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You're doing the same mistake Blizzard did

Bears eat people··42 votes·2,650 views

inb4 sorry for my English.

Blizzard tried so hard to invite and involve new players to the World of Warcraft so they waste entire game except raids and make everything simple for newbies. The logic was about "it's so hard for newbie to do X, Y,Z so we throw away these aspect of the game, made ability prunning and now fresh player can easy to lvl up in 5 days not even take any care about content and get to LFR fast". Blizzarrd absolutely destroyed world pvp as it was "toxic" for new players. Blizzard absolutely didn't care about their existing players who was in love with game. Many years passed, and as a result a lot of old players feels betrayed for a, actually, non-existing group of players ("newbies") and then old and loyal players just left the game completely but there is no new players come to the WoW because, you know, they don't exists. I as a hardcore player with 21k achievment points has a lot of players in my WoW roster. Non of them play WoW anymore. Russian PvP community is completely destroyed and the same thing with every region.

Funny thing Blizzard is trying to e-sports nowadays.

You know why blizzard's focus no newbies didn't work? Because they think atm that WoW is cool. It's hype. So many people wants to play WoW, but, what a shame, game is too hard for them! So they simplify the game. Where was new players? Why the only result they got was just losing subscriptions so much so they stop publishing them? Because WoW wasn't cool anymore. WoW wasn't hype anymore. Everyone who wants to play WoW already plays WoW. For a new generation of players WoW is "uhm no I have real life".

Same will happens with LoL. _LoL is not cool _anymore. It's not hot hype or anything else. You can rely only on your existing player base. They don't like emotes. They don't want to play LFT oh I'm sorry URF instead of the game the love before. Don't even try to focus on new players and don't ruin entire game for a playerbase which is less than 0.05% of overall.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

ty for your attention!

32 Comments

archerno123 votes

This is fallacy. WOW is still alive due to all those things Blizzard did. WoW is still thriving as MMO RPG genre where no other game does. And thats a lot to say considering they use subscription model in time where most games are F2P. Wow is 13 years old game, its expected that old players quit. If they started playing when they were 15,16, now they would be close to 30 years old. Busy with their children, jobs... WoW survived thanks to Blizzard actions.

13 years old game thats still dominating its genre is something to be proud of.

Best princess EU8 votes

not only this, but the entire post also didn't make sense

this dude was just trolling

xJLx MCHammer3 votes

{quoted}

This is fallacy. WOW is still alive due to all those things Blizzard did. WoW is still thriving as MMO RPG genre where no other game does. And thats a lot to say considering they use subscription model in time where most games are F2P. Wow is 13 years old game, its expected that old players quit. If they started playing when they were 15,16, now they would be close to 30 years old. Busy with their children, jobs... WoW survived thanks to Blizzard actions.

13 years old game thats still dominating its genre is something to be proud of.

It's thriving but to act as if the subs are up is a lie

archerno16 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbsYNKAe,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-09-02T18:43:23.518+0000)

It's thriving but to act as if the subs are up is a lie

They arent on level of cataclysm when it had 12m subs, but its still 50x higher than next MMO RPG and Legion has more than Vanilla and TBC ever had. Only Wotlk and early Cata beat Legion

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Wait for real?

archerno11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbsYNKAe,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-03T13:38:18.503+0000)

Wait for real?

Well, noone knows for sure but there was "slip up" that Legion was at 10m subs.Vanilla peaked at around 8m. TBC went up to 11m before WOTLK release. Late WOTLK and CATA were at 12m. Wod brought it back to 10m subs but dropped to 5m due to lack of content (it had least amount of raids in all expansions). Also MOP was between 7 and 10m. I mean, people have been saying how wow is dying since introduction of Heirlooms and Dungeon Finder in early WOTLK.

Simple fact is that WOW is Subscription based game, thats only available on PC and is MMORPG. New generation of gamers prefer consoles. Prefer shooter games. And they dont really like open world MMO RPG games. People of my generation just refuse to accept that they arent targetted playerbase anymore by gaming companies. Same with music. You have people in their 30s grudge about music today, not realizing that they arent targetted audience.

deadlychuck1 votes

These numbers are based on expansion quarter numbers though.

WoD jumped back up to 10m subs on release, before rapidly falling back down to less than 7m (some people estimated that it dipped to as low as 4m). Same applied to Legion, it brought back people many of which burned out quickly on the changed game design, that they found less satisfying, again resulting in a rapid decline after release. WotLK was the last expansion which ended with more players than it started.

