F U riot

Exta5y·Jul 27, 2015·5 votes·2,670 views

For not implementing a dodge on Promos. Why do I have to loose 3x my series promos bc of trolls feeders and duos. WHy do I have to waste 30-40min fighting my ass off to try and carry so that these player can troll away. The better part is that my win ratio is 53% in silver 2 and with my main i have a 56% win rate adn 3.5 k/d/a ( naut support). SO why the fuck havent you done anything yet. You are quick to chat ban and game ban on ragers. Yet these trolls feeders and duo shit run rampage. As long as theydont say a negative word they win and I have to keep putting up with this shit. Get your shit otgether fucking noobs

18 Comments

jaymc1130Jul 27, 20155 votes

Calm down. First.

I will help you now.

The most important thing to take away from the following information I give you is that LP is not important in any way, shape, or form below diamond level play. At all. MMR is important. Dodges only cost you LP, not MMR and this has been true since the introduction of the League system in season 3. Thus, dodging, in essence costs you nothing but wait time. You can use this to your advantage. This is the most important thing to take away from what I tell you.

Now, here is the thing about ranked and the ranked system. The system is atrociously flawed at lower levels of play and does not (unlike many might lead you to believe) rank players according to the level of skill. This is because the system does not use any individual skill datapoints when making its determinations. This is important to know because it means that for all levels of play below diamond the system is ineffective at performing its sole function. This is NOT an excuse for the inability to climb! The system is broken and thus, it can be abused. There are several ways to do so. The sad fact of the matter is that since the ELO system was imported from chess (that's right chess, and individual on individual competition, not a team game) the system is more prone to ranking players according to the "luck" or "chance" factor of who you happened to get paired with. Since matchmaking takes into account no skill reference points, matchmaking will often pair players poorly since the level of variance for two players with identical MMR in low elo can be as wide as the difference between a silver and a diamond. Part of climbing is understanding the system and how to combat the luck factor in addition to your skill as a player, a team organizer, and a diplomat. All of these skills will be required to reach an accurate ranking.

Lets discuss some ways to avoid the luck factor. The first thing you should do in every champion select lobby is op.gg your teammates. Find out what they are good at. What they are bad at. If a player is playing a champ for the first time ever in ranked, that's a red flag. Its unlikely to go well. If you see a pair of players who always duo and have a less than 60% win rate, this is a red flag. Its unlikely to go well. If you see a player on a crazy loss streak that player is likely tilted. Its unlikely to go well. You getting the picture? We have a tool in place in addition to using this op.gg information that can help you combat the luck factor of being paired badly in these scenarios. It is called the dodge option. Use it. But you are in promos? Doesn't matter, use it. Lp, as stated before means absolutely nothing in low level play. Only MMR. MMR is determined primarily by win rate, MMR determines LP gains and losses. Thus, a higher MMR will give you increased LP gains. It is best to focus exclusively on win rate in low level play and work on improving it to increase MMR and thus gain more LP per win. More LP per win means faster climbing. In some situations, if your MMR is MUCH higher than the average of the division you are playing in, AND you are on a win streak it is even possible to SKIP past promos entirely. Meaning the system will promote you without you having to even play in promo matches.

Additionally, when you reach promotional matches the system applies a handicap to your team for the match and you will be matched with "more skilled" opponents with higher MMR and with "less skilled" teammates of dramatically lower MMR. The system does this as an attempt to make you "earn" the promotion. There is another scenario where this also happens. When you duo. Your team will also be handicapped. Now, when in promos it is advisable to ALWAYS duo with a partner since you are already handicapped. This decreases the likelihood of you getting a troll on your team, gives you a player you are already coordinated with and have chemistry with, which is an advantage if the match is played. Also, if your duo is not in promotions themselves then guess what you can do? You can have them dodge for you and you get to STAY in promos! This also helps to combat the luck factor. If you get trolled as a singleton in promos its advisable to still dodge rather than play, its not worth it to lose MMR in an auto loss situation, and one win will get you right back into promos. Even if you dodge twice in a row most likely. However, it is still best to use a duo in promo series, since you can use their dodge as a free "get out of jail" card.

All the best of luck on the fields of justice summoner!

Exta5yJul 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Calm down. First.

I will help you now.

The most important thing to take away from the following information I give you is that LP is not important in any way, shape, or form below diamond level play. At all. MMR is important. Dodges only cost you LP, not MMR and this has been true since the introduction of the League system in season 3. Thus, dodging, in essence costs you nothing but wait time. You can use this to your advantage. This is the most important thing to take away from what I tell you.

