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I WON'T LEASH JUNGLE

MyJungleNoob··3 votes·2,798 views

I play Tryndamere most of the time and i need rage as soon as I can to win my lane 80 percent of the time and then I see my jungler starting top side blue and leashing this jungler not only puts me at massive disadvantage at the earlier stages of the game because now my opponent will not let me get rage for free I also have lost the chance of getting a level 2 kill as tryndamere. Occasionally I pick Maokai top because jungler is kindread or graves etc and support is Soraka or something if jungler still starts top side for leash I will not mind as i don't want to fight enemy urgot and rather have the wave push to me as i farm under tower. However when I pick a tank for team and jungler does not gank me in an already unfavourable matchup as i picked a tank into urgot in 12 minutes into the game I will get massively tilted and will just go duo mid or I will not give a shait about jungle and wont leash him because there is no guarantee that this jungler will ever gank me and will never pick a tank or ap top laner as my chances of winning lane when pick something like that lowers drastically. I will legit just focus on my own play and not give a shait about these crying junglers that come top for leash and then never gank top or get a leash and still don't come top to gank there are times when junglers do gank top after getting a leash but the chances of that are low.

NOTE THAT This is low elo so jungle path is not warded plus the lane is somewhat even and counter ganks almost never happen.

34 Comments

Woodakoodashooda5 votes

It's so weird that most jungle want top lane to leash for them at all.

It doesn't seem to matter if I am blue team or red team. More than half of the jungle I get want me to leash them.

Why? Why do the resource-less jungle want me to leash their blue? Why do the mana-dependent jungle wish for me to leash their red? Why is it that the Kayn players and Amumu players simply don't start by soloing raptors for an easy level 2 and a prolonged buff duration after?

It boggles the mind of a top lane, doesn't it?

SEKAI3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Is So Chill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEoasrE3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-26T16:20:57.777+0000)

It's so weird that most jungle want top lane to leash for them at all.

It doesn't seem to matter if I am blue team or red team. More than half of the jungle I get want me to leash them.

Why? Why do the resource-less jungle want me to leash their blue? Why do the mana-dependent jungle wish for me to leash their red? Why is it that the Kayn players and Amumu players simply don't start by soloing raptors for an easy level 2 and a prolonged buff duration after?

It boggles the mind of a top lane, doesn't it?

No?

Jungles usually ask the closest side laners to leash for them. If they're starting at a camp close to top, ask top laner; if they're starting at a close close to bot, ask bot laners.

Jungle does not ask mid because mid is the shortest lane where minions meet the earliest. As such them coming to leash would result in an early CS disadvantage.

However, that's not the case with the side lanes, where given they're longer it means they have time to leash and still make it back to the lane to get the CS without loss just fine as long as they know what they're doing.

Top lane is also the longest lane (out of top, mid, and bot) in the game. So top lane should have plenty enough time to make for a leash.

MyJungleNoob1 votes

Top lane can leash but at the sacrifice of losing lane advantage. Whereas if the jungler were to start bot not only they don't lose as much of An advantage, Plus bot can get to lane faster then top because 2 people are leashing you instead of 1.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Top lane can leash but at the sacrifice of losing lane advantage. Whereas if the jungler were to start bot not only they don't lose as much of An advantage, Plus bot can get to lane faster then top because 2 people are leashing you instead of 1.

You can usually finish leashing and make it back to lane just after the minions even met each other. As I've said, top lane has the longest lane, so the difference between top's 1 man leash and bot's 2 men leash isn't all that different.

It really is not some grand sacrifice you're making out here, unless you including assert your dominance by dueling with the opponent before there's even minions. Which if you do, please don't.

Leashing is great because it ensures the jungle wouldn't finish clearing with so little HP they're not fit for gank or scuttle contest; especially if their jungle choice isn't super meta that could easily run into this problem if they try to solo their way out of their first clear. Leashing costs you a little yes, but it is a good investment for future ganks and potential snowball. Always remember that.