People in their mid 20s - early 30s aren't the target demographics anymore of many games, but they are the first notable generation of gamers. The problem comes from games like WoW or League, which were designed with that generation in mind and use a continuous development cycle, changing fundamental aspects of a game, which the new generation doesn't fine appealing and betrays the generation which have invested time and money into the game. Over time, they end up deleting the game which the older generation enjoyed, in order to provide a game for a disinterested new generation.

It would've made more sense (in the long run) for blizzard, also applicable to riot, to target the 8-10m players who liked the old design, rather than changing the design to appeal to those extra 2-4m players that they picked up as they adjusted the design of the game in wotlk era. A lot of WoW players, had jobs and kids even back in TBC, but if the game feels worth it, they plan around being able play. If they want to attract the next generation of gamers, then it would make more sense to start development on a new game, rather than changing the old game. It can be better tailored for the new players, without betraying the old players.

Something interesting about the sub charts of wow, is that if you watch it's growth, it's very gradual. Even upon expansion releases, you don't see a very large jump in players. 7.7m Players before BC, 8m after release. ~10.8m before WotLk ~11.2 after release. Yet then you start looking at the decaying numbers and what you find are massive jumps around releases. ~8.2m pre MoP, 10m on release. 7.5m pre WoD, 10m on release (mind you the marketing for WoD was borderline false advertising :P).

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

I can't tell you HOW MANY i know who are 30+ sometimes around 60 who are still playing WoW, SW:Tor etc. Just because a lot of people have poor time management, doesn't mean that others don't. Players quit because they get bored of the game or don't like the direction the game goes.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

I can't tell you HOW MANY i know who are 30+ sometimes around 60 who are still playing WoW, SW:Tor etc. Just because a lot of people have poor time management, doesn't mean that others don't. Players quit because they get bored of the game or don't like the direction the game goes.

There are some, i know. But i also know hundreds of people from my old guilds that stopped playing video games completely because they got kids, careers... What direction? While i agree that PVP is worse than it was, everything else is far better. Quests are better, lore is better, raids are better, there is way more to do, leveling isnt monotonous and full of pointless grind. Raids are welcoming for everyone now. Compare it to Vanilla for example. Bugged as fuck raids, took age to get 40 people, managing it was hell. Dungeons are far better. Before u had to look for people for hour and more. Then u needed to travel all the way there and if someone leaves u have to go back. There werent dungeon maps, dungeons were hard to navigate, took u more to find way than to kill stuff. Now there is something for everyone. Hardcore and casual alike.

Every game that tried to copy Vanilla WoWs pattern flopped miserably. Its just nostalgia.

Skins Project1 votes

League is 18 years now isn't it?

Idk

just felt like bringing it up.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skins Project,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbsYNKAe,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2017-09-03T09:54:45.544+0000)

League is 18 years now isn't it?

Idk

just felt like bringing it up.

I don't think even the original Dota dates that back.

Unless you meant 8 years, but had a typo. League is about that old.

Ahristocats1 votes

yep, original dota (like the real first attempt) was in 2004

Skins Project1 votes

ma bad 8, idk why i said 18

I Love Thresh1 votes

{quoted}

This is fallacy. WOW is still alive due to all those things Blizzard did. WoW is still thriving as MMO RPG genre where no other game does. And thats a lot to say considering they use subscription model in time where most games are F2P. Wow is 13 years old game, its expected that old players quit. If they started playing when they were 15,16, now they would be close to 30 years old. Busy with their children, jobs... WoW survived thanks to Blizzard actions.

13 years old game thats still dominating its genre is something to be proud of.

Have you heard of FF14?

archerno11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mika Jougasaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbsYNKAe,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2017-09-03T17:16:21.448+0000)

Have you heard of FF14?

Of course. And according to Final fantasy official statistics it has 464995 active players. Thats 465k. If we say Legion has more population than WOD, which noone argues it does, and say it has 8m players, even tho it might have more. That means if 90% of players quit wow now, at once, it will still have more players than FF14. Whats your point?

KokalePoika11 votes

Riot is just trying to make the game more friendly and easier towards new gamers who aren't willing to spent so much time as the people who have been playing the game for a long time. This is what is killing my interest towards the game..

DragonShea4 votes

Ghostcrawler, I swear if he has something to do with this, I will write a personal letter to riot, telling them to reel his control back or fire him.

But right now, making the game easy for people while forcing themselves on the e-sport stage is retarded. these things have to come organically and if they tryhard to cater to low level players and pro players. they are gonna waste their on a minority that will stay, while losing out on the majority of both loyal and newbie players that will leave because of disgust and newbie reasons respectively.

Rebonack4 votes

I just want Dominion back. [cass-cry]

7377063 votes

Have to agree with you on this one sadly...