Now, here is the thing about ranked and the ranked system. The system is atrociously flawed at lower levels of play and does not (unlike many might lead you to believe) rank players according to the level of skill. This is because the system does not use any individual skill datapoints when making its determinations. This is important to know because it means that for all levels of play below diamond the system is ineffective at performing its sole function. This is NOT an excuse for the inability to climb! The system is broken and thus, it can be abused. There are several ways to do so. The sad fact of the matter is that since the ELO system was imported from chess (that's right chess, and individual on individual competition, not a team game) the system is more prone to ranking players according to the "luck" or "chance" factor of who you happened to get paired with. Since matchmaking takes into account no skill reference points, matchmaking will often pair players poorly since the level of variance for two players with identical MMR in low elo can be as wide as the difference between a silver and a diamond. Part of climbing is understanding the system and how to combat the luck factor in addition to your skill as a player, a team organizer, and a diplomat. All of these skills will be required to reach an accurate ranking.

Lets discuss some ways to avoid the luck factor. The first thing you should do in every champion select lobby is op.gg your teammates. Find out what they are good at. What they are bad at. If a player is playing a champ for the first time ever in ranked, that's a red flag. Its unlikely to go well. If you see a pair of players who always duo and have a less than 60% win rate, this is a red flag. Its unlikely to go well. If you see a player on a crazy loss streak that player is likely tilted. Its unlikely to go well. You getting the picture? We have a tool in place in addition to using this op.gg information that can help you combat the luck factor of being paired badly in these scenarios. It is called the dodge option. Use it. But you are in promos? Doesn't matter, use it. Lp, as stated before means absolutely nothing in low level play. Only MMR. MMR is determined primarily by win rate, MMR determines LP gains and losses. Thus, a higher MMR will give you increased LP gains. It is best to focus exclusively on win rate in low level play and work on improving it to increase MMR and thus gain more LP per win. More LP per win means faster climbing. In some situations, if your MMR is MUCH higher than the average of the division you are playing in, AND you are on a win streak it is even possible to SKIP past promos entirely. Meaning the system will promote you without you having to even play in promo matches.

Additionally, when you reach promotional matches the system applies a handicap to your team for the match and you will be matched with "more skilled" opponents with higher MMR and with "less skilled" teammates of dramatically lower MMR. The system does this as an attempt to make you "earn" the promotion. There is another scenario where this also happens. When you duo. Your team will also be handicapped. Now, when in promos it is advisable to ALWAYS duo with a partner since you are already handicapped. This decreases the likelihood of you getting a troll on your team, gives you a player you are already coordinated with and have chemistry with, which is an advantage if the match is played. Also, if your duo is not in promotions themselves then guess what you can do? You can have them dodge for you and you get to STAY in promos! This also helps to combat the luck factor. If you get trolled as a singleton in promos its advisable to still dodge rather than play, its not worth it to lose MMR in an auto loss situation, and one win will get you right back into promos. Even if you dodge twice in a row most likely. However, it is still best to use a duo in promo series, since you can use their dodge as a free "get out of jail" card.

All the best of luck on the fields of justice summoner!

Unfortunately dodging promos results in a lost of series. So i am fucked. I swear Im starting to hate mondays with the amount of troll children playing at this hour. Got another troll duo . picks zed jungle and feeds bc he couldnt go bot, while hes duo partner vayne afks at base. Sigh why why why

jaymc1130Jul 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately dodging promos results in a lost of series. So i am fucked. I swear Im starting to hate mondays with the amount of troll children playing at this hour. Got another troll duo . picks zed jungle and feeds bc he couldnt go bot, while hes duo partner vayne afks at base. Sigh why why why

Lol, reread the entire post. It does not matter if you dodge in promos and the promos get cancelled. It does not count as a loss in ranked record. It counts as a "loss" for the series, which doesn't even matter since all it really cost you was LP and some time. Getting back into the series after a dodge is as easy as winning one game.

Exta5yJul 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lol, reread the entire post. It does not matter if you dodge in promos and the promos get cancelled. It does not count as a loss in ranked record. It counts as a "loss" for the series, which doesn't even matter since all it really cost you was LP and some time. Getting back into the series after a dodge is as easy as winning one game.