MyJungleNoob2 votes

Minions spawns at 1:00 and buff spawns at 1:30. Assuming you hit the buff with 3 autos and 1 ability it is still not possible to reach lane before minions hit each other so now you are just trying to manipulate me with lies and it makes a huge difference 2 people leashing you vs 1 as the camp is done way faster and jungler gets to stay healthier because of it. I clearly can see you don't play top because leashing jungle as top laner makes a big difference for the first 3 levels at least. Leashing can be great (only for the jungler) but at cost of losing a lane advantage in the hopes of getting ganks to even out the lane. How do I know this jungler will gank me for all I know he might power farm for 12 minutes and never gank till then or just go camp bot or he might be very bad at jungling. So in a solo que environment I will do everything I can to carry alone and not rely on others. Also leashing and never getting a gank is going to tilt me.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Minions spawns at 1:00 and buff spawns at 1:30. Assuming you hit the buff with 3 autos and 1 ability it is still not possible to reach lane before minions hit each other so now you are just trying to manipulate me with lies and it makes a huge difference 2 people leashing you vs 1 as the camp is done way faster and jungler gets to stay healthier because of it. I clearly can see you don't play top because leashing jungle as top laner makes a big difference for the first 3 levels at least. Leashing can be great (only for the jungler) but at cost of losing a lane advantage in the hopes of getting ganks to even out the lane. How do I know this jungler will gank me for all I know he might power farm for 12 minutes and never gank till then or just go camp bot or he might be very bad at jungling. So in a solo que environment I will do everything I can to carry alone and not rely on others. Also leashing and never getting a gank is going to tilt me.

I am questioning what your definition of leashing even is.

You don't leash by killing the buff together with the jungler, you just damage it until it's half health and you leave. It's just something to smooth out the first clear experience of the jungler, where now instead of spending more time and costing more HP, they can clear the first buff a lot faster and with a lot less HP commitment, so they can actually gank early or contest scuttle properly. The process takes peanuts time and at most you lost 1 or 2 minions in lane max, and let's be real, 1 or 2 minions is absolutely nothing, especially since the laner opponent might not even be there if they were also leashing if the opponent starts at the opposite buff to yours.

It's only if you're doing a "hard leash", ie leashing until the buff is dead or very close to dead, that you leave for the lane a lot later. Then you might be talking about more CS loss. But you don't have to, and not every leash is meant to be a hard leash. Hard leash is usually only used either because your jungle is looking to invade the opponent jungle right away after buff so they want to make sure they have as much HP as possible, or if their jungle pick has a very unfavourable first clear that they actually need the hard leash to avoid being executed by jungle minions somewhere in their first clear.

..........

So in a solo que environment I will do everything I can to carry alone and not rely on others.

And that's why so many people are hard stuck.

Unless you're playing champs so utterly and completely broken like Yasuo who after some point reaching a critical mass he can quite literally, 1v5 in the most obvious sense of that word. Otherwise, you ain't carrying alone.

There is only so much a single player can do in an environment of 5v5. That is the reality.

And to properly climb, 2 ingredients are essential:

  1. Either you carry by not just getting fed yourself, you make everyone on your team fed too (or try to).
  2. If you're being carried, make yourself very carriable by being very cooperative and follow whoever that's carrying now so you are making their job just a little easier, since they wouldn't have to spend energy trying to convince someone with a thumb up their ass to come in and do something.
MyJungleNoob1 votes

I gave a very good reason for the jungler to start bot side and you have completely ignored that. I am not going to continue this pointless discussion with you have a good day jungle main.

LordGeovanni1 votes

1:15

MyJungleNoob1 votes

The top and bot lane is the same size. 2 people leashing you will get the camp done way faster instead of 1 so it really is a big difference plus jungler will stay healthier. You seem to not understand how big of a difference it makes when you leash your jungler and not get a gank. Opponent will be reaching level 2 first and they will get a chance to kill you in top lane a kill can lead to snowball very quickly unless your jungler is there to help. How do you know the jungler will not say never gank a losing lane and then never help your lane? If jungler wants a leash I'm glad to do that only if they do a level 2 gank or they can go bot side or not get a leash at all. Don't rely on others in solo que and focus on your own play even if that includes puting someone else in your team behind I have learned that the hard way.

The thigh guy4 votes

If you chose not to leash for your jungler, do not expect any ganks to your lane. It’s that simple.

JuiceBoxP3 votes

Or at all, for the next 5 minutes.

preternatural3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEoasrE3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-26T18:13:32.112+0000)

If you chose not to leash for your jungler, do not expect any ganks to your lane. It’s that simple.

they never happen even if i do leash so no diff to me. all these garbage junglers who try to get me to tank a hit of their camp, HA, i walk away the instant they do that, you can solo that buff.

