug 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It was a thematic thing, I think. Does Morde look like he's supposed to be fast?

tbf, the birdman with the cane moves faster

Arbiter of TasteAug 24, 20151 votes

Have you not danced as Swain? He is clearly faking the limp. It is all part of his tactical mind games. That is one spry little old dude.

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 20154 votes

Yeah, we definitely misread that one, in retrospect we should have gone with the lowered MS on Skarner in 5.16 launch.

ValentenAug 24, 20156 votes

I do have a silly question.... Would Morde be able to get like 335 or 330 ms instead of the 325 he currently has? I mean he feels REALLY slow and its somewhat difficult to do Morde things being so slow.

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 20158 votes

We're holding off on committing to any Morde changes until players have adapted more to Morde's new state and we've got a better handle on how he's doing. If he needs power, and is struggling because he can't get onto appropriate targets often enough, MS is probably what we'll look at, particularly given it also offers a feel improvement. Too early to make any promises there though.

ValentenAug 24, 20153 votes

Fair enough! I would like to advise something to make it a little easier to land mordes 3rd Q more consistently. Give him an AS steroid when Q is active. Doesn't have to be a big one but just enough to make his Q more consistent. Just an idea for if he does need some buffs!

barennerAug 24, 20151 votes

while your looking at thinks would it be possible to look at Darius' crippling strike i have notesed some times it dose not animate when activated and dose not reacquire targets when in use. also this attack speed per level cut may be a little to severe makes it really hard to know if im have still on target or waiting for the next auto or what ever the case my be Darius (thanks) also while this is on my mind personal the audio ques for the dunk master skin i feel are to early one Q makes it even harder to hit them normal when you hear BACK OFF or GET FOOLED like a second before the windup and glowing swing range indicator

Lady HammerlockAug 25, 20151 votes

dont buff mord he is literally katarina low elo crusher higher elo he just gets worse i mean plus 5 ms would be nice tho

JolanAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Likely changes:

Base AD to 57 (from 61)

Base MS to 335 (from 345)

W % to 10-14 (from 12-16)

E damage to 40-140 and 25-65 (from 40-180 and 25-125)

That's for the hotfix we're aiming to put out early this week. Additional changes will follow if needed (buffs or nerfs, though I'd be very surprised if this overnerfed him) in the next regular patch (5.17).

I'm still surprised you decided to keep Skarner's base MS unnerfed from PBE. So I can definitely see that getting slashed, as well as the insane burst from E, but I don't see why Skarner has to lose that amazing shield value on W or his base AD. Since he won't clear with E anymore, that means he has to rank up Q and autoattack a lot, meaning the shield value (at least) should probably not change. Thoughts?

RiotMeddlerAug 24, 20157 votes

Our current thinking is that Skarner's incredibly overpowered. I suspect he'll still be too strong after these changes and we'll have to hit him in 5.17 as well, will assess that once the hotfix is out, see if that's true and if so where the problem is.

MAGA MAN X 2020Aug 24, 20153 votes

Just please don't gut him...

Squ4tchAug 24, 20151 votes

I hope i'm not too late to the party, but i had some thoughts/questions about proposed changes

So i played Skarner a lot on the PBE through all the iterations and i was wondering, might a healthy nurf be reverting the passive added to his E? i found his ult to be extremely satisfying when used in/around your zone but when now that he can gain that speed outside his zones it added a large amount of power but dulled experience of his ult. It felt less like a good vs bad Skarner use case and more of a binary decision on when to ult. And i find the AS/move speed given when you stun people feels a little cluttered and a very hard skill to maximizes and play around, it feels like a bonus that doesn't offer much meaningful decision making or interesting play, it just grayed the lines on when he is and isn't powerful. I felt like skarner should hit hard and be terrifying in his zone but be more of a small-ish CC low dmg meat wall when not in his zone, i think the graying of that distinction may have hurt him and added to much power.

sorry if that's come across as harsh in any way, i actually LOVE the new skarner i just really really hope the focus for his strength can be in his zones and i'm just worried that the proposed nerfs are hitting him in every situation and even more so in his zones as the base AD hurts more when you have high attack speed.