Darkdemon6533 votes

In what way are the changes Riot is making catering toward casual players?

GayFluffyUnicorn8 votes

Shortening game times, dumbing down mechanics like removing the muramana toggle bc a lot of players didn't use it correctly (was their actual reasoning behind it), adding jungle timers to make the game easier, hypermobility, less vision to force kills and snowballs, all the damage and cdr creep. All those things they ALREADY DID now on top of copying the Hots/overwatch model, basically removing the grind in the game which i have no opinion of actually bc it has its pros and cons but the reason behind it should be pretty clear. Depending on how the rune/mastery system works out they take out a lot of complexity and experimantation from the game to make it easier for casual players etc.

Darkdemon6534 votes

{quoted}

Shortening game times dumbing down mechanics like removing the muramana toggle adding jungle timers to make the game easier hypermobility less vision to force kills and snowballs all the damage and cdr creep new runes system

  • I'm not sure I'd consider that as casualizing the game. All it really means if someone have, say, 40 minutes, that person can safely queue up
  • That was certainly a bad change, but the mechanics in general have been getting more complicated
  • OK
  • Not casualization
  • Not casualization
  • Not casualization
  • There is absolutely no complexity in the current rune and mastery system and there's very little customization. It certainly may get worse (though I think it's unlikely), but it's absurd to say that it's definitely going to get worse
LordGeovanni7 votes

hypermobility is casualization because then mobility is always up and people playing squishy champions have nothing to fear because they can get out of every situation and unless situations fall upon them rapidly within half a second -3 seconds they always have an escape pushing out less mobile characters or super short ranged characters out of viability.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Can some one say Nexon x Maplestory

WoonStruck2 votes

To be fair, that was a combination of both casualization and p2w incentives.

All went downhill after Big Bang.

LordGeovanni2 votes

I meant big bang specifically lowering of Job Advancement levels and Re structuring of the map also eaiser mobs but not that as much if anything they should have made a path to the six paths cross way and removed the the other entracnes to sleepy wood

dont trust girls1 votes

Yes. Lets compare LoL to WoW. Games that are completely different. LoL is a game that is impossible to cater to new players in - because you're always going to be against other players. It's always pvp - skill vs skill. If you're better you climb and if not then you don't

deadlychuck1 votes

If you're better you climb and if not then you don't.

Yes, it's always PvP, but that doesn't mean that it's always competitive. A lot of people play almost exclusively normals. Even long term players.

dont trust girls1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it's always PvP, but that doesn't mean that it's always competitive. A lot of people play almost exclusively normals. Even long term players.

Still would be a skill vs skill matchup lol

deadlychuck1 votes

Agreed, but it's look at it from the subjective prospective. You've got a very similar system to WoW for normals.

Instead of a skill vs skill matchup, you've got a skill vs skillcheck system, but from any given player's prospective it's still a skill vs skillcheck. The difference being that league's skillcheck is determined by other players instead of the design of the game.

Now in wow, gear acts as a intermediate method, by which you can reduce the necessary skill to overcome a skill check, but in league, normal's softer MMR system mimics the feel of the gearing system, but condenses the numerical power growth, into mechanical practice. It's like practicing a boss fight on a lower difficulty, until you can beat it on a higher difficulty. As opposed to fighting weaker enemies, until you get the gear to offset your inability to beat the higher difficulty boss.

I mean, this is the same direction wow took with different difficulties of the same raid, rather than raids of different difficulties.

deadlychuck1 votes

Idk when it became accepted that "noob traps" are inherently bad.

Noob Trap: A build/decision/approach to how you play, which isn't meta and doesn't have the highest average power.

These noob traps are what allow the game to evolve. The invested long term players get stuck in their ways, they get use to playing a specific way. So for the game to evolve naturally, it has to be done through these "noob traps" with new or adventurous players, exploring the depths of how to make such a strategy/approach work. Eventually it might integrate into the old system (creating a new viable play style) or it will overshadow the old one and "break the meta".

Riot has systematically removed this from their game, by exaggerating the disparity between optimal (meta) and non-optimal (noob trap) power.

Riot wants complete control over how their game evolves, but they don't have the capacity to make that evolution stable and encompassing, like a naturally evolved change in meta would need to be, which will eventually drive players away from the game and they've already reached their plateau of player interest.

AleksaTeemo1 votes

At least before,you did not have adcs that right click you 2 times(twitch tristana) with ardent cester+locket+knights wow+redemption to never die.You didnt have syndra pressing R and killing squishy but actually having need to hit full combo and R to kill you etc.

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