LordGeovanni1 votes

I find as a top laner its best to tank the first hit. then heal up with item 1055 or item 1054. By time you reach lane you only 15 hp down when you reach lane you can just regen that back while last hitting or hitting the enemy minions.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

I find as a top laner its best to tank the first hit. then heal up with item 1055 or item 1054. By time you reach lane you only 15 hp down when you reach lane you can just regen that back while last hitting or hitting the enemy minions.

it's the principle of the thing. it's like when jungler asks me to ward their buff, not to any service of my own. am i to be repaid later? never happens so not gonna do that again.

LordGeovanni1 votes

It is a service to yourself you dont get early game cheeses from verticle jungling and if the player isnt brain dead they could go kill the stealing jungler and take the kill and buff

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

It is a service to yourself you dont get early game cheses from verticle jungling and if the player isnt brain dead they could go kill the stealing jungler and take the kill and buff

sure i once committed a ward to junglers red buff cause he was scared of getting invaded. sure whartever i'll hlep the team and then what should jungler do after i secure vision for his buff and he's secured the buff itself at lvl 3? come to my lane and service it because i now can't push without vision. nope, jungler not gonna do that enemy jungler will come to my lane actually, in the time that my jungler could have come. then i die for committing resources to this chump. yeah i'm tilted again, just gonna play some tft

LordGeovanni1 votes

I feel like that's what flash is for esecially level 3 early game where there any many long duration cc and if there is long duration cc it usually has no damage so you can just flash after it. I dont think 'tilted' is a valid excuse if you know that you get tilted work on suring up your mental consitution or stop playing all together.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like that's what flash is for esecially level 3 early game where there any many long duration cc and if there is long duration cc it usually has no damage so you can just flash after it. I dont think 'tilted' is a valid excuse if you know that you get tilted work on suring up your mental consitution or stop playing all together.

not only must i commit a ward to this useless jungler, i must commit my flash too. never. it's a madness what you've forwarded.

LordGeovanni1 votes

but you completely ignore the part where i say you get the kill. And the buff if you smart about it I usually come around the back and engage the enemy jungler when the buff is at 800-500 hp when they are too deep to leave without getting anything so they try to kite around you and the buff and smite it i kill the enemy jungler and get the buff its low enough and walk into lane level 2 with blue buff so infinite spells for the first 5 minutes of the game I say blue because i dont take red buff junglers need that to be any kind of competent 1 for hp5 2 for ganks and 3 to jungle faster. You dont have to commit your flash you only have to if you are bad at the game like me and dont watch the corners of your screen which i dont most of the time but those times i only occationally get ganked the rare times i look i get ganked some of them. i wouldnt say that i 'know' jungle clear speeds but ive been playing long enough to have a pretty good idea and thus avoid the easy level 3-5 gank also ever sense the distortion enchantment had been removed ive been using more ghost to a degree over flash this allows me to run push the wave under tower and run past the tower and run out/ use the blast cone to get out. I rarely take tp but if i have it i can tp out from behind the tower when the enemy top wastes their hard cc if they have one (you'd tp back to lane more than likey anyway its the same maneuver used to save you put on cooldown earlier so it comes back earlier) unless its versus a kayn who can walk through walls. id not use both at the same time and ghost is almost half the cd of flash and half the cd of tp i use it in place of tp with flash sometimes. all though it doesnt give you innate strength early game like ignite is gives you versitility to completely nope out of an early all in versus an ignite opponent or force the all in versus a tp opponent and your ghost will come back before their flash so you can force it again 2 levels later to secure your lead. my favorite is forgoing the considered required flash and going ghost ignite or ghost barrier bot lane/ mid lane. Frankly i find warding the buff not good i just defend the jungle in the river like they do in the bot lane but i do it in the top lane If they gonna invade im there. I usually walk into the enemy jungle to confirm they arent starting my side walk back to defend then walk to my lane slightly behind my minions by walking past the buff without warding it Im i gonna use that ward to ward by brush hell no. Im gonna shove as soon as i get to lane get to level 2 or level 1 80% walk to the enemy red ward it if the enemy is there kill the enemy or steal the buff (judgement call usually depending on which summs i took ghost flash or ghost ignite) then kill the enemy. Most people play the game as if it needs no strategy and it doesnt anymore but that doesnt mean that you have to put strategy on the side.