So in essence if you can find a way to nurf him when he is outside his zones but keep him strong in his zones (similar to the initial iteration) i would very much love that. His zones give him his unique play style and offer very interesting play and counterplay, so thank you guys for the awesome changes and keep up the good work :)

ArtemisWinterAug 24, 20151 votes

I appreciate a hotfix nerf for skarner, but I think the biggest issue is how much skarner gets for being in his crystal area. Which are placed at all major and minor jungle objectives. To have a high win rate which he has is much more then just a minor stat issue, he has way to much control over objectives, I think this should be the focus of the balancing.

ProfirixAug 24, 20152 votes

I do not think we should rush to nerf these zones of Skarners. He should be 'overpowered' inside these zones. That is why you have to play around the 15s downtime or pull the fight out of the zones. Dragon and baron fights are bound to be one of the few times when he can benefit from these zones in teamfights but if your team plays smart, you can cap the zone just before engaging and make him effectively have no passive. Skarner's rework was all about zone control. If you take advantage of this, you can punish him almost every time. This is REAL counterplay and has REAL risk/reward.

Sightless66Aug 24, 20153 votes

Has there been any consideration of nerfs to the shrines? I ask because I really don't want Skarner to end up in a state where he feels really bad outside of the crystals and really strong only when inside of them, but that is kind of what happened to him when he was first released on the PBE with the movement speed nerfs. That still has a lot of potential to be really, really frustrating to play as, and I'm wondering if you guys have any way to control that problem with any additional nerfs you will likely have to make.

I just want to put it out there that even now, the zones aren't really adding much to the fun factor of Skarner. I'm enjoying him a lot because he's a strong fighter outside of them, the E feels like a real threat and because the ultimate finally got buffed after all these years. Losing a lot of that.... isn't really ideal.

JordianAug 24, 20152 votes

Do you guys have a fix for the Zac bug yet? His E does not match the range indicator and it is extremely frustrating. He doesn't go as far as it says he does at longer ranges. I would love if you could hotfix that in as well <3

SkarnerOnlyAug 24, 20156 votes

Hi im SkarnerOnly and i am a Skarner "one trick pony" in Euw i was the best Skarner player in the world since the last 3 seasons with round a bout 1600 ranked games on him. http://www.lolskill.net/top/highest-lolskillscore?filterChampion=72&filterRealm

first of all i want to say that he is overbuffed for sure. but to nerf the scaling on W,E and MS wont balance him. it will make him just less fun to play cause he feels slower adn he will be still overpowered if u really want to balacance him let the player decide betwen dmg or speed/tankyness with a simple change to his W instead of a W that only need 1 point to be relevant all game u should force the player to lvl W if they want tankyness and speed

Just change the W from 12-16% to (60+4%/80+6%/100+8%/120+10%/140+12%) it has almost the same scaling at max rank as the old 12-16% but it prevent the rank 1 W power that allows to just stack hp

for example:

most player lvl w at last so they get a rank 2 W at lvl 14.

Live Shield: LVL 13 base hp : 1681 hp -> 202 hp shield with a lvl 1 W +~1500 bonus hp -> 180 hp shield = 382 hp shield with with a lvl 1 skill

My shield: LVL 13 base hp : 1681 hp -> 127,24 hp shield with a lvl 1 W +~1500 bonus hp -> 60 hp shield = 189,27 Hp shield with a lvl 1 skill

the shield scales alot better with ranks and less with lvl/items (rank 5 W is nearly same ratios with normal builds).

it will solve alot of the problem that skarners current kit causes:

it forces player to acccually max W 2nd or even first if they want to be the big tanky guy.
delay the q or e max (less slow/higher cd)
if they dont max W early he is alot squishyer and loses his movement speed buff alot easyer (maybe even to support attacks)
his jungle clear without maxing W let him accually take dmg cause the %HP-scaling on rank 1 W is low

i post a sheet with the scaling from the new W

**tl;dr : ** Take power away from his W -> less pure hp scaling more rank scaling -> Weaken his early -> Less snowballing -> lower winrate

MAGA MAN X 2020Aug 24, 20151 votes

That seems reasonable. His mechanics will still keep him strong, and he'll still be viable. All in all, I just wish the nerfs went out sooner because he's super fun but always gets banned and probably will keep getting banned for months because most people don't read patch notes :(

Markus VakarianAug 24, 20151 votes

This is not fix...this is huge nerf

The Blue RajahAug 24, 20151 votes

Would it be possible to change his mana return effect from his passive? Because currently he effectively does not care at all about his mana since it's so easy to get it back.