Ok i will try it your way and see how it works. thanks again for the tip

jaymc1130Jul 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok i will try it your way and see how it works. thanks again for the tip

Any time mate, any time.

Ayame IsakiJul 27, 20151 votes

This is very interesting. I don't play ranked but I still appreciate the information here.

jaymc1130Jul 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UUK4IK2x,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-07-27T18:56:48.911+0000)

This is very interesting. I don't play ranked but I still appreciate the information here.

The MMR bit applies to norms too, should you desire to raise it. Promo part won't apply, but the rest of it does.

Ayame IsakiJul 27, 20151 votes

Good to know, thanks!

IceAtherineJul 30, 20151 votes

I'm rather curious about something, as you stated "MMR is determined primarily by win rate" what about the players KDA in the rank games? how are they calculated? are they calculated into the MMR as well or does it fall into another bracket of stuff ?

jaymc1130Jul 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm rather curious about something, as you stated "MMR is determined primarily by win rate" what about the players KDA in the rank games? how are they calculated? are they calculated into the MMR as well or does it fall into another bracket of stuff ?

Unfortunately kda would fall under the category of an individual skill metric, and this is in no way shape or form influential in determining a persons ranking. It is just one of many flaws with the current system. Eventually we will likely see some of that change. Champion mastery scores post game were introduced and the way they function is almost word for word a system I described way back in season 2 or 3 for a way to tie individual skill metrics into ones ranking. The second part of my post regarding that has not happened yet, but in time champion mastery scores post game could influence your mmr and LP gains and losses and we would finally have a player's individual performance in a game help determine his/her ranking. I believe is just a matter of time until we get that, particularly if we as a player base ask for it.

IceAtherineAug 1, 20151 votes

Mhm...understandable and thanks for replying :D but that basically sums up that fact that even in some situations that system cant tell and filter out the players that are trying hard to actually Improve and climb and the ones that are just trolling for fun or are just plain out bad / afk / flamers/ etc etc. since "KDA" falls under a different category.

jaymc1130Jul 29, 20152 votes

bumped.

jaymc1130Jul 27, 20151 votes

Just a bump for some visibility since this thread contains a kernel of wisdom many players would love to have be more readily accessible than merely being linked here from other threads.

Exta5yJul 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Just a bump for some visibility since this thread contains a kernel of wisdom many players would love to have be more readily accessible than merely being linked here from other threads.

Thanks to your advise, I was able to find someone of my same rank to duo with me. Which has been a great experience. I have noticed that my rage levels have greatly decreased as well as an increase in rank and winratio. Its very unfortunate that one must resort to duoing in order to climb. But having an extra player who listen to pings and warning is amazing. Before I would port back to base to see that my adc is trying to 1v2 the bot lane only to feed. This would piss me off. It doesnt take more than a 2 min top to port to base shop and run back. Thanks for the advise

jaymc1130Jul 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thanks to your advise, I was able to find someone of my same rank to duo with me. Which has been a great experience. I have noticed that my rage levels have greatly decreased as well as an increase in rank and winratio. Its very unfortunate that one must resort to duoing in order to climb. But having an extra player who listen to pings and warning is amazing. Before I would port back to base to see that my adc is trying to 1v2 the bot lane only to feed. This would piss me off. It doesnt take more than a 2 min top to port to base shop and run back. Thanks for the advise

Any time my man. Be careful with the duoing as you climb, the higher you go, the greater the significance of the handicap, and the more noticeable it will be. Once you start to hit gold range MMR it can be very tough as the system (while still flawed and inaccurate) is starting to become more accurate with the way it has ranked the individuals you are playing against. A good stat to check to see if you're duoing with some one is being effective is to make sure you maintain at least a 60% win rate when duoing with that player. Anything less than that and the handicap is starting to hurt your pairing too much as neither or even both of your are quite skilled enough to make up for. Best of luck on the Rift mate, and keep learning and striving to make improvements!

jaymc1130Jul 29, 20151 votes

A perfect example of how to use op.gg to find out when you have been paired poorly:

I was just in a lobby for my first game of the morning on a smurf and I got a first pick teemo who decided to ban Malz, Vi, and Maplhite. Those bans were already red flags, but then when I op.gg'd the guy I found this.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=chocolate+moses

There is no reason to play with this guy under any circumstances. Particularly when he was on a loss streak of teemo games at the time and first picked the most useless garbage champ in the game. Rather than suffer an auto loss, I just dodged! Thank goodness we have that option!