Shädäm1 votes

Oh, yeah whenever I hear someone saying "jg 0 gank" I think of those teammates that are under the enemy turret constantly, pushing like there is no tomorrow, and then getting collapsed on by a roam or gank. Also those people that are constantly pinging, but whenever I show up near their lane, the enemy laner is already backing, but my teammates never trouble to buy at least a control ward.

If you main jungle you know this.

And those laners who have any complaints about giving a leash dont know the struggle of playing jungle since the XP nerfs. Most of the junglers have a hard early clear, and I'm not even surprised when I see someone getting executed at lvl 2-3 by Krugs. I even think that if your jungler starts topside, even the midlaner should help with one spell, and if you are a tank support, you shoudlnt even hesitate to tank 2 or 3 hits.

MyJungleNoob1 votes

Well I guess lane will be lost if getting camped by enemy jungler and shyvana jungle decided to start top blue side but never got leash. The most sensible think for this jungler to do is start bot side. If you plan to not gank me and I get camped by enemy jungler fine don't however expect you to take all dragons and get other lanes ahead.

Baby Ghoul4 votes

Bad post.

JuiceBoxP3 votes

Not leashing your jungler is soooooooooooooooooo bad.

AlienPrimate2 votes

Starting top side as a jungler who needs a leash is worse. If you need a leash, start bottom side. I always start blue when playing Taric jungle and never ping or ask for a leash when I'm on blue team. I leave it up to my top laner whether or not they want to help me. It isn't a big deal if they don't. Smite exists and I can easily solo the buff without losing much health.

JuiceBoxP3 votes

{quoted}

I always start blue when playing Taric jungle

Stopped reading here.

AlienPrimate1 votes

Perhaps you will take 5 seconds to look at this. 58% win rate as support with 26 games and 83% win rate as jungler with 23 games btw.

https://i.imgur.com/5OXs4zB.jpg[]

######Guess I should start playing champions in their intended role and have a 40% win rate on Thresh support over 35 games like you.

Gabresol2 votes

But... You get range from leashing... And if you do the sensible thing to start e, you can make it to lane with rage and long before your minions die... It puts you further into a disadvantage if you jungler cannot gank you because the enemy cleared your jungle.

MyJungleNoob1 votes

{quoted}

But... You get range from leashing... And if you do the sensible thing to start e, you can make it to lane with rage and long before your minions die... It puts you further into a disadvantage if you jungler cannot gank you because the enemy cleared your jungle.

By the time I get to lane some of the rage is gone. Plus I get way more rage for killing a minion then to leash a Jungler that will probable never dank me. So I need to focus how to win lane on my own.

preternatural2 votes

i don't leash for jungle because it would make no difference anyway that jungler doesn't know wtf they're doing.

rujitra2 votes

Winning your lane doesn't mean shit. Winning the game does.

MyJungleNoob1 votes

{quoted}

Winning your lane doesn't mean shit. Winning the game does. How you gonna win game if your jungler falls behind so safest bet is to just focus on your own play. This is solo que you carry alone.

preternatural2 votes

junglers who want to start top side with a solo leash, don't do it, I've seen too many of you now to play that game.

Sirsir1 votes

I had a jungler recently forced Darius to leash him, and stole his buff with passive. He RQ'd.

This game is a decade old and people still don't know to manage dot leashes? Or Zyra plant?

You're not losing anything by leashing if you do it right. You don't have to stick with him till the camp is dead, hit it a few times and walk away. The rage you get from leash is barely lower than the rage you'd get by smacking the wave the moment it shows.

Also please learn what a comma is and use them... Can't tell where one of your thoughts ends and the other begins. Makes you harder to understand

Tr4shB4NSYST3M1 votes

As a jungler who also plays top sometimes I understand this completely, early lane priority in top as well as getting level 2 first if possible is very impactful, if my toplaner is in a matchup that can swing either way and Im on red side (I always start red buff into full clear redside for lvl 3 off 3 camps) I will solo red to start.

Thing is jungle has been nerfed so many times that Mostly I'd rather let my solo laner have priority to start off the lane phase rather than a little extra hp starting my 1st clear. Just watch for an invade with me til 120-125

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