My suggestion would be to change the passive so that instead of regening 3% max mana every second (whut), making it so his abilities cost no mana while his passive is up. This gives a similar feeling of "with my passive up, I can use my abilities for sure" but makes it so that if he actually does run out of mana, it's a bigger issue than "swing by the nearest crystal."

ShahamutAug 25, 20151 votes

I am not certain that these will change his win rate... If they did, it would only mean he dropped off radar again. My thoughts:

Currently, Skarner's passive makes him great at clearing jungle and fighting near baron and dragon. Outside of the jungle, what has made him so potent is that he now has his slow, his ult, and an on demand stun.

You can leave his utility, but nerfing his base speed and AD might do nothing more than hurt his jungle speeds, which while good, are not the best atm. If you want to push him to primary objective controller, but you want to lower his speed and damage output, wouldn't it be better to just gut his upfront damage in favor of sustain? Here is a change list I was suggesting. Would really like your thoughts on it.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mbBQxMw8-riot-suggestion-for-skarner

You could also remove the cooldown mechanic on the E procs and just lower its cooldown to 10 at max rank. If you want 6 second utility you should have to build for it. I understand a lot of people wouldn't like it because of how much is on it, but its already going to be up once per gank attempt.

xXBeaverFeverXxAug 27, 20151 votes

I mained Skarner before 5.16 and thought he was a good champ. Then the patch comes along and halfway destroys all his damage output unless you are in one of 6 specific locations on the map. Then everyone wants to call him broken and you take away half of his damage. This is ridiculous. After this hotfix, I wont jungle Skarner anymore because he will be almost worthless. All he will be able to do is stand in the middle of a teamfight and act like he is contributing by using one ult. After that, his entire damage output is gone and its a 4v5 while your team has to try and make up the lost damage. I wont be playing Skarner again... Hes just gonna be a champ like Eve and nobody will pick him.

SpecterVonBarenAug 24, 20154 votes

Don't worry, they'll nerf him over the course of two or three patches until he no longer easily dominates and then people will stop playing him because he provides nothing that someone else can't do better and without needing to be in one of six spots on the map to do.

Then he'll be left to rot, forgotten by the players and Riot while the people that liked Skarner before he was OP will just have to grit their teeth and try to make him work as best they can.

Then Riot will rework him again in about a year.

ErijianAug 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Quick update: No Garen changes in the hotfix. He's almost certainly too strong, and we'll probably go through with the nerfs in 5.17, he's not so out of line we need to act before the next regular patch though. Taking the time to assess how he's doing a bit more as a result.

I think players just need some time to adjust to the new Garen. The way he's played before and after hasn't really changed; but the times where he's actually deadly to fight against have. A lot of players I've seen are still trying to facetank Garen's damage late-game like you could before so it's pretty apparent that they're not used to the changes that have happened yet. His winrate has been going down and up constantly with the lower winrates being in the 52% range and the higher ones being 55%. (In Plat+ games)

I do think Deadman's Plate in general is a bit too strong though.

God King MordeAug 25, 20151 votes

PLEASE dont nerf garen. as a pre rework garen main his damage only slightly went up but his tankiness went down by alot and forces you to build more tank items. people say he got stronger only because in the past they built full tank and said "garen was useless" the few good garens out there know that pre rework garen and old garen are pretty close in strength but now people are building damage.

mcjaggerAug 24, 20152 votes

Morde's dragon needs changes. The range he can have it at, the hp, the auto lock on, the aoe attack, it's all too much benefit for already getting an objective. Really crazy.

Hella KaiserAug 24, 20152 votes

the new morde is a mess! i don't know wtf to build! ad,ap,tank,ms,items that slows... wtf riot! at least before he could tank as a riven can do but he didn't have cc or mobility... now to win as morde you need luck or a stupid enemy so you can land the 3° q...

SkipTheWaveAug 24, 20151 votes

Dude, the new Morde is not a mess, he is a juggernaut >_> You build stuff that lets him land that obscene third Q

ShuveliqAug 25, 20151 votes

Get rylai 1st item then go from their I normally go Rylai into Titanic into HP + Armor/MR based on the match up. Rylai helps him stick to whoever he is trying to murder, Titanic gives more power to his Auto attacks and gives more wave clear, then just tanky items that give health + Armor/MR as the rylai and titanic have given me enough power to smash the adcs into the ground while also being hard to kill [even more so if you have a good leona to play